12 month old - Night wakings & props?

[bubbabunch]

We have successfully transitioned our son from our bed into his crib.   

My dh and I have been so happy that we may have did some accidental parenting.  We feel bad that we made the traumatic move into the crib and worked him into a different schedule, sleeping earlier (moved sleep time from 8:30 to 7:30pm), that we maybe doing too much comforting.  When our DS cries, we do PD and WO/WI for about 10 minutes, and then if he's still crying a lot then we do PD and we pat him and either sing or shsh him.  When he gets up at night (his crib is in our room), I usually feed him twice (about every 4 hours he's still feeding), and then do this pat and sing routine the other times.  Is it wrong to be doing that?  Is this going to become a prop? 

[bubbabunch]

Can someone let me know if my comforting will become a prop?  And, should I be doing this?  I'm going to start night number 8 on the WO/WI modified method and if what I'm doing is wrong, I'd like to know so that I don't do more accidental parenting.  It took us 1 year to get him out of the bed, and it took a lot determination and loss of sleep to only nurse him twice a night.  Before, I would nurse him at every night waking, which was about 3-4 times.  Ideally, I'd like to get it to where I can put him in the crib and walkout.  Right now, we're at the put him in the crib and stay and comfort him stage.  I have started a bed time routine of:
6:30 pm - Eat
7:00 pm - Bath
7:10 pm - Read two books
7:30 pm - Nurse
7:45 pm - Start WO/WI method with PD

[Florencia]

It is not very clear for me when you say you're comforting him. Does that mean you actually take him out of his crib? IT is really important for wi/wo to succeed that you only do this, that is wi pat/shs briefly and wo immediatly. If you stay in the room for longer than the count of 5 and sing, pat, cuddle then it becomes a different method than wi/wo and it certainly can interfere with the process becoming a prop to get rid of.

As for the 2 feeds in the night, I'm not very sure that he's needing them so perhaps that is a prop too. Be sure he's getting enough calories during the day and evaluate if you can get rid of at least one of them. Since he gets to be fed in the middle of the night it is very likely that he expects it every other waking, hence his difficulty for settling. It is not very clear to him the message that sleep time is for sleep so he might be expecting more on his wakings.

I hope I made some sense and let me know what do you think of this. Congrats on the huge progress you've made so far! keep consistant and it will be over soon!

[bubbabunch]

I comfort him by patting him and singing to him while he lays in the crib.  I'll have to work on doing the WI briefly and learn to wo after about 5 seconds.  I've done a lot of accidental parenting and I really don't want to make another mistake. 

How can I figure out how much calories he needs?  And, if my feedings are becoming props?  My DS takes in about 14 oz. of breastmilk during the day from 8 am - 5 pm while he's at the sitters, and he also eats breakfast - fruit and rice cereal, and lunch - vegetables and rice crackers.  And, then when I pick him up I normally feed him around 5:30-6:00 pm - he eats meat and crackers.  And, then right before I put him in his crib, I nurse him for about 10-15 minutes, this happens at about 7:15-7:30 pm.  And, then he gets up to be nursed at 11:00 pm and 4:00 am.  My DH gets up 2 other times during the night but since we share the bedroom, I do the PD method.  He will normally cry and then put himself back to sleep after about 5-10 minutes.

I really appreciate your help and advice.  The baby whisperer board has been great!  I really enjoy reading the board and learning from all the other parents out there 

[Pimento]

Generally speaking everything i have read says that about 12-14oz milk per day, including that used on cereal and in cooking is plenty by this age.  They're all different but if it helps, here's my LO's routine and she's 1 year old tomorrow:

7am ish - 6oz bottle cows milk
8am ish - half a weetabix or redibrek with milk and 1oz friut and about half a slice of toast and butter
11 ish - snack of rice cake or raisins etc.
12 - Lunch 3 oz savoury and 1 and 1/2 oz fruit
12.30 - Nap - anything from one hour to two and a half hours!
3ish - snack as above
5.40 - Tea as per lunch
6.15 - Bath and stories
6.45 - 7oz bottle cows milk
7.00 - put in cot awake.

Good luck with everything and I HTH.
x

[Florencia]

The amount of calories needed depends on what expert you're reading LOL. Dr. Paula mentions about 16 oz as a maximum, the girl who wrote Super Baby Food ranks from 16 to 24. Each toddler is different and how you know he's getting enough during the day is by charting his growth, development and weigh gaining. Pediatrician should help you there.

From an amateur point of view, it looks to me that he's taking enough food/drinks during daytime to keep him going through the night so he actually doesn't need the night feeds. I'd recommend cutting the 11 pm and 4 am feeds and in case you're hesitant about it, nurse him for longer before bed (instead of 15 mins, try 20 or 25 if he'd have it).

I think his wakings are more of an habit than real hunger/thirst. Have a sippy of plain water on hand in case he wakes thirsty but nothing more than that. You mention he's ok with toddler PD for other night wakings so you should try pd also for the 11 PM and 4 AM wakings.

If you're not ready to stop cold turkey you could try just with the first one and only doing the 4 am feed. After a week or so you could try cutting out that one too.

HTH and keep us posted!

[bubbabunch]

Thank you everyone for your help and support!    I'm trying to slowly eliminate the night feedings.  Last night, I only did the 4 am feeding, however he still wakes up about 3-4 times a night.  My DS appears to be doing fine on the growth, he looks a little chubby.  I'm going to work towards eliminating all night feedings within the week.  I've noticed that he nows likes to be nursed as soon as he wakes up, about 6:30 am-7:00 am.  Here's his schedule:

6:30/7:00 am - Nurse for about 10 minutes
8:00 am - Bottle of breast milk/formula mix 5 oz.
9:00 am - 4 oz. of fruit and rice cracker
10:00 am - Nap for 1 1/2 hr - 2 hrs
12:00 pm - Bottle of breast milk/formula mix 5 oz.
1:00 pm - 4 oz. vegetable and rice cracker/biscuit
1:30 pm - Nap for 1 1/2 hr - 2 hrs
4:00 pm - Bottle of breast milk/formula mix 5 oz.
6:00 pm - Jar of baby food - dinner 4 oz. & rice cracker
6:30 pm - Bath
7:00 pm - Read books
7:15 pm - Nurse for about 10 minutes
7:30 pm - Put in crib-awake for the night
8:00/8:30 pm - 1st night waking - PD and WO/WI
11:00 pm - 2nd night waking
1:00 am - 3rd night waking
4:00 am - 4th night waking
5:30/6:00 am - trys to getup for the day

We would sure love to get rid of the night wakings.  I've been back at work since he was 4 months old.  It's so tiring to deal with work, the night wakings, and taking care of my other 8 year old son (step-son).  However, we are extremely happy that he's finally in his crib.  Does anyone have any idea how to get his night wakings to stop??  I'd love for him to just sleep through the night.  Do you think we need to put him in his own room?  Would it help? 

[Florencia]

Congratulations on your hard work. Slowly, things are looking so much better!

How long are the night wakings? are you settling him down OK with the pd and wi/wo? If he's settling down easily, then keep at it consistantly and as soon as he notices he's not being fed in the middle of the night and is ok with that, he'll stop needing/expecting to be fed and will likely to go to sleep through.

Moving him out of the room depends on your posibilities and his sleep habits. Is he easily disturbed by your presence or noises? does he get excited when he wakes and see you there? do you have a chance to get him into his own room? if so, by all means do that. If you notice he's not easily disturbed/excited by noise or your presence then you might want to wait to move him to his room till you lowen the night wakings and have him in a sleep training process that helps him settle to new environments.

It seems like I'm rambling now so I hope I made some sense. You're doing a great job, it is not magical but i can guarantee you that it does work if you keep consistant. Good luck!

PS by looking at his schedule it seems that he's got a great routine and great nap times so i don't think it¿s a matter of overtiredness.

[bubbabunch]

My DS doesn't seem to be waking up because of noise or being disrupted.  We think sometimes he wakes up because he's gassy or maybe he's teething.  But, his wakings seem to be pretty regular.  Even when I did the co-sleeping, he never slept through the night.  I'm thinking if he knows he's in another room, then maybe he won't cry as much because he'll figure out that it's harder to get our attention.  It feels like when we do PD and let him cry for a couple of minutes before doing the next PD, he seems to calm himself down.  Sometimes he even stops crying for a little while, but then starts up again.  I think he likes the attention of us doing the PD at night.  I think if we're out of sight and/or sleeping and not coming to his side, that he eventually puts himself to sleep.  I'm not sure if this modified CIO and PD technique is right, or should I be doing just the PD technique and coming to him faster?  Do you think this could be contributing to his night wakings?

Thank you for all your help and advice 

[Florencia]

It looks like you're 90% sure of switching him to his own room. That is the hugest part of the procedure, having mom and dad on board for a change. If you want it, go for it and remember to be consistant. For what you tell me, I think you'd find walk in/walk out helpful for helping him settle in his own space. As you mention, it appears your lo likes his own space and time to settle and that is ok. He might also need less intervention than some other babies around here, so that's why i suggest you to try wi/wo, cause using it you will be giving him the opportunity to go down and soothe byhimself but also letting him know you're still there for him in case he needs you. For specifics in the method, check out the FAQ section of this forum under a thread called Teaching Independent Sleep. WI/WO is not a modified CIO cause you're right there for him, not leaving him alone to cry. The amount of time you wo doesn't allow him to cry out for more than a minute. Be sure to make the difference between this method and controlled crying which is a modified CIO and that this site or the mods do not recommend at all.

HTH and good luck!