9 mo routine - advice please :)

[tiki_mama]

Can someone please look at my 9mo DD's current routine and tell me if there's anything that jumps out at you as a reason she's started to wake up around 5am every morning I've been working on extending her morning A time, but when she gets up so early it's tough keeping her awake past 2.5 hours. Also her next 2 A periods are pretty long so I wasn't too concerned about the morning one! She's got more teeth coming through and this morning woke ready for the day just before 4am but seems to have a slight cold. Not sure if it's all related or if our routine needs tweaked again!

Thanks

Her routine:

Wakes - 5/5.30am - Breastfed (occassionally she'll fall back asleep til  6/6.30)
Breakfast - 7am - cereal with fruit and some toast
Nap - 7.30/8am (1.5 hours) - currently working to extend this
snack - 10am
lunch - 12pm - pasta/couscous/rice with 3 or 4 different veges, maybe some fish or cheese etc yoghurt or finger food (fruit, tortilla bits, rice cakes etc)
Nap - 1/1.30 (1.5 hours)
Breastfed - 3pm
Dinner - 5/5.30 (similar to lunch)
Bath - 6/6.30
Bed - 6.30/7pm (more often 6.30 at the moment cause of early wakening!)

No feed in the night now (only just at 7 months!)

[* Paula *]

Teething / colds - definitley have a lot to do with night wakings and early morning wakings.

You say you breastfeed at 5:00/5:30 - is this every morning- is it the norm?  If it is normal, it could be that she is waking out of habit at 5:00, just have a BF and then go back to sleep.

Paula x

[tiki_mama]

Hi! Thanks for the reply 

Well I've basically always fed her as soon as she wakes up in the morning, just so happens at the moment it's 5/5.30 whereas before it was 6.30/7.

To be honest a couple of times it's resulted in her going back to sleep for an hour or so, and I guess maybe she has though to herself...i'll just get up now & mum will feed me.

Do you think if she wakes up at 5am I get her out of bed and don't feed her til say 6/6.30? I think it'd be tough but I'm willing to try it if you think it might help?

In the back of my mind I also think that 11 hours sleep is the recommended 'norm' for a 9 month old and that's how long she generally sleeps now, unfortunately it's a vicious circle in that we struggle to keep her up any later so if she's going to bed at about 6/6.30 she will wake at 5/5.30

[* Paula *]

You could try pat/shh to try and re-settle her when she wakes so early in the morning and see if that helps her settle.  Does she take a pacci?

You can try to see if she will go a bit longer for a feed, but if she is hungry, then you should feed her.

You may find that once her cold clears and she is not teething as badly, things may improve themselves.

Paula x

[Mamastalawatt]

Hiya,

I can sympathise with the 5am waking - my DS went through the same very recently.  We started changing his nappy then leaving him to go back to sleep (pat/shh if necessary) and this seemed to do the trick.  Now he wakes at about 6.30am, occasionally as late as 8am.  He now also plays a bit before shouting to be fed.

Your routine looks similar to ours, just a bit earlier in the day!

Hope you get sorted.

Mama
xxxxx

[tiki_mama]

well this morning she woke at just before 4am, almost the same time as yesterday! 

We left her for about 30 minutes as she was just chatting and mantra crying, but then it escalated and DH went in to try to reassure her and to try the usual pat/shush (which often works but not recently). After 1 hour I fed her and she fed really well for 20 minutes! I think she was hungry 

9 month growth spurt? extra activity needing extra calories?

Let's see what tomorrow brings!

[* Paula *]

Could very well be a growth spurt

[Gippie]

Tiki - Our DD went through this about 7 months and then again at 8.5 - started waking early.  Not enough to be a w2s issue BUT enough to be early KWIM?    DD used to wake at 6 and was then up at 5?    We DID try w2s at least 7 days in a row and she wouldnt break it.    I wouls wake at 5, shh her, repaci and shed wake at 6.   After about 4 weeks  she was back on track - who knows what it was.   by the time  I was done obsessing over it, she was out of the kick.    I never repaci at night - she spits it out - but with this early wake - it worked and we slept a little more.....good luck....and dont sweat it!

Stacey

[tiki_mama]

thanks stacey 

I figure she'll be back on track soon enough. She's pretty consistent when it comes to sleep and no matter what we do she always sorts herself out! lol

Also, she's actually sleeping 11 hours which is brilliant!, it's just with her getting up so early she's in bed by 6/6.15 just now so obviously that's only taking her to 5am, so DH and I are trying to gradually keep her up til at least 7.30 so hopefully she'll wake around 6/6.30 (fingers crossed!)

I knew that having a baby would mean a lot less sleep, and all the fun and good times easily outweigh the sleep deprivation!! 

[tiki_mama]

Ok, so DD is still waking early. Yesterday she woke up before 4! I think tbh it was my fault as I decided to put a few toys in her cot so she could amuse herself if she woke early (meaning 5am at the earliest!!) but I think she probably rolled into them and thought "Hey I have toys in my cot...let's play!".

I did my usual AP and fed her (after DH tried to settle her for 40 minutes) and she went back to sleep til 7am.

This morning however she woke at 5am (yes I know it's better than 4am but it's still VERY early!) so my DH gave her some toys and she played for about 15 minutes but then started getting upset so we got her up and I didn't feed her til 6am!! Ontop of that I managed to keep her up 3 hours, which is longer than she usually manages in the morning.

So...do you think this will help? Should we continue on like this? Is this a tactic that has worked for others?

[simran]

Hi there, just read your posting.  My DD now 7months has been waking early too, started a few weeks ago.  We have tried wake to sleep with no luck, she doesn't cry just babbles away so I haven't tried shhh pat.  She also sleeps 11hrs at night but with this 'roll over' 4.30-5am wake.  I tried keeping her up later in the evening but it made things worse and I found that she was very restless during the night so now I put her to bed at around 5.30-6pm when she is ready to settle for the night. I can't figure out what it is, she may be teething but I can't see any physical signs.  I have left her a couple of times but she just babbles on and on and by 6am she's really hungry and at the same time ready for her next nap!  What I have been doing is changing her nappy and giving her 50mls of milk and putting her straight to bed and she then sleeps for another 2hrs, she kicks up a real fuss if I don't give her a drink & just change her nappy,  I then start the day when she wakes 'officially' at around 6.30am.  I will try wake to sleep again if this continues but we have day light saving this weekend where our clocks go forward (hurrah) and will tweak her routine then if needed.  But let me know how you get on and hopefully they will just pass.

[tiki_mama]

Hi Simran 

my lo woke at 4.20 this morning and she just wouldn't settle back down. It's like something was bugging her, so I changed her nappy, gave her some water and some calpol (she does have the last of her 4 top teeth coming in right now) but she wasn't having any of it!!

We got her up, but I didn't feed her til 6am (she was fairly settled playing so it's obvious she hadn't woken from hunger!). I managed to keep her up til 7.30 and she was shattered so she had her morning nap for 1.5 hours.

Our day has been weird! Normally we are very maticulous with our routine. Her breakfast is usually before her morning nap, but today it was after! then she didn't make it to lunch and crashed out in her buggy for 30 minutes at 12 then had lunch when she woke! now (3.15pm) she's having another nap but I'm panicking cause I don't want her to sleep much past 4pm!!   

To be honest her early wakening seems to happen even when she's had a perfect day of cot naps, so I can't see how it could be worse with this messed up routine!! watch this space!! lol 

[Gippie]

Ladies - I SOOOO feel your frustration.....just start the day and deal with it - thats what I did and it DID pass - but when you are in it - it seems like a bad dream.   

Simran - that sounds ike an early bedtime for her?   What is your schedule like with naps and stuff - can you post it?

[simran]

Hi there,

I also agree with the early bed time for DD but she won't stay awake past 6pm!! On Sunday our clocks moved an hour forward so our schedule since Sunday goes like this:

6am-Wake and 7oz Bottle
6.45am-Breakfast fruit & cereal
Activity
8am-Sleep usually between 1hr -1.5hr

10am-7oz Bottle
10.45am- fruit
11.30am-Bath & massage (it's such a drama giving her a bath in the evening that for the past 2months I have been bathing her at this time and she is happy & loves it)
12pm-Sleep usually 1.5hrs

2pm-7oz Bottle
2.45-Lunch veggies
Then depending on how her morning naps went she may have a 30min or longer nap here at around 4pm. Sometimes won't nap at all. Even after she has napped she finds it really hard staying awake past 6pm! she gets grizzly & grumpy even refusing her solid dinner she just wants her bottle and bed.  I struggle to make her feed time at 6pm.  Any suggestions? should I give her solid dinner at 5pm?  I find that putting her to bed later by stretching her wake time makes her night sleep restless & she normally wakes earlier.  She sleeps 11-12hrs through the night and may wake but always puts herself to sleep without me having to go in.  The past 2 days her day naps have been strange & I have a feeling she is teething cause she is really grizzly & bites everything she can get hols of including her hands. 

[tiki_mama]

Funny me offering you advice when it's my own issues causing me to post, but looking at your DD's schedule several things jump out at me immediately...

A 7 month old should really be having more than 2 hours activity in the morning. I stretched my DD's 'A' time from 2 hours to 2.5 over a week, then to 3 hours.

Then if she sleeps for 1.5 hours that would take you to about 9.30am right? So putting her back to bed 2.5 hours later (at 12pm) seems pretty early to me. Then she's having the 30 minute 'catnap' around 4pm (which you say she's not always happy to take).

I'd say in your case you need to try and extend her 'A' times so she's only having 2 naps in the daytime (maybe 9am and then 1pm?). I mean she's sleeping 12 hours in the night so there's no reason for her to have 3 naps and there's a very good chance she'd be able to have much more awake time on that amount of night sleep.

over the past 3 days my lo's been waking up nearer 6am so fingers crossed it's working!!

 

[simran]

I agree with you, I have tried extending her wake time before but I found that she became overtired, had trouble falling asleep and staying asleep after her first sleep cycle, in saying that, that was a few months ago so I will give it a try this week and work on it and see if it works.  I will extend her wake time by 30mins and hopefully to 3hrs.  This morning she woke at 4.30am!! I changed her & put her back to bed.  She then woke at 7am, do you think I need to do wake to sleep at around 3am as she seems to wake at around 4amish?  Thanks

[tiki_mama]

i honestly think in your DD's case her early wakening is just because her routine needs altered a bit. I'd try that first before you try w2s as I think extending A times and getting down to 2 proper naps each day will help and will work out better for you all in the long run 

keep us updated x

[simran]

Hi thanks,

Well yesterday went like this, after her 4.30am wake I got her to bed pretty much straight away and she woke at 7am where we started the day.  I extended her afternoon A time by 30mins and she was fine but by 4pm she was grizzly as her previous nap was only 45mins.  I put her to bed & she napped for 30mins, waking up really grumpy, at around 6pm she was really tired & irritable (maybe due to teething, she doesn't have any teeth yet so I assume she is teething) I fed her at 6pm and put her to bed by 6.30pm where she fell asleep straight away and woke this morning at 5.30am! having slept 11hrs straight.  I think it may be working, stretching her A time, 2 proper naps & a later bed time.  Will keep you posted.  I really appreciate all your help....take care

[simran]

Hi there,

With your advice, we seem to be doing pretty well, I have been extending her A time to approx 2.5-3hrs and she has been fine with that.  Also been trying to put her to bed a little later and wow! we had a 6.15am wake today...yippie!!  Will keep you posted.  No teeth yet 

Thanks again

[tiki_mama]

That's fantastic! At least I appear to have been paying attention to all the things I've read on this board and in Tracey's books and can now pass some of it on!!

Now, if only my DD would stop getting up at 5!!!  lol

[simran]

What do you do when she gets up at 5am? Do you start the day then or do you put her straight back to bed and start the day when she wakes again?

[Gippie]

This happened to us a LOT arounf 7.5 - 8.5 months.   I used to go in and hear her and I could tell by her "cry" that she did not want to be up, so we resettled her with paci and teddy and she always went back until 6ish - even now she will do it once in a while.   If you CANNOT get her back to bed - I'd start the day.   My SIL gives a botle and she is then out till 9 - I wouldnt do that as I think it throws the day off a LOT.  9am is a relly late wake time.    Hope that helps.

I read all these moms with 7:30 wake times- NOT US!!!-....we are 6-6:30 EVERY day.  I DO like it cause it is perfect for us, but I wish she knew the difference between the week and the weekends .  Today my DH got home at 6:30(he works nights) and I asked if he cheked on DD - cause she was still asleep...he said YES, she is fine....I said Is she BREATHING - he said YEs..I wsa NOT able to go back to bed - cause I KNEW any second I'd hear her...and go figure - she slept till 7am .  Miracles never cease to happen!!!

Have a great day

[tiki_mama]

when my DD starts to wake at 5 we leave her for as long as possible (basically until she is crying), then DH goes in and puts some toys in her cot and we leave her again. She'll play for about 10 minutes then she'll go nuts!!

We bring her through to our room and play with her on the bed and don't feed her til 6am. We did that for a few days and she eventually slept through til 6am or after, but the early wakenings have started again and the only thing I can think it is now is her teeth. her bottom 3rd and 4th are just under the gum and seem to be driving her crazy 

I am hopeful that she will go back to her later wakening time again once the teeth are through (before the next lot start! lol!). It's funny how you start to see 6am as a lie in!! 

[simran]

Hi there,

Just checking in to see how you are getting on with the early wakings?  We have managed to push them to 5.45am by getting her to bed at 6.30pm, any later and she seems to wake earlier!  We are however still struggling to increase her A time to 2.5-3hrs.  She is teething & was down with a cold and as a result her morning naps are now only 45mins.  Her second nap is still 1.5hrs but due to early waking from naps she still needs that afternoon catnap otherwise she is really tired by 5pm.

[tiki_mama]

Hey 

Well DD has had a terrible cold for the past 2 weeks, but amazingly she sleeps better when she's ill so for about a week she was getting up at 7am, which was brilliant! It made our day very strange as often her second nap was at about 3.30/4pm!!

She's better now and has been waking around 6.15/6.30. We've found that if we put her to bed at about 6.30pm she goes to sleep peacefully within about 10 minutes, but any later and she struggles to settle and will cry for about 30 minutes on and off. It seems that's her current preferred bedtime so we'll stick with that for now.

It's hard trying to extend A times when your LO is unwell, but I really think you need to try and work out a way to get her awake longer and cut out the catnap. At her age it will affect her nightime sleep no question  If you can't find a way to extend awake time, have you thought of just putting her to bed around 5.30pm (for the night). If she's waking at 5.45pm then that's not actually as early as it sounds. 12 hours in bed and 12 hours up is pretty normal.

Why not try it? Let me know how you get on 

x

[simran]

Hi there,

Hope your DD is better, these nasty viruses really mess up baby routines!  Well she has been pretty grizzly and woke at 5am, I left her in the hope that she would re-settle but she wasn't having any of it, we finally started the day at 5.45am.  She was awake for 3hrs and is still sleeping after 1hr!  Now that the cold is better, we will extend her A time, drop the catnap and put her to bed at 5.30pm.  I will give this a try for a week & let you know how we get on.  She is also teething pretty badly so hopefully the teeth cut through before she gets used to short naps and early wakings.  At least if all works it will make her less grizzly, irritable and get her appetite back.

Take Care