night feeds affecting 4hr easy

[cmckenna]

Hi,

I have been battling night wakings for months now.  My 5month old DD has been on a 4hr easy since 4 months old.  Her night wakings are now affecting her morning feed which in turn is messing up our day schedule.  Last night she ate at 5am and went back to sleep until 7:15.  I tried to feed her at 7:15 to start the day fresh but she refused to eat.  I ended up feeding her just before her nap at 9:15 but she really didn't eat much.  So then I wonder if she can make it 4hrs and try to feed her again after her nap. Any suggestions on how to start the day and continue to follow a schedule.  We are so mixed up today that she really hasn't had a good feed and I am not sure when to feed her next. 

This is what our schedule should look like but it is off a lot these days:

E 7:30am
S 9:30 (1.5hrs)

E 11:30am
S 1:00

E 3:30
S 4:30 or 5:00 cat nap

E 5:30 (trying to cluster feed to get her off eating all night long)

E 7:30 Bedtime

Night wakings - E 10:30, 1:00, 4:00 or 5:00 and maybe one more in the mix
Many Thanks!

[rebecaq]

When she wakes at 5, how much are you feeding her?

[macsmum]

 are u bottle or bf

[cmckenna]

Hi,

She is BF so it is hard to tell.  I am also half asleep but I try not to nurse for very long.  The only problem is that sometimes she wakes at 4:30 for this feed and if I don't feed her enough she gets up for the day at 5:30. 

Thanks
Christine

[rebecaq]

Well, then my recommendation would be to slowly push this feed little by little to a later time, maybe 6am

How old is she now?

[macsmum]

pretty difficult for me to help as when ds was doing the same i watered down his bottles, i think the same thing for a bf baby is to gradually cut down the amount of time u offer a feed, so as soon as he gets sleepy u put him back to bed, u may get a few early starts, i did too but once i got the extra calories in during the daytime hours he slept better, he still woke for about 10 nights but once he knew he wasnt gonna get fed he stopped bothering

Emma

[rebecaq]

Duh, 5 months! Sorry about that!

Do you cluster feed her at night? What about a dreamfeed? 

I think if you tank her up at night before bed she may sleep longer for you.  For example, feed her at 5 then at 7 and then a dreamfeed at 10 and see how she does. It also seems to me she's waking from habit, wait and see if she sleeps through with the cluster and dreamfeeds, if not, then do them anyway but do wake to sleep since we can rule out hunger in the night.

Have you done a yield to see how your supply is?

Have you tried giving her a paci in the morning to try to hold her off till 6?

[cmckenna]

Hi,

To answer your questions, yes, she is 5 months, almost 5.5 months actually.  As far as feeding goes, I try to cluster feed but she refuses to eat after 2 hrs so she usually sucks for 1min and then screams at me.  She eats well before bed around 7pm and wakes herself at 10:30. No need to wake her for a dreamfeed.  She also eats somewhere around 12:30 or 1:00.  I know I need to sort out my nights but I think if I can her day started off right she would get in more calories and that would help my night situation. 

How do you check your yield?  Is this by pumping?  If so, I haven't been able to pump in the mornings for over a month because she eat all night.  I am pretty sure I have enough milk for her needs because I always leak and can feel let down.

Thanks for the advice!

Christine

[Jenny_Jen]

I have the exact same problem as you.  I have tried the paci when my LO wakes at night (5 am) & he just keeps waking until I feed him.  It totally screws my schedule for the day because he won't eat in the morning either because of that 5 am feed.  My LO won't tank up either, if he's not hungry he won't eat.  He's bottlefed & he will just shut his mouth & scream at me & throw the bottle around.  I have tried feeding him in his room with it dark & no distractions & still he won't eat.  He also won't stick to a 4 hour routine, he would rather eat at 5 hour intervals.  It's quite frustrating because for months I have been trying to fix this & no matter what I do I haven't been able to fix this.  He won't take a DF either, I have tried numerous times & either he won't wake up enough to eat or he just cries & thrashes around until I give up & put him back in bed.

He is the king of 45 min naps as well so in our house there is no routine.  He wakes happy as can be after 45 mins so no amount of shh/pat or PU/PD will work, he's fully awake & smiling, once in a blue moon he will actually sleep for 1.5 hours but that is rare!

I'm in the same boat as you, some days I just want to pull my hair out!

[cmckenna]

Hi,

I am happy to hear that someone else has the same problem but sorry to hear that you are dealing with it.  It can be very frustrating.  This week put things into perspective as my LO is teething and she will not nap, or sleep at night.  Last night I held her in my arms for 3 hours.  The poor thing just wailed every time I put her down.  I can't wait for things to get back to the way they were.  Here I thought things couldn't get worse on the sleep front and they have gotten much worse. 

Well, if you find any solutions to our problem, please pass it along. I won't be doing much this week as I am just trying to get by...

Take Care
Christine

[* Paula *]

With regards to a dreamfeed - you don't need to wake your lo for a feed.  You give them this feed while they are asleep.  This helps them tank up and makes them go longer into the night without a feed.  It can take up to a week for the dreamfeed to work.

Paula x

[Jenny_Jen]

It can take up to a week for the dreamfeed to work.

I've been trying for almost 2 months, does that count He will not suck if he's not awake & formula just comes out of the side of his mouth eventually or he starts coughing which wakes him & then he starts crying.

I'm at a loss of how to make the dreamfeed work for me?

[* Paula *]

Jenny_Jen,

If you post what a typical day looks like, we can see if we can try and help you.

What size teats are you using? 

It may also be worth while posting on the naps board to see if they can help you lengthen your naps.

Paula x

[Jenny_Jen]

I'll post what has happened today since it's typical:

7:30 wake - barely ate maybe 4 oz (I didn't feed him at 5 am this morning either)

9:00 - 2 tbsp cereal with 1 oz of banana

9:30 - nap for 20 mins wakes up happy as can be

11:00 - eat 6 oz

1:00 nap (woke up 2x & I managed to get him back to sleep which doesn't usually happen)

3:00 - eat 9 oz

5:00 - eat 3 oz of sweet potato

6:30 - cat nap 20 mins

7:00 - try to feed him, he refuses bottle, screams, kicks, pulls away

7:30 - bedtime (He's asleep now)

He will probably wake up around 9ish & take the bottle (7 oz usually), when he does eat at 7 pm I usually go in around 10:30 & try the DF, tonight it won't happen though because he will probably eat around 9ish & if I try to go in at 10:30 it will only be 1.5 hours since he ate & there will be no way he'll eat.  If I try (& I have) he will just get angry & wake himself up in such a fit that he will be hard to get to go back to sleep afterwards.  He does this regardless of solids too.  I have tried not giving solids, limiting solids, & with solids & the way he is doesn't make any difference.  I can't get anymore oz into him during the day no matter what I try.  On an average day, over 24 hrs, he will usually take between 25-30 oz.  Some days are better than others, but most days are like this.

I am using fast flow nipples during the day & have tried switching between slow & fast at DF time, first feed of the day, last feed of the day & still no difference.

Not sure if it matters but he weighed in at 14.9 at his 4 month check up, guessing now he probably weighs 16-16.5 lbs.

[* Paula *]

Hi,

Thanks for posting your schedule.

With regards to feeding DS first thing in the morning.  Do you offer him his bottle as soon as he wakes?  We found that our DS would not take a bottle immediately and usually had to wait about 30 minutes before offering him his bottle.

Have you tried extending your DS to maybe 10:00am before putting him down for a nap?  Perhaps he is not tired enough at 9:30

I am not really sure what to sugges about your last bottle of the evening.  Perhaps moving your dinner to 4:30 may make him hungry enough to take a bottle at 7:00 - just a thought there.

Hope some of this info helps.

Let us know how you get on.

Paula x

[Jenny_Jen]

Yesterday was totally unsuccessful at feeding.  I did extend his A time & he did nap but he only had 1 full bottle (7 oz) & 2 half bottles (3-4 oz each).  He just kept pulling off the bottle & crying, I am wondering if he's teething & his gums are hurting, I tried different nipples & different bottles & nothing worked.  I gave him tylenol but it didn't help either.  He woke at 4:30 this morning & DH tried feeding him but still he only took 4 oz & went back to sleep.

Blahhhh!

[* Paula *]

That definitely sounds like teething.

The sucking motion can really hurt their gums.  Have you tried rubbing teething gel on his gums a few mintue before a feed?  This can help cool and ease the pain on the gums.

When my DS started teething, he went through phases where he refused a bottle point blank - I think we went for 5 days without him taking a bottle.  As soon as the tooth popped through, he started taking his bottles again.

Teething can also affect their sleep.

Hugs, I know it is hard, but things will improve.

Paula

[Jenny_Jen]

No I haven't tried that, maybe I'll give him some gel right before his feed to see if he will feed better.  He has been eating again but last night before bed he got all upset during his feed & kept pulling off & then just refused it & started crying.  I gave him tylenol again & cuddled with him on the couch & he finally went to sleep.

He is hungry though, last night he ate all his solids at dinner & this morning he ate all his oatmeal so it seems to have something to do with the bottle right now.

Why can't they come with a manual or at least speak!!!!!!     

[* Paula *]

Hugs, I know it is hard.

My DS is teething again - His molars are coming through    Poor boy has refused most of his food today.  It is so hard to know what is really bothering them.

I agree on the manual 

Let us know how you get on with the teething gel.

Paula x