Think may need to change schedule but not sure how. Advice anyone?

[Fiona (Leah & Kians Mom)]

Hi Everyone,
Dd had been overall a pretty good sleeper  . We did have an issue about a month ago solved with walk in walk out. Now we have a few more, not really serious but I think I need to change something and I am not sure what. Here is our current schedule
7.30 Wake her (95% of the time)
12.30 Nap
14.30 Wake her ( again 95% of the time)
19.30 Bed

Lately she has been chatting for about 20 mins when she goes down for her nap, that's ok with me, but then I have to waken her. She is tired and rubbing her eyes by 7pm, we start wind down and getting ready for bed at 7.15, hard to wind down though as everything has become a game and she is in bed in her sleeping bag by 7.25 pm. Now she has started chatting at nighttime too and goes through her whole day though I do this with her at dinner. Don't really have a problem with this if it's not for too long but it's getting longer and longer and tonight it was almost an hour. Today I woke her from her nap at 2.20 as I thought this might have made a slight difference to her sleeping earlier.
Also she is now refusing to lie down for sleep time and wants to sit, if I tell her ok but Mommy has to go and do stuff she will ask me to sit on her bed, something I have never done. Tonight when I finally got her to lie down she was crying, I told her her dolly and teddy needed to sleep and would get a headache if she cried ( mean Mummy) and she proceeded to chat for an hour. I have also told her that she can sit up when Mommy leaves the room and sometimes this works.
Part of me thinks she needs more wake time but when if I have to wake her all the time? She doesn't appear to be overtired and is an extremely busy little girl all day long.
Dh wants me to keep her up later at night but I just cannot handle her being up later at night, especially as I am home alone a lot and I need the break from her in the evening.
Should I continue to shorten her nap a bit until we are down to 1.5 hours?
Any thoughts or ideas ? All greatly appreciated 
Fiona

[Harrisonsmummy]

Will someone tell me when we can stop the mental arithmetic over sleep patterns? (LOL) It drives me nuts! What time would she wake up in the am if left to her own devices? Could you let her sleep later, push nap later but shorter, then keep bedtime the same? So overall sleep stays more or less the same.

I also would stick to being firm with the messing around, they stop trying it on if they don't get anything from you, and after bedtime wind down etc, she's had her time - that's it - be firm and switch to "Mummy Time" - she'll stop any shenanigans! Tell her that it's x minutes to sleep time so she understands when times up and doesn't keep pushing the boundaries. A timer might help.

Just some thoughts off the top of my head! Actually i think when I read my posts I always sound a bit like a strict school teacher - but I guess I compensate for DH and the softer approach! H doesn't try it on so much with me as aresult - but then like you, I am at home most of the time and it would wind me up too much!

Justine

[Cari]

I hear you!  I am so sick of trying to figure out how much awake time before nap and after nap, and it seems like once you have it figured out they change on you, or one day it works and the next day it doesn't.  My daughter has been chatting lately before nap and bedtime ~ once she talked and played the whole nap time 2 1/2 hours.  By this time it was 3pm and she started to cry, so I just gave up on nap that day.  How old is your little one?  Mine is 18 months, and she to has been playing and jumping around in her room when we are supposed to be winding down for sleepytime.  I don't think she has any sleepy cues any more, or they are just really difficult to read.

Thanks for letting me vent.  Any advice or ideas would be greatly appreciated.  Here has been her schedule for the past few days.

7-7:30 wake up
12:30-1:00am nap (45min to 1.5hours, or sometimes none)
6:30-7:00pm bedtime (Sometimes doesn't fall asleep until 8:00pm)

[Gigismom]

fiona-

i would agree with harrison's mummy that maybe you should try waking her a bit earlier in the am and putting her for a nap a bit later, but shorter.  how long has she been doing this?  i find that sometimes my dd has weird sleep issues that don't really mean her schedule means tweaking.  they just appear, then disappear as suddenly. 

baileysmom-your schedule looks great too.  how long has your lo been doing this?

[Fiona (Leah & Kians Mom)]

Well tonight was the pits  she had a complete tantrum when I put her to bed and made her lie down, screaming, kicking I left and did walk in walk out a few times when she was desperately calling "Mammy Mammy", had to do the "drink of water" too, from crying, when I resettled her she tried so hard" Oh there's the wall  " and next time "Oh there's the hall  ". This took 15 mins in total then she was quiet for about 5 and then sang at the top of her voice until 8.25 so 5 mins longer than last night. Justine I was thinking of your "strictness" when I was doing it, but tbh am quite strict myself( compensate for dh).
Tbh I am not sure what time she would wake if left to her own devices, yest and today she was already awake at 7.25 though not chatting or anything and I think tomorrow she will be awake earlier as school starts, it's right under her window so there will be about 300 little boys running round the yard from 6.30 onwards.
If I pushed her nap time later and woke her at 2.30 yes this would shorten the nap, but it would still leave only 5 hours wake time before bed? Is this enough? I am honestly beginning to wonder if she is tired enough at 7.30? I don't mind her chatting too much at lunch time cos it's only about 20 mins but I think an hour is too long at night. If I woke her at 2.10 pm to start with and moved it back eventually to 2pm would an hour and about 10 mins be enough of a nap? It's hard to know what to do and I dont want to mess around too much, hopefully we wil be moving house next month so I worry already about the probs that may cause.
Lindsey she has been doing it for 15 days, and has gone from 20 mins chatting at night to an hour.
Justine I think I will stop worrying about her sleep when she goes to no nap, wakes up later in the morning and sleeps at 7.30  ( wishful thinking) and who knows by then I will prob have another little one to start the whole sleep worrying with all over again 
Fiona

[Gigismom]

how about just trying to put her to bed later at night, say 8 or 8:15 and see if that helps?  we recently moved gianna's bedtime to 8:30 because she seemed like she wasn't tired at her normal time of 8. 

but if you like/prefer her going to bed early, then i would say to try shortening the nap so she is more tired at bedtime.  it really sounds to me like she's just not tired.