Author Topic: 2 to 1 nap, night waking, early wakings...so many problems!  (Read 739 times)

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Offline HJL

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2 to 1 nap, night waking, early wakings...so many problems!
« on: September 28, 2006, 13:43:24 pm »
How old is your child?
 
Twins: Siena & Iris: 10 months and 3 weeks

What’s his/her daily routine?

Recently transitioned to 2 to 1 nap per day...here is their schedule
7:45am wake
8am: milk
9am: breakfast
11:30 lunch
12noon Nap (only lasts one hour....sometimes less!!)
2 or 2:30 pm Milk
4:30pm Dinner
6pm bath/pajamas
7pm milk and bedtime (usually they are asleep around 7:30-7:45pm)

I just transitioned to this schedule about 2 weeks ago (although sometimes i still give a morning nap if they are really tired due to the night wakings). The reason i transitioned was because their morning nap would take longer and longer for them to fall asleep...sometimes they would play in their crib until drifting off to sleep at 11:15am. And they would refuse their afternoon nap altogether.....or if they did sleep in the pm it was almost 4 - 4:30pm (once it was even 4:45pm) before they fell asleep in the pm. I know it was early to transition them, but they were refusing the pm nap. They have never been long nappers.....an hour is usually what i can get out of them. With this new schedule they get very tired by lunch time and have on occasion fallen asleep on their high chair while eating. ON days when i tried to give them a morning nap at around 10:15-10:30, they will take it, but then won't sleep at all in the pm. Since the 2 to 1 switch i have moved up their bedtime (they now are asleep around 7:30-7:45pm whereas before they slept at around 8:00=8:15pm). I find that now since moving bedtime earlier, they wake up at 6am crying...(they used to sleep til about 7:45am and wake up happy).



What’s nap routine? See above

How long are naps? Lately naps (especially for Siena) have been less than an hour ...once she slept on 30min all day....i feel lucky if they sleep an hour (iris will usually go for an hour). I try to do pu/pd to extend the nap, but i can spend another 30min just doing pu/pd with them crying like crazy and they still don't fall back asleep.  I have used pu/pd successfully in the past (at around 7.5months) to break them of the prop of being walked to sleep and that worked, but i have never been successful with pu/pd for extending naps. ONce i bring them to their playroom or family room after naps they are okay (ie not too bad crankiness...they play happily)

What's bedtime routine? Time? 6pm Give both bath and pajamas one at a time. Play with them (try to play with books so its not too stimulating play) and then bottle and then into the crib

Do you bottle or breastfed?? Bottle

How much? or how long? 3 bottles a day...8 oz each bottle....Feeding can take up to one hour (ie they drink then play then drink etc)

If breastfed.. one side or both?? (at each feed)

How many wakes per night? Last night Iris woke at 12:30 am...i did pd until 1am then left the room when she was quiet (not quite asleep yet though). Siena slept through the night. Both awoke at 6am and did not fall back asleep til 6:30pm. They sort of take turns giving me problems with night wakings.... Last week Siena was up often throughout the night (9:30pm 11pm 1pm 4pm) and Iris slept right through and now Siena is sleeping through but Iris is waking. They are both having early morning wakings now though...around 6am (sometimes 5am).

What’s your LO like when waking at night? How long is he/she up? I come into the room and they are standing up in their cribs (watching the door) and crying.

When you go to him/her is she fussing or crying? Or is it a mantra cry? Crying

What have you tried to settle?? I pick up until they stop crying then i put them down and rub their back. Sometimes they will get back up again (I wait til they are standing) and then just put them back down on their back. If they don't stand back up but remain crying lying down, i rub their back. Sometimes i think the back rubbing has become a prop because they quiet down when i rub their back and close their eyes, but then the minute i stop rubbing their back they jump up and stand up crying again.

What do you do for A time and how long is it? They either play in the downstairs family room that is full of toys and when they need a change of scenery i take them to their upstairs playroom.

Are there developmental issues such as teething or milestones? They went through a growth spurt shortly after 9 months. They took their first steps at 9.5 months and have been walking ever since. They are now walking fully (rarely crawl anymore).

Have you introduced cereal? Why, how much, and how many times a day? (for LO’s under 6 months)

Do they have a prop? If so what is it? I think the back rubbing i do when i do pd has become a prop??

Do they have a lovie? Iris has a little bear that she holds at night, but Siena has never taken much to her bear.

I know i have several problems here: not a long enough nap in the day, night wakings, early morning wakings. etc. Not sure if this is all do to the 2 to 1 transition. Before the 2 to 1 transition, problems were starting at night (night wakings) and they seemed to improve a bit when i went 2 to 1 (i think they were just more tired at night so they slept), but now things seem to be getting worse.

I really love Tracy's books and philosophy, but the more people i talk to i am beginning to wonder whether CIO might be the way to go. There is a local Parenting Phone in show i watch on TV and the expert their is totally for going cold turkey and letting them cry it out.  The girls doctor also told me to let them cry it out. A good friend of mine who has two wonderful kids (already 3 and 4 yrs old) did CIO on both and they are super duper sleepers (and they don't seem like they have a broken bond of trust with their parents). I wonder if the parents in tracy's book did CIO wrong (you are supposed to not go into the room at all...if you let them cry and then break down and go to them after a while you are just teaching them it takes more crying for you to respond). I don't really want to do CIO, but sometimes i wonder how different it would be to pd (since the girls cry while i am in the room anyway...i don't do pd until they are standing up so sometimes i am in the room with them while they are lying down and crying - not much diff from CIO is it? I think the back rubbing has become a prop so i am trying to stop doing that).

Thanks in advance for your help!
HJL

Offline Colin Macs Mom

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Re: 2 to 1 nap, night waking, early wakings...so many problems!
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2006, 16:53:35 pm »
Firstly, I must tell you that we do not support CIO in any form on this board. It goes against BW completely and is the antithesis of Tracy's beliefs. This board is here to support BW and BW methods, so even discussing something like CIO is off-limits. Tracy said that there was a gentler way - we just need to find it for your LOs. CIO is NOT the answer and in fact will most likely just make things worse. They need to know that you will be there to meet their needs and I'm sure you don't want to break that trust. You should know though that being there in the room with them and doing PD while they're crying is completely different from CIO. They need you to be there with them.

With that being said though, I can't imagine how hard it must be to have twins and cope with the sleep deprivation and all that we go through as new parents. My heart really goes out to you!

I think that your problem is the one nap. It's quite early to make a transition to one nap, and sleeping one hour or less a day is nowhere near enough. I'd bet anything that they're caught in a cycle of overtiredness and that's why they're waking so much. I'd really urge you to go back to two naps.
Jessica
Mom to Colin Ronald, August 18, 2005
Spirited + Reflux =  :o


Offline Kimberly®

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Re: 2 to 1 nap, night waking, early wakings...so many problems!
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2006, 17:36:42 pm »
I agree with PP but I would suggest you check out our Multiples boards. There are many moms with twins or more who can really support and help you through this.

We all know how hard it is, and we all know that Tracy's ways are a LOT of work, but the results are worth it. We have all been there, we've all been told to let them CIO but there is a better way. There trully is. Please check the board out and give it a try ok.

Kimberly

Offline Diegos Mama

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Re: 2 to 1 nap, night waking, early wakings...so many problems!
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2006, 18:26:20 pm »
Well, I can see why you're frustrated, I would be too.  It seems to me that your babies cannot fall asleep independently and that's leading to the napping problems and problems at night.  With the nightwakings you're having, one nap for an hour is no where near enough sleep.  You're going to windup with very cranky, overtired babies on your hands and the nightwakings could worsen.

Do your twins use pacifiers or suck their thumb?  Do you have opportunity to stagger their sleep so you can work on sleep with one at a time (someone who can help you out with the other twin?). 

I think CIO could be pretty tramatic for them as they don't seem to know how to fall asleep on their own so they're pretty much going to be left until they collapse from exhaustion and that's a pretty sad thing for a baby to go through.  Think about how it will feel for them:  they don't know how to go asleep and the one person who they count on to help them out won't be helping either.   I know there is a lot of crying with pu/pd, but the thing is:  you're there.  Your presence preserves that bond of trust that Tracy was so adamant about.

Soooo many doctors suggest CIO -- it's a very standard answer and frustrates the daylights out of me as doctors don't have any training in infant sleep.  It's just kind of a no brainer thoughtless answer shoveled out, you know?

There was a big article on infant sleep on NPR not too long ago and they really slammed the CIO method saying it wasn't an emotionally healthy approach and even Ferber was starting to back away from the 'leave baby to cry no matter what' line of thinking.

Do you think your twins wake each other?  Have they never slept well?  Have you been able to be completely consistent in their sleep training or has that been a challenge as you have two of them?
Laura

Offline HJL

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Re: 2 to 1 nap, night waking, early wakings...so many problems!
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2006, 19:10:37 pm »
Hi
Thanks for your reply. I know CIO is not condoned on this board. {for the record i have NEVER attempted CIO}Its very frustrating though because EVERYONE i talk to says that is what should be done (medical doctors, tv experts, friends etc). Anyway, its not something i really want to do which is why i wrote my problem on this board (in the wee hours of the night though with them crying i don't exactly think clearly, you know!!  ;D

Diegos Mama: thanks for your note. Some answers to  your question...they used a pacifier from about 6 weeks to 6 months...at 6 months they started rejecting the pacifier on their own so i stopped using it. They don't suck their thumb. Regarding falling asleep on their own...I thought we tackled that -- i used pu/pd on my own successfully to rid them of the habit of walking them to sleep. FRom that point on (which was at around 7 months) i could lay them down in their crib and they would just babble until they drifted off to sleep. I didn't even have to be in the room when they fell asleep. My husband works 12 hours a day so i am basically on my own with them (he doesn't help at night cuz he is too tired from work and lately he's been fighting a cold). My mom helps me a couple of days a week, but she can't bear to hear them cry (that's how the prop of walking them to sleep got started, my mom would walk them until they fell asleep -- when i do pu/pd my mom is not very supportive and she just wants to pick them up and comfort them (i always have to send her out of the room when i am doing pu/pd otherwise she will just carry them or make me feel guilty that they are crying and all i'm doing is putting them down in their crib). As a result i am the only one who ever puts them to bed or puts them down to nap.

I know they were young to switch to one nap...i read a lot of posts on the nap forum about it. The thing is, i rarely can get two naps from...like i said, if i give them the morning nap, they won't take the pm nap (and then its a super long Awake time stretch til bedtime). When they do nap its rarely longer than an hour (i know one of the nap suggestions was to wake them up after an hour, but they usually get up themselves after an hour :D

I wonder if this is just a glitch in their development?...they slept okay (not perfect sleepers, but pretty good! ;D) before (they were always short nappers though...rarely longer than an hour for any nap), but i didn't have these problems at night (if they did wake at night, i could easily put them right back down to bed - would only take a minute....and i've never had problems with early wakings until now.

Anyway, i guess i'll just plug along with the PD at night....Not sure about the daytime naps...i guess i can try 2 naps again and see what happens, in the past, i would just let them play in their cribs during the pm nap time even though they didn't fall asleep).

THanks
h.



Offline Colin Macs Mom

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Re: 2 to 1 nap, night waking, early wakings...so many problems!
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2006, 19:55:18 pm »
There is definitely a lot of pressure everywhere for CIO - until fairly recently there was no research to show the negative effects. Plus, it was just the only method out there for a long time too. People tend to think it's easy when in fact it's much harder than just doing the work to teach independence. Good for you for not giving in!

I'm so sorry that you don't have a lot of help, I can't imagine how tough that must be sometimes. Like Kimberly said check out the multiples board if you haven't already. There are some really amazing people there who can probably relate a lot better than we can.

It could be a developmental issue - have they just learned to crawl, or are they trying?
Jessica
Mom to Colin Ronald, August 18, 2005
Spirited + Reflux =  :o


Offline HJL

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Re: 2 to 1 nap, night waking, early wakings...so many problems!
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2006, 20:07:12 pm »
Hi
They are actually walking...they have been walking for over a month now. How long are the effects of the developmental milestones?
h

Offline Colin Macs Mom

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Re: 2 to 1 nap, night waking, early wakings...so many problems!
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2006, 20:11:57 pm »
Wow, good for them!  ;D  I certaintly wouldn't think that was still your problem then, unless they're having trouble mastering it?
Jessica
Mom to Colin Ronald, August 18, 2005
Spirited + Reflux =  :o


Offline Diegos Mama

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Re: 2 to 1 nap, night waking, early wakings...so many problems!
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2006, 21:10:00 pm »
Well then, if they previously slept pretty well, I'd back on development stuff too. That's loads of fun.  Heh...

I happen to really like the pacifier with older babies as they can put it in them selves and can provide a lovely comfort to them.  Would you ever consider trying it with them again?  My younger (two now) has always sucked his thumb, but I managed to get him to switch to a pacifier as he'd sucked it raw and was painful.  Now he'll do either, but will actually fall asleep with the pacifier.  I may encourage it over the thumb at this point -- :)
Laura