Transitioning 3-4 hr , now with night wakings

[Zoey]

You sleep tight!

LOL - he is a stud muffin!!  LOL, must be all those baby push ups!!   

[waffler]

I'm sorry, I know I seem to be the most anxious mum out there who seems like she is clueless and has no idea what to do with her baby.

But. Today she refused the first nap, and only had 15m for 2nd nap, and 15m for catnap. I am keeping withthe 0700 wakings, keeping her up for 1h50-2h for the first nap, and then of course, have to play the day by ear. She seems to be in a pattern of finalling dropping off 9-10pm, and sleeping thru the nite so for that i'm thankful. But she is so o/t during the day, and i'm at a loss of how to target this short napping. I don't wnt to post on the naps site as i think i will confuse everyone so just want to stick to this one as it has my (long) history on it. This is day 6 of not using patshush as a prop, as in, walking out the room. I know it's sunday and i apologise for intruding 

[Zoey]

This is day 6 of not using patshush as a prop, as in, walking out the room

By this you mean, putting her down after her wind down with kisses and cuddles and leaving - not tending to a mantra, fuss or whine and waiting until she cries properly before going back to her immediately and pat/shhing (your variation) until settling before leaving again - right?   Be careful how you word what your doing, you wouldn't want anyone thinking you are letting her CIO - and I know you would never leave Mira alone to cry it out!

You're not intruding ever!  You surely aren't cluless either.  Anxious maybe, but we all are - I might not show it but I am scared to death inside.   https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=65443.0  - here read this, it's pretty uplifting.  You aren't alone my dear!

Did you know that babies learn to organize nighttime sleep from 0-3 months and daytime sleep from 3-6 months. Struggles with naps are largely a developmental issue and most find their baby improves around 6 months.  Before 6 months we can help a baby learn to nap by using methods like shush pat, wake to sleep, pu/pd etc.  It is incredibly common and normal to struggle with naps and not nighttime.  You aren't alone, and it will get better.

Did rinajack offer anything that could help with your routine/indep sleep?

Before you put her down for the first nap, does she seems sleepy?  Is she going down easier since you began weaning the prop?  I am glad you joined the 45m nap support thread - perhaps they can offer some insight.  Sometimes it helps too to take a break from everything for a bit and watch baby, putting her down when she seems sleepy, - still not going into using props etc - but more following her lead than the clock and note what she does when, and making a routine around that.  Remember Easy is an idea of a sequence of event, Eat, play, sleep.  Logically baby needs to be up a certain amount of time before they will need to take a good nap to recharge - this is what you have to figure out, what that amount is.  What we suggest is just an average. 

All in all, she is sleeping through the night and this is a fantastic thing and it's all because of you and your teaching her that she CAN fall back to sleep when she wakes briefly all by herself!  So, by her sleeping through the night, this tells you she is able to re-settle if needed.  Many mums would give their right arm for that LOL.  So, even though its bad, it could be worse right?  I think it's in the routine - which is something you are going to have to work with since you know her and can see her sleepy cues and all that stuff. 

Lastly if you have a day of poor naps, you kind of have to try an get one somehow.  Remember your catnap is free, so if she napped reall ybad all day, start that nap a bit early and do what you can to help her fall to sleep.  Will she sleep in the swing, the car, the stroller, the bouncey seat? 

Zoey

[waffler]

Hi - first, yes, do the whole routine, kiss, cuddle, swaddle, "see ya later 'gator" talk lights out then leave - and put ear to door waiting for that yell! Dont leave her to CIO she's my precious babygirl i want to be with her when she cries

Today playing it more by ear watching sleep cues. She cries as soon as i switch lights out. then when the cries escalate, go in, and she goes down - but woke in 5-10mins three times. She is sleeping now. Mind boggling!

And to make things all that more interesting, we are going to the docs tomorrow for her immunisation jabs so thats going to make her all touchy  But if all is okay, and if things aren't improving with her naps .. then... i think it's time for the big PU/PD... would you agree?

And yes, i know that i have been lucky inthe last 3 wks that she wakes at most once a night, and normally sleeps thru till 7, aftger waking for a feed anytime between 9-11. And i bet as soon as the naps are sorted out she'll start waking LOL

Side note - yday after her horrible naps, her bedtime routine was brought a bit earlier at 5.15 (massage bath feed cuddle books), and she did go down to sleep quite well, by 6.20. Woke again10m later, but was down again by 7.15.  I literally had to hold her hands down during the jolts though, as she was so o/t. I know that it may become a prop if used consistently but figured she needed some help last night. She woke twice after an hour each, i fed her at the 2nd waking, then she was down from 10-7.

(and i do know about the 0-3 4-6 months sleep developing. I've read books by Karp, Sears, Pantley, Ford, Weissbluth, Mindell, Leach and of course, Hogg No time for other books at all!)

[Zoey]

Wow all those books eh?  LOL

Well, if you can be 100% consistant and not cave and use your breast to soothe, and you can deal with the HELLA crying - then sure give it a go.  But, like I said before - it isn't easy, or fast.     We suggest commiting 2 weeks to pupd and that means being home for all sleeps so you can teach.  If you are completely commited and do it correctly it shouldnt take that long - but if you start you have to be willing to go the long haul with my cheerleading butt beside you!

Overtired babies always need a bit more help, yup.  10-7pm rocks!  Awesome! 

You may not wanna start pupd right after her shots if she gets ouchy from them - no pupd for babies in pain cause we don't put expectations on babies in pain.  In preparation, maybe have a read of all those posts in the pupd Faq - if you haven't already of course.

Have a great night/day?  LOL
Zoey

[waffler]

Bit of a problem. Weighed her on Monday, and in a month she has put on hardly ANY weight I'm not sure why, but i think part reason is that she used to have 2 feeds or so a night. Now she sleeps thru it's a prob.  So my mission right now is to help her gain some weight. I'm topping up her feeds in the day with EBM and also feeding her at night now, and actually, "willing" her to wake up so i can feed her.

Her naps are a bit better, at least we are back to 45m nap and yday she slept 1h20m after EBM top up. I'm going to see how things progress over the next few days, and am not going to jump to pupd but just stick with what we are currently doing. Also she has just been vaccinated so giving her some TLC.

I'll be back though..

[Zoey]

   Good Luck!

[waffler]

I'm ba-ack! Didja miss me? 

Anyway. think DD is gonna be ok with her weight, pede is not worried, and she is thriving etc.

I'm afraid to say, for the last 2 wks, we've done the whole "put in cot and walk out hoping she'd settle" and she hasn't. Not once. Always have to go in. And a couple of times managed to get her to sleep without picking up. And sometimes I get SOO close. But most of the time, she is beside herself all upset so i have to pick up to sing lullaby - that seems to be the ONLY thing that works. And of course, that is now the prop du jour!

I'm tired. I So want her to be able to go to sleep on her own. Do you think i shld tackle pu/pd now? I also think i shld start it and be the one to do it. I am so determined to make it work. And i am worried about inconsistencies if someone else does it along with me. I'm expecting it to be a hard 2 wks, with very little sleep for me, and a lot of heartache. But that is a small price to pay for her to be able to go to sleep on her own.

She still needs to be swaddled. She protests, but that seems to be the thing that will keep her arms from flailing. I've tried to let her suck, but it just doesnt seem to SOOTHE her. She doesnt suck her thumbs, more like fingers and sometimes pokes her eyes doing it.

So, tell me, is it "time" for pu/pd? Looking forward to hearing what u think.. "You're my only hope obi-wan"....

[Zoey]

Hello there!

I'm afraid to say, for the last 2 wks, we've done the whole "put in cot and walk out hoping she'd settle" and she hasn't. Not once. Always have to go in. And a couple of times managed to get her to sleep without picking up. And sometimes I get SOO close. But most of the time, she is beside herself all upset so i have to pick up to sing lullaby - that seems to be the ONLY thing that works.

Read this.  I am not sure how you are going to do pupd if you think the only way she can settle is to pick her up and sing a lullaby?  Now, don't get me wrong, I am all for pupd for the right situation.  I am not for babies crying for no reason.  I ask you the same question I did before you began topping off before naps - Can you not cave in, for as long as it takes, for as many pick ups that it takes, for however long it takes?  Can you handle her crying/screaming?  Any crying that she has done with pat/shh - could be MILD compared to how it may be with PUPD, in my experience.  There is no picking up and singing or Bfing or anything like that.  Can you do that?

If the answer is yes, the give it a go.  If you don't think you can deal with her crying, or having to do pupd at 4am for as long as it takes for her to go to sleep - then don't begin.  Don't begin unless you can be consistent, commited, until she learns. 

I don't mean to be a hard-butt - I am just taking our history here, and my experience with pupd and trying to make sure you are jumping into something you can't handle.  I don't want your baby girl to cry for nothing, and I don't want you to feel like you failed.  Before you do any pupd - I suggest reading through some of the posts over there to get an idea of how not quick, how not easy this tool is.  Also read through the Faq we have put together - especially this one:  https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=36950.0

If you think this is something you can do and stick with through the good, the bad, and the ugly - then go post.  If not, then I wouldn't start it.  This is my honest no suger-coating opinion, for what's its worth!

Love,
Zoey

[waffler]

Hi zoey

I dont need sugar coating advice (i'm on a diet  ) , so thanks I'm glad you put all that out there. I thought about it, and tonight took me 2hrs to get her to sleep. y'know, the reason i pick her up and sing a lullaby is that i feel it's "okay" to do so, BECAUSE i'm not doing pu/pd - if that makes sense. I'm still trying to find the thing that calms her, and while she's in her cot, on any one occasion, it can be 3-4 things that calm her. What works now wont necessarily work in 20mins.

I just feel that pu/pd may be necessary (along with any calming in her cot) because i've been doing this current thing for over a wk. Sometimes it's good, most of the time its bad. The nights are always worse. And I know pu/pd is a huge commitment, and its hard (i read the pupd posts daily ..) and its something i've hoped to avoid. But saying that - i am prepared for the crying/screaming.

u have been remarkably patient with me, thanks  . If I need to do it, i plan to start on monday, no point waiting for the w/e as i dont want to involve DH anyway - he can be there to give me a back and foot rub instead... I dream of posting on the "post your success story here" and getting Mira in the "Independant Sleeper" hall of fame. Oh also, i believe pupd WILL work because, well because I have to  believe it will . I refuse to believe that my DD cant sleep on her own. And I've failed at the other methods, so i will have to suck it up and do the hard yards for her.

[Zoey]

Ok then, do you want my help? 

[waffler]

Hmm...lemme see..... do i want your help.... hmmmm...

HELL YEA! We're a team, you me mira and owen!

[Zoey]

LOL LOL!    I was just making sure!

Ok, do you wanna stay here, or move to the PUPD board - you may get more advice and opinions and hugs with a new thread because sometimes when they get this long people assume we are chatting about the weather and don't tend to read lol.  You are going to need some hugs!  It's so up to you though! 

I have to get Owen up, I'll be back at the PM naptime lol

Love,
Zoe

[waffler]

how i WISH we were only chatting about the weather!! I"ll start a new thread but post this link on.

Is that owen's halloween costume??? adorable