Author Topic: Waking at night: Is this hunger or habit?  (Read 1670 times)

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Offline clarapist

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Waking at night: Is this hunger or habit?
« on: September 23, 2006, 13:27:41 pm »
My LO (12 weeks) has been waking each night b/n 3:30 and 4:00am.  His eyes are wide open and sometimes he's eating his hands.  He's not exactly crying, just kinda moaning and yelling. I've given him the paci, and reswaddled and tried sh/pat, but he remains wide awake and then seems to get fussier. SO, I feed him. At first, I was trying to LIMIT his oz to 2 to see if he would then try to get more during the day. Then for the past few nights, I decided to see how much he'd take on his own. He then only takes 2-2.5 oz!  He then goes right back to sleep, and sleeps (usually) till wakeup time at 6am (but boy do I wish this were 7am!)
He is on a 3 hour EASY, (bottle fed) bedtime is around 7-7:30 and we just reintroduced DF (which seems to be going ok now- as he goes till 3:30!).  He has been attacked by the 45 minute nap monster, and usually has about 2-3 45ers and one 2-2.5 hour nap.
He is VERY easy to get to go to sleep.  For naps, just go to the room, sing a little song, swaddle, and place in the crib and he usually drops right off, or if not, requires about 10 pats on the back.  Same with nighttime.

At 12 weeks, I know he could still be  needing to eat at night, but is he REALLY hungry if he's only taking 2.5 oz?  Should I start trying to dilute?

THX
Jill
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Offline M and N's Mom

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Re: Waking at night: Is this hunger or habit?
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2006, 17:46:35 pm »
One feeding at 12 weeks is pretty good, but have you tried w2s to see if it is just habit?  If it is the same time each night, it might be habit.


Offline Colin Macs Mom

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Re: Waking at night: Is this hunger or habit?
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2006, 17:07:19 pm »
That's pretty unusual that he wouldn't need a full night feed anymore, but stranger things have happened. If he's only taking 2 or 2.5 oz then that's definitely not hunger. I would give W2S a go.
Jessica
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Offline clarapist

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Re: Waking at night: Is this hunger or habit?
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2006, 14:26:04 pm »
HELP! Now it's worse! Last 2 nights, he woke at 2am (after dreamfeed at 10:45).  The first time, he was WIDE AWAKE for an hour and a half! I fed him to see if he'd go back to sleep but no luck.  I am pretty sure it was b/c he went to sleep for his last nap at 5:45 and I woke him for his 7:30 feed, and then he never woke up again!

So, the next day (yesterday), we started our day at 7, he took one 45 minute nap, 1one-hour naps, 1 1.5 hour, and then fell asleep again for his last nap at 5:45 (HARD to get to sleep). I had to wake him again for his last feeding at 7:30, but this time kept him up to do a bath- was back in bed by 8:30.  (To see if it would reset his sleep).  No dice. Up again at 2.  I fed him at 2:30 (took 3 oz) and -- he was up until about 3:15.  Woke again at 5:30, but I was able to pat him back to sleep and he woke for the day at 6:15.

I think that b/c of his short naps (I try to extend, but sometimes, he just up and that's all he wrote!) he is so tired by the end of the day, that he passes out.  I know putting to bed earlier is usually the answer, but NOT when he's going to be awake for an hour and a half overnight!  I wait until he cries to get him. 


His first nap of the day is ALWAYS 45 minutes and it's impossible to extend.  That just screws up the day. 
Any thoughts are welcome.
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Re: Waking at night: Is this hunger or habit?
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2006, 16:49:29 pm »
I've asked a nap mod to look in here for you - I'm definitely no expert there but I think naps are a likely culprit.
Jessica
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Offline clarapist

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Re: Waking at night: Is this hunger or habit?
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2006, 20:05:51 pm »
Hi Stacy,
Thanks for the reply. You've seen me before in short naps. :)  He is great at going to sleep.  Wrap him up, sing a song, and put down awake.  Only rarely needs a paci just to "organize" himself. He always spits it out prior to going to sleep and I never replace.

We are currently visiting at my parents' house. I've been trying to keep the "routine" but with visitors, etc, it's been hard, and really, it's been all over the place!
USUALLY, he takes a 2 or more hour nap at his 2nd or 3rd nap, but these past few days, he wakes (oddly enough) at like 1 hour and 15!!  Weird.  Generally, if he wakes after 45 minutes, I make sure he's down 2 hours (or less) after he's eaten. His A times are actually very long b/c he's been up since the previous nap! And, it's hard to make them any shorter, otherwise he'd be eating after 2.5 hours.

Here's how today looked (it is very similar to yesterday)
Last night= awake 2-3:15. I waited till he was crying and fed at 2:30. He went to sleep around 3:15
wake at 5:30- I have been successful at patting him back down
6:156/30 awake (Oh, how I wish this were 7!)
E 6:45
S 7:30-8:15. He PASSES OUT at this naptime. I've tried to extend A time, but no luck. Should I try harder to extend to 8ish?
I've tried with NO luck to extend this nap.  So, here's my problem, he's now been awake since 8:15. He gets REALLY upset at the last 45 minutes prior to eating. I have in the past taken him for a walk during this time (so I can exercise, and so he can at least get back on EAS) I didn't today, but at about 9:30 he started getting VERY upset (he's textbook, pretty much and hardly EVERY cries) My mom decided to take him for a walk and he fell asleep at about 9:55, and slept for oh, 15 minutes)
E 10:15(By the way, when do I know it's time to start stretching E times?  He is bottle fed, and sometimes won't take a lot after 3 hours. Problem is I can't feed him after 3.25 or 3.5 hours b/c he's been awake too long!

S 11:00 (harder to get to sleep- b/c A time was almost 3 hours, but couldn't help it!)
Awake at 12:15 (we were in the car, though)
E 1:15
S 2:00- about 3:00 (not sure if it was 45 minutes or not)

So, yesterday looked very similar to the above. He ate last at 4:30, and went to sleep at 5:45
I had to wake him at 7:30 to eat, and he was going to go right back to sleep, but I woke him for bath.

I dreamfed at 10:45.  (I just reinstated the df, as I don't think he had a chance to get enough oz's without it).  Last week, it was lasting till 3:30, and as this original post stated, he only took 3 oz, then went right back to sleep. Now, I think he wants some A time in the day/

I hope this makes sense. I have tried a LOT of patting to extend naps, but most of the time, he wakes up happy.  I usually try patting about 10 minutes, and if no luck, I take him out. 
Maybe this week should be considered a wash b/c we're out of his normal surroundings? There have been a LOT of visitors this week. (Grandparents live in NC, I live in FL)

In any case, if he goes down for that last nap again today after the next feeding (which I'll do at 4:15), and stays down, what should I do??? He has only had a total of about 45+60+60 with his naps today. (I'm being generous with the 60s)

Should I also nix all of the outings while we're here?  Also, we have a downstairs crib for naps and upstairs crib for night. Would that make a difference?

I'm still wondering if the DF is working. It helped again for awhile, and then this 2am crud started. 

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Offline clarapist

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Re: Waking at night: Is this hunger or habit?
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2006, 21:06:48 pm »
Thanks--  we don't go home, however till this Friday!!  AACK! 
I know he should never have 3 hour wake time- I was FREAKING OUT this morning!  And it's so hard b/c my parents just don't get it. ("He's a baby, just go with the flow") ARRGH! (Thanks for letting me vent!)

When you say A time of 1 hour 30, does that INCLUDE E time or in addition to E time (he usually takes 30 min to feed)

OK, so for TONIGHT-- he JUST went down after this last feed. (He went down at 5:00) Next E time would technically be at 7:15.  Should I wake him after an hour???  (which would be 6:00- and thus only 2 hour after last E) I have never clusterfed (it's just never worked out with nap schedules all over the place.)  What would you do tonight with last bottle, bath,  and bedtime?


THANKS
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Offline clarapist

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Re: Waking at night: Is this hunger or habit?
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2006, 21:37:14 pm »
Quick update from above post. Since going to sleep at 5:00, I have had to pat him back to sleep 3 times!  :( Poor thing is so tired!  This probably means another bad night.
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Re: Waking at night: Is this hunger or habit?
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2006, 21:55:38 pm »
Oh, and one more question: Why do you think he has such a short A time after his first waking?  Should I try to extend it? (He really passes out, so I think I"d just have an overtired baby!)
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Re: Waking at night: Is this hunger or habit?
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2006, 14:56:33 pm »
I SO thought last night would be better b.c naps went better yesterday. His 2nd nap was 2 hours, and then the rest were 45.  Problem is, I think that he woke from his last nap at 5:15, and then last bottle was at 6:30-7:00. Then bath, and by the time he got to sleep it was 7:45. 
I did dreamfeed at 10:30, but he woke at 2:00 and was eating his hands, but only took 2.5 oz again! 
Woke at 4:30 and was "yelling" in his sleep.  I think it might have been gas, b/c he was drawing his legs up. I tried to burp him, and got nothing, and put him down and he was fine.... till 5:30- woke again. I patted him to sleep and he woke at 6;30 (or at least that's what time I heard him!) and I started the day.
Same thing, he was passing out by 7:40. Woke at 8:25.  Fed again at 9:25 and he started fussing after 2 oz (another issue--- I'm looking into possible dysphagia) and then only took a total of 3 oz before passing out again. I changed diaper and put him down at 10:00.

It's now 10:55, and he hasn't stirred, so hopefully this will be his long nap. 

I guess tonight I need to put him down NO LONGER than 2 hours after waking from his last nap? 
I am still baffled by the waking hungry but only eating 2.5 oz. 
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Re: Waking at night: Is this hunger or habit?
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2006, 16:03:08 pm »
Yeah, I figured that.  Thing is- his naps are 45 min, then 2+ hours, then 45, then 45- so it's 3 catnaps a day! ;) (He's on 2 hours right now, I'll let him sleep till 12:30- his next E time)

When will I know it's time to move to longer than 3 hour EASY??? 
I've never done cluster feeding.  (b/c nap schedule has always been crazy since 45 min nap monster arrived at 8 weeks). Should I try that at the end of the day (if he's up)?  I hate changing things around, but apparently what I'm doing now isn't working (my goal is sleep thru the night, of course. I have a hard time believing that it will ever happen!!!)
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Re: Waking at night: Is this hunger or habit?
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2006, 17:17:01 pm »
But I am still feeding every 3 hours.  If I extend to 3.5, then a)he would feed to sleep after first 45 min nap ( E 6:30, S 7:30-8:15. Today I fed at 9:30 and he fell asleep at the end  and b) last feed of the day is really late (6:30; 10:00; 1:30; 5:00; 8:30 (this is past bedtime). Shall I do  a combo??

He went to sleep at 10:00. I woke him at 12:30 and he was about to go to sleep afterwards! I intervened and just did a diaper change and wet him down with a diaper wipe- and he woke up.(This happened yesterday, too! Ate at 12:30, then wasfalling asleep. I kept him up till 1:15, and he fell asleep sitting up.  Then slept only  45 min, so was awake at 2, and next feed at 3:30!)
So, I'm still feeding every 3 hours.
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Re: Waking at night: Is this hunger or habit?
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2006, 18:26:31 pm »
2.5 am nap?  That may have the effect of making the rest of your naps very short OR eventually early morning wakings, and more wake ups at night. 

I was thinking the same thing.
Jessica
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Re: Waking at night: Is this hunger or habit?
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2006, 19:42:08 pm »
I know, I know. I'm SOOO frustrated right now, I could cry (again).  I am dealing with short naps, long naps, night wakings, and diffficulty feeding, and it seems like I SHOULD have control over it but I DON'T. 
That first am 45 minute nap just throws everything off, and I have never been able to extend no matter what I do.  He goes to sleep so soon after waking and then wakes up 1.25 hours before the next feed. By the time he eats next (9:30) he's wiped out, so goes to sleep at 10, and then sleeps till next feed. I've let him, b/c it gets us back to the EAS pattern.
I am still visiting my parents' house. SO, I should probably wait till I get home this weekend to get back to business.

He slept for 1.5 hours for this 3rd nap (2-3:30). This has NEVER happened! So, now we had 45, 2.5 and 1.5. He'll probably take another 45er catnap (like he's supposed to!) prior to bed, and now I'm wondering if he's had too much sleep!!! 
This whole sleep thing is consuming my daily thoughts. I'm starting to not ENJOY him, and that's a terrible thing, b/c he's a REALLY sweet baby that is happy and hardly ever cries (except overnight).  Once I try to get a routine going, his biorhythms just seem to take over!! 
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Re: Waking at night: Is this hunger or habit?
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2006, 20:09:23 pm »
I never did a real EASY either if it makes you feel any better.  Our days were always more like AEAS and it was perfect. Just remember that EASY is designed to be flexible - and babies can't tell time!
Jessica
Mom to Colin Ronald, August 18, 2005
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