Author Topic: STILL EARLY MORNING WAKING  (Read 1330 times)

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Offline Bobby brown

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STILL EARLY MORNING WAKING
« on: September 28, 2006, 14:11:34 pm »
Hello there AGAIN.........

I am STILL struggling with my DS early morning wake ups. - He is Just over 12months old and has never slept through the night. He generally will wake up around 6 times a night - This I can cope with.

What I hate more than anything is his early morning wakings - This can be as early as 4.30am some days or 5 - 5.15am. I dont understand why I cant get him to change.

I have pushed his first nap to be later - That didnt work
I have put him to bed later - that didnt work
I have only let him have 1 hrs sleep in the day - BIG MISTAKE - that didnt work
I have even let him sleep with us for a few weeks, as I thought it may be a comfort thing - Guess what - That didnt work either.

Below is his routine.!!!!!!!

Awake 4.30am - 5.15am - If I am lucky some times 5.30am, but not very often
6.30am Breakfast - Normally weetabix - followed by some milk if he decides he wants some.
8.30am - 9.30am - Sleep - I wake him after 1 hour.
10.30am - 10.45am - Toast or small snack to see him through to lunch time
12.30 - 1.00pm - Lunch
1.00pm - 1.30pm - Sleep time - Generally for about 2 - 2.5 hrs
4.30pm - 5.00pm - Dinner/ Tea time
6.00 - 6.30pm - Bath time with daddy
7.00 - 7.30pm - Bottle then bed and goes to sleep with no problems on his own.

What am I doing wrong - 12 months of getting up this early has been hard work.

PLEASE PLEASE can you give me some more help.

Thank you

From a very tired mum.


Offline imsmum

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Re: STILL EARLY MORNING WAKING
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2006, 16:12:26 pm »
First off, big hugs, I sympathise, my dd didn't sleep through on a consistent basis until 18-20 months, and after a while that sleep deprivation fog becomes too much.

A few questions: how long has this been his schedule?  What do you do when he wakes at night?  How long is he usually awake for? 

A couple of things strike me about his routine.  The length of his afternoon nap is what you would expect at his age after transition to one nap which makes me think he really is on one nap but the morning nap is just part of his night sleep.

The other thing that makes me think this is when he wakes--about 8.5 to 9 hours after he sleeps--my dd went thru this for a while.  What happens then is they are transitioning from a lighter sleep in the second part of the night into a deeper sleep of about 1 to 1.5 hours just before wakeup.  This can be a tough transition for lots of lo's around this age and they wake--which is why there are lots of lo's who get a very early morning bottle and then go back to sleep for an hour or so.  So part of the early wakeups is developmental.

when my dd was having this problem I read about this situation in Ferber's sleep book-- which does have some good insights on sleep problems if you just ignore his recommended method of dealing with them!--and he explained that what was actually happening was that the early morning nap was actually night sleep that had been hived off.  The example he gave was similar where the am nap fell very early in the morning.  The timing of the am nap is important not only with respect to his wakeup time but the time your lo goes to bed at night--for lo's your son's age(if there on 2 naps still) the am nap she be at least 14.5 to 15 hours after bedtime--your son's is about 13 hours after.  Ferber's recommendation was to go in when he wakes and essentially do PD saying it's still sleep time and only get ds up around 6.  At the same time try pushing the am nap back in 15 minute increments until you get closer to the 14.5 or 15 hour mark. 

But I think given all the night wakeups that what you do will have to be consistent with what you do then.  It seems like he is having difficulty with his sleep transitioning through out the night as well, and while your main concern is the early waking I think you'll have to do a consistent approach throughout the night or else he is going to wonder why you are taking one approach for the night wakings and another for the early morning one.  You want to treat it the same way to send him the message that it is not morning it IS night!

Let us know a bit more about what you do for the night wakings and we can help you with a plan. 

Offline Bobby brown

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Re: STILL EARLY MORNING WAKING
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2006, 19:18:00 pm »
Thanks, when I hear some-else has or is having the same problem it makes me feel better knowing it not just me and there will be light at the end of the tunnel one day!
Problem is it cant come quick enough for me at the mo.

Okay in answer to your questions.

His has been on this schedule since my last posting. (Sorry dont know the date)
The reason is because he started dropping his PM nap and because he was crying to go to bed at 5pm I was advised to push his first AM sleep (I push it an extra hour) and then to limit his first nap to minimum time. At first I only used to let him have 30min but after 2 hrs of awake time he would cry to go back to sleep - therefore i now allow him 1hr.
Prior to limiting the nap he would get up at around 5am and want to go back to bed after awake time of 3hrs and would sleep for 2.50 - 3 hrs.

Night Wakings - When I hear my DS moan i wait for 5 min before reacting - Some time he can drop back off, BUT if the moan continues and gets louder I know that I need to intervine otherwise he gets himself up and stand up in the cot. This then means he is fully awake and getting him back to sleep is a nightmare.
When I do intervine I dont speak to him at all - I walk in the room (No Lights on) and place my hand on him - If this does not calm him I gently pat for a min then move away - This is normally enough to get him back to sleep for any where between 1 - 2.5hrs.

I recently slept in his room with him to find out if there was anything waking him so much - and from what I could make out in the dark was when he wakes he will roll round the bed trying to get comfortable - If he is not comfortable within 5 Min's of rolling around the bed - this is where the moaning kicks in.
When I say rolling I mean really TOSSING & TURNING. - I felt that he was really restless and my touch just calmed him down.

I then thought it was a comfort thing but when in my bed he would do the exact same thing.




Offline Bobby brown

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Re: STILL EARLY MORNING WAKING
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2006, 06:49:08 am »
Has no-one got any idea's.


Offline Katet

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Re: STILL EARLY MORNING WAKING
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2006, 07:29:10 am »
If he is having 3-3.5 hours of day sleep, he is effectively robbing the night to sleep in the day. So you have to work out how you can get him to cut back on the day sleep... What ever you do at this age it will probably take at least 1 week maybe up to 3 to make it work.

If it was me (& I had a simular prob just before we went to 1 nap) I'd delay that first nap later & also the 2nd nap & cut back on the afternoon nap to no more than 1.5 hours or go back to only 30mins in the am... he is going to be grumpy for a week or more no matter what you do.

Not being there to see your ds it is hard, I know with my ds#2 it was best to really try to limit the am nap to 20mins in an effort to push him to 1 nap starting at 11am (then gradually later) which was REALLY hard because of toddler activities rather than my ds#2, so we ended up with a 15min morning nap (still do somedays) & if I let him go longer than 15mins he will wake earlier the next day.

You really have to work out where he is least "grumpy" to work the change, but what ever you do you need to limit day sleep to 2-2.5 hours if you are going to have any chance of a later sleep & as I mentioned don't expect it to happen in less than a week... for my own sanity I always say "this will probably take 3 weeks"... & if you swap & change too much then you aren't really likely to see a change either.

Although you say he falls asleep by himself, I'd also make that last bottle earlier so it is completely removed from Bedtime.

HTH
dc1 July 03, dc2 May 05

Offline *Natasha*

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Re: STILL EARLY MORNING WAKING
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2006, 07:38:25 am »
Have you tried W2S an hour before he normally wakes up?

Natasha proud Mum to:

My big princess Catherine 7/8/05
My little princess Mirelle 17/10/07

Offline Bobby brown

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Re: STILL EARLY MORNING WAKING
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2006, 18:35:42 pm »
Thanks,

Will give it ago.

Offline Katet

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Re: STILL EARLY MORNING WAKING
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2006, 23:18:38 pm »
I personally don't think Wake to sleep will work as his total sleep over 24 hours is close to average for his age & to me it really does look like day sleep has "stolen" from night sleep, so he needs his routine "tweeked"
dc1 July 03, dc2 May 05

Offline imsmum

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Re: STILL EARLY MORNING WAKING
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2006, 14:58:43 pm »
Sorry been out of the office so I haven't had a chance to respond.  If he was dropping the second nap he is probably ready to go to one nap and he's just stalled in the middle phase.  You've pushed the am nap back so it's longer but the idea is to keep pushing it back until there is a single nap.  In Tracy's Baby Whisperer Solves All your Problems she sets out a 2 week plan to do this.  It basically involves pushing the am nap back until it is 2 hours long and he's taking it around 11. Then you put him down super early and you push the nap and bedtime back until he is napping around 12 or 1 for a couple of hours and going down between 7-8.

Offline Bobby brown

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Re: STILL EARLY MORNING WAKING
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2006, 17:22:38 pm »
Okay thanks,

Will keep pushing that awake time