8 weeks- waking 4times per night!

[Jodieplus2]

My little boy is 8 weeks old, follows the EASY routine well- has a nap of 1/2 to 1 hour about every 1 1/2 hours during the day (he seems to get tired after being awake just 1 1/2 hours - is this normal?). He seems to go down quite easily for his daytime naps, but evenings are a different matter!
About 6.15pm he has a bath & massage & then by about 6.30pm he starts fussing, so we swaddle him and try calming him with patting and shhhsing, but he really works up a fuss! By about 7pm-7.30pm he is asleep. He has a dream feed at 10.30pm (if he hasn't already waken himself for a feed already), but then we wakes at 1.30am, 3.30am, 4.30am, 5.30am & is awake from then! I feed him each time he wakes, but sometimes he feeds for as little as 5 minutes, he is normally only awake for about 20mins, but the past few nights he fusses on & off from about 3.30am.
During the day his feeds vary, between 5-25minutes. He is breastfed- only really wanting 1 breast per feed.

Please, how can I get him to be a little more calm in the evening (it's almost like he know's he is going to be put to bed & dreads it!), & how can I get him to sleep better during the night? I feel like I am turning into a zombie with the lack of sleep! Do I need to try & keep him awake longer during the day, because at the moment he has up to 6 naps a day!?

Thanks, Jx

[barbarab]

Hi Jodie,
I don't know the answer but my little girl is exactly the same and she is 8 weeks on Tuesday.  She is breastfed and settles herself nicely during the day (we don't put her for sleeps in the same place as she sleeps at night, she prefers to sleep in her seat downstairs but upstairs in the cot bed).  She mostly goes to bed around 7-7.30pm and I find it so difficult to get her to sleep, often I am still trying to get her to sleep another 2 hours down the line, by which time she probably needs another feed!  She only ever takes one breast and then by the time she does sleep she sleeps for about 5 hours, waking around 1am but then its so difficult to settle her - she latches on for 5 mins and then when she does eventually go back to sleep, its the same as your lo, 3am, 4am, 5am and then up and back to sleep around 6.30am.

Has anyone any ideas as to what we can do? 

[texasmom]

Jodie,
Could you post his routine? 

How often do you feed him during the day? 

barbarab,
I might put her to sleep in the same place every time so that she associates sleep with that place.  Do you use the same bedtime routine every time?  When she wakes at 1, does she take a full feeding?  Do you feed her at 3, 4, and 5?

My LO is a little over 4 months, and I had lots of problems with night wakings.  It gets better.  The past two nights he can finally put himself back to sleep on his own when he wakes.  I think I had done some things to hinder him, which made it take that long, so I think it will happen sooner for you. 

Brooke

[Katet]

Just looking 1.5 hours seems really long for 8weeks, old, I'd be thinking that 1-1.25 hours would be more realistic & also if he only sleeps 1/2-1 hour, then he is feeding every 2-2.5 hours & maybe not taking a full feed so snacking. I'd try putting him down for a nap earlier & seeing if he sleeps longer, as it sounds like he is overtired by bedtime.
I would try resettling him without a feed (maybe with a paci - worked for me) at the 33.30 or 4.30am wakeup & see what happens as I think they are more "light sleep wake ups

[Fenella]

does he seem to be in any kind of discomfort? Babies with reflux struggle after night feeds especially

[Kimberly®]

I agree with Katet. Your DS is over tired. 1/2-1hour naps are just not long enough. He should be takeing 1.5 hour naps. When LO's only sleep 1 hour or less they don't reach deepsleep which is what they need to grow and to actually be well rested. Stick to 1 hour wake time for now so he isn't getting overtired, thats 1 hours from wake to going back down with the feed, and then he wont be as tired in the evenings and should be less fussy.

Try moving to a 3 hour EASY and he should take more at each feed and them not need the feeds at night. This wont eliminate all the night wakings, at 8 weeks 1-2 feedings is normal, but it will help you move to less feeds and eventually no feeds.

[Jodieplus2]

oooh, I didn't realise he should only really be awake for around an hour at a time- I was trying to prolong the time he was awake! I feel like a really bad Mum now for making him struggle!

His routine- he usually wakes around 7am, then we follow EASY- feed for around 10-15mins normally- sometimes I can get him to feed for longer, but 10min only is the norm!
He is then awake in total for around 1.5hours- including settling to sleep.
He normally feeds around 6 times per day, then as explained, 3-4times in the night.
at about 6pm we bath, massage & I try feeding, but he is usually so fussy & crying that he won't feed!
I df at 10.30pm- which he usually takes well & feeds for about 20mins.

I have been told in Breast Feeding forum to not feed for some of his night feeds but settle him other ways (pat/shush etc.). I tried this last night when he woke at 5.30am after feeding at 4.30am. He eventually got back to sleep at about 6.15am & then slept until 8am!

Is that enough info.?

Fenella- yes, at around 6.15pm-6.30pm he can really start crying badly, like in discomfort, but usually settles after about 20mins. He will then be in his cot & settle (after me having to put his dummy back in his mouth about 5 times!)

My rountine sounds awful doesn't it!?

Thanks for your help, I will let him sleep sooner during the day & try feeding every 3 hours so he feeds for longer. Not sure how I can get him to nap for longer during the day though?!
Jx

[Katet]

Feeling like a horrid mother unfortunately will stick with you many times as your lo grows up... looking at your routine he sounds like an overtired bub & that is almost EXACTLY what I had with my ds#1 until a friend helped me deal with some of our problems (before I found BW). If you can spend a few days watching him like a hawk from the 45min mark & see if you can pick up his subtle tired signs & if you get him down at the right time you may well start to see lovely long naps... I know I did, not always, but once a day or so to start with & it gives you confidence. Also if you have to do a EASASE if he only sleeps 1/2 hour

[M and N's Mom]

I have been told in Breast Feeding forum to not feed for some of his night feeds but settle him other ways (pat/shush etc.). I tried this last night when he woke at 5.30am after feeding at 4.30am. He eventually got back to sleep at about 6.15am & then slept until 8am!

As you settle into a 3 hour EASY, you will know that your lo is able to go at least that long without eating.  So, in most cases you wouldn't feed at night unless it had been at least the 3 hours (unless you thought it was a growth spurt).  You don't want your lo learning that they only way to go back to sleep is by feeding.

Good luck 

[Jodieplus2]

well I've had 2 more successful nights- I managed not to feed him unless he had slept for at least 2 hours rather than just 1! Last night he woke at 10pm(DF), 1.45am (E), 3.30am (shush/pat), 4.45am (E). So he actually went over 3 hours between feeds, so hopefully he will start to drop one of his wakings & Mummy can get some more sleep!

I am now working on him being awake for only 1-1.25hours during the day & sleeping for 1-1.5hours for naps. Fingers crossed I can then get a better routine!

Thanks for your help ladies.

Before I go- how does the 3 hour EASY work? I can only get a 2.5-2.75 Hour EASY the way I am working now:
E-15MINS
A-45MINS
(SETTLE TO NAP- 15MINS)
S-60MINS-90MINS
Where do I add extra time in to get to 3 hours?
Thanks
Jx

[texasmom]

Jodie,
One thing I finally had to do is NOT stress about the EASY.  I don't know if that is good advice, but it drove me crazy for such a long time.  I wanted Collin to fit into the perfect 3 hour routine, but it never worked.  I personally think the most important thing is to have routine in his life - like at bedtime and nap time.  And to have a routine that you do every day or most days.  Mine is pretty flexible, but some babies need less flexibility and more structure.  I think just keep him on the eating schedule, try to get good naps in, and don't worry about the rest.  Work on it if you want to, but don't drive yourself mad.  Hope that helps.
Brooke

Oh, and you could TRY the paci at the 4:45 feed, unless you know he's hungry.  Did he take a full feeding?  You might try tanking him up a little more during the day and then trying that.  Do you cluster feed at night?  I can't remember at what age Tracy recommends dropping the cluster feed.  I actually cluster feed and don't do a dream feed.  (Collin wakes more often with a DF)  He just recently started sleeping through the night feed.  So now we feed him at 7 and not again until he wakes in the morning - after 7. 

[Jodieplus2]

Thanks TexasMom, that's all I need to hear sometimes!

I have tried the paci the past 2nights at one of the wakings & it seems to be working- whoo hoo! I am just startingthe cluster feeds now, so hopefully that will help too.

Congratulations on getting your little one to sleep through the night- that must be such a nice feeling!
Jx

[texasmom]

I know what you mean!  Different people have helped me so many times by just saying the littlest things. 

It is a nice feeling that he sleeps.  It's been a long, hard road, but I learned so much, and I think now I would do a few things differently that would have made it happen sooner.  But it's nice to be able to share what I did learn. 

Hope things go well tonight. 

[Katet]

I too agree don't get yourself stuck in "it has to be a 3 hour EASY... it is the EAS concept that you want ie not falling asleep while feeding & if your lo is hungry at 2.5 hours or sleeps past the 3 hour so be it, they aren't robots , so good to be flexible when you need to.

[barbarab]

Just after a bit more advise as my lo went to bed at 7.00pm last night after having lots of cluster feeds before bedtime.  Then woke up at 1.00am when I gave her a feed but as usual, she only fed for about 10 mins and fell asleep.  Unfortunately so did I and woke up 3 hours later with her on my chest still.  I shh/pat her back into her bed but she wouldn't go back to sleep and wanted another feed which I gave her.  She then fell asleep 5 mins later, even though she had seemed really hungry and then wouldn't go back down. Eventually my dh took her and she fell asleep on his chest for 45 mins and then back to me.  I shh/pat her again and she went back in her bed, and is still there now at 7.30am.  I was doing so well before but seem to have taken 2 or 10 steps back again. Its my fault that I fall asleep in the middle of the night and I am frightened that she is getting used to feeding again to get back to sleep but she just wont settle with a paci and I can't get her to take any more food at that time?

[Jodieplus2]

Barbara- I can really sympathise- I have a very similar night last night! LO woke 4 times, 2 of them I tried getting him back to sleep without feeding- lasted about an hour each time for him to settle! I feel like a realy zombie today! Jx

[barbarab]

Yes, we had a pretty bad night again last night too.  LO went to bed around 7pm but didn't settle until 7.30pm - woke up at 12.45am and then I fell asleep with her in my arms till 4am and then she wouldn't go back down so my dh had to take her and then brought her back 45 mins later when she was still crying!  Put her back in her cot after a feed on the breast and she slept till 7.10am!  But now she won't sleep at all today, only been asleep twice today for 10 mins as our schedule is out of the window as we are doing a talk about babies for school this morning and this afternoon so no chance to do the EASY routine - she is going to be a nightmare all day as she is SOOOO overtired.  Sorry you are having a similar problem - god, i don't know how we survive - i think pregnancy prepares us for lack of sleep doesn't it - 5 nights ago Molly slept from 7pm until 3am and then straight down till 7am - I thought I had the EASY routine cracked but she fooled me and hasn't done it since - that said, I think the only reason that worked was because she had only slept for 1/2 hour all day!!  Hope your day goes better and today and night.  Let me know how you get on.... B x

[texasmom]

Just wanted to give some hugs to both of you.  Just keep up with the BW stuff.  Sooo many times I wanted to give up b/c I didn't think it was working, but then we'd have a breakthrough. 

Barbara,
I had a little thought...  you probably already know and have thought of.  I wondered if you could feed at night in a chair in her room or something.  Then she doesn't get used to being in your bed, and you won't have to wean her from that.  I completely understand that sometimes it's just a matter of survival... trust me...  I have rocked, brought him to my bed, co slept for naps, etc...  all in the name of ME getting some sleep too - and just wanting that kid to sleep, no matter what it took.   Looking back I think I made things take longer (learning independent sleep, etc...).  Don't know if I could have changed things, though, b/c it was so hard at the time. 

Hope you both have better days and nights. 

Brooke