Author Topic: RICE MILK? (Read 6425 times)

Mydreamcametrue · « **on:** October 03, 2006, 17:26:58 pm »

Does anyone have any experience giving their lo's Rice Milk?

My son is 14 months old and was on a hypoallergenic formula until 9 mos. old and then on Lactose Free Formula. At 12 mos, he refused whole milk.

Finally we have put him on Lactaid (Latose Free Whole Milk) and still seems very fussy most of the day. He was also just started prevacid for reflux. An upper GI confirmed it.

* Would you suggest cutting out all dairy and just sticking with the Lactose Free Whole Milk or cut out all diary and change to Rice milk?
* He does not get a rash, hives etc. from diary. He gets extremely fussy, gassy etc.

Also he is allergic to Soy!

Thanks,
Wendy

Mom to M&M · « **Reply #1 on:** October 03, 2006, 17:42:18 pm »

Wendy, it's relatively unlikely that he's lactose intolerant - lactose intolerance is quite common in adults but not very common in babies. It's more likely that he has an intolerance to the milk proteins - and lactaid milk won't help with that. Rice milk is a great option but very low in fat so you'd need to make sure to supplement fat in other ways, like olive oil, flax oil, avocado, etc. Did you say you were going to go to a feeding clinic? I think that's a GREAT idea. Often they have great ideas and could be of help with this issue - and perhaps the GI doctor there will also increase his Prevacid, which sounds like a low dose from what you've already told me.

Mydreamcametrue · « **Reply #2 on:** October 03, 2006, 17:47:24 pm »

Thanks Karen:

Another thought: Could I just try giving him the Hypoallergnic Formula again? That will have his vitamins, fat, etc.

I tried it yesterday, but he refused to drink it. YUCKY...

Thanks
Wendy

Mom to M&M · « **Reply #3 on:** October 03, 2006, 17:48:53 pm »

You can try but at his age and since he's already been drinking milk and eating some yummy solids it's unlikely that he'll drink the HA formula, which tastes pretty nasty. Are you giving a multi-vitamin?

Mydreamcametrue · « **Reply #4 on:** October 03, 2006, 18:00:46 pm »

Hey karen: I have been giving him the Enfamil Multa-Vitamin and putting it in his milk. I thought about trying the gummy kind. Not sure what they are called.

So what would you do??? Just eliminate all Milk and try Rice Milk? He is already in the low % for his weight, I don't want him to lose anymore weight.

I think we will meet with a dietician at the feeding clinic. Do you think I should wait until then to stop all diary?

Thanks,
Wendy

deb · « **Reply #5 on:** October 03, 2006, 18:04:40 pm »

Is he gassy with all dairy, or mostly whole cows milk? If it is a problem digesting milk proteins, you might have some success with yogurt, which has been cultured; the culturing helps to break down some of the milk protein so it's easier for some people to digest. The same is true for cheeses, although some are easier than others for the digestive system to handle. If yogurt is OK, try to find full-fat yogurt, like Stoneyfield Farms, which is also organic and SOOOOO creamy!

If not, I'd go ahead and get rid of all dairy till your appointment, and supplement with other good-fatty foods already mentioned, like avocados (Natalie LOVES guacamole!

, butter (sometimes tolerated where other dairy is not - but you'd have to find out if it would be OK for him), olive oil, dark meat chicken (fattier than white meat), flaxseed oil, and fish oil. Coconut oil is also EXCELLENT and great for high-heat cooking, which olive oil is not.

I've also heard of people having great luck with goats' milk; it's available at many health food stores.

Mom to M&M · « **Reply #6 on:** October 03, 2006, 21:54:30 pm »

If it were me I'd cut out all dairy for 2 weeks. If he feels better, maybe then try yogurt - like Deb said. You can also add powdered probiotics (look for dairy free one for children, we use Nature's Way Primadophilus for Children) to his rice milk or juice and this can help his immune system and digestive system.

I wouldn't do goat's milk for now - only because many babies who are intolerant to the cow's milk proteins have the same problem with the goat's milk - but it is an option as well - in fact my dad was on it as a baby!

When is your appointment?

Mydreamcametrue · « **Reply #7 on:** October 04, 2006, 00:52:04 am »

Hey: We got the appt with the feeding clinic for November 14th, but she said they have cancellations every week so more than likely would be sooner.

He ate yogurt today (4 oz.) and it gave him gas. I don't think it was really painful gas, but is stunk...

He has only drank 7 oz. of milk today.

Mydreamcametrue · « **Reply #8 on:** October 04, 2006, 01:42:41 am »

Oh Karen: probiotics ( did your doctor suggest that). I have never heard of that.

Does your lo drink milk now???

deb · « **Reply #9 on:** October 04, 2006, 02:17:21 am »

Probiotics are GOOD THINGS!!!

You can get them at many health food stores. They come in a variety of forms, usually pills or capsules for adults and powders for little ones; we get yummy chewables for Josie (she's going on 5 now). Most need to be refrigerated, and the powders you can add to baby food or mix with EBM/formula in a bottle.

Mom to M&M · « **Reply #10 on:** October 04, 2006, 10:25:20 am »

I got the idea for the probiotics from reading/friends but my doctor had no problem with it. We give Marisa 1/2 tsp/day of powdered Nature's Way Primadophilus for Children - I mix it in with her morning oatmeal/fruit puree. HUGE fan of them.

Diegos Mama · « **Reply #11 on:** October 04, 2006, 10:56:37 am »

I've done probiotics with my boys too in the past.

If you're seeing gas, I'd cut out all dairy for now. Poor guy... I like Marisa's mom's idea of nixing it for two weeks, reading all labels very carefully and seeing what that brings. You'll also have more info to bring to the feeding clinic if you do that trial.

Just try not to make more than one change at a time so you can definitively tell what's causing what.

Mydreamcametrue · « **Reply #12 on:** October 04, 2006, 11:04:11 am »

Thanks everyone. My hubby says that I better not do anything until we go to the Feeding Clinic. He hasn't even care to research this, so I will do what I feel is right.

Mydreamcametrue · « **Reply #13 on:** October 04, 2006, 18:21:30 pm »

I really think I am driving myself CRAZY. I can't even enjoy being a mommy anymore.

I went today and bought Rice milk to try, he liked the taste.

I really want to stop all Diary for 2 weeks (it want hurt him), but I just think I might drive myself crazy thinking about it.

This is so hard. I think I am just going to wait until we go to the feeding clinic to try anything new. I am just going to bascially stop trying for now, feed him like I have, stop worrying about everything and try to enjoy being a mom.

Karen: I did go and get some Flax Oil, thanks for the idea. I am going to add that to some of his foods.

Very stressed!!! -wendy

ryan's mum · « **Reply #14 on:** October 04, 2006, 18:36:55 pm »

We gave Ryan rice milk from 13 months up untill 2.5 yrs old when he stopped drinking milk .We switched to cow's milk at 12 months and it caused soo many problems , he was extra windy/gassy , stomach cramps and his night sleep got a lot worse ( night waking due to reflux anyway ) once we switched to rice milk he seemed a lot better

Mydreamcametrue · « **Reply #15 on:** October 04, 2006, 19:01:22 pm »

Ryan's mum: So you were not worried about him not getting fat, vitamins etc. I think that is the main thing that worries me. I got the fortfied Rice Milk. It did not taste bad at all, it was just really thin.

* I am assuming that your son was perfectly healthy and happy with the rice milk. How long did it take you to see an improvement?

Thanks everyone so much

binxyboo · « **Reply #16 on:** October 04, 2006, 19:12:21 pm »

We use Rice Milk too, as lo can not tolerate cows milk. At first I was worried about the fat etc. esp as we weaned from breastfeeding, but he can eat yoghurt so we make it up that way. I have been following your struggles on another board and wanted to reply but now cannot find it, so I will give my two cents here. If I were you, I would go ahead and take him off dairy now, so that you can let the feeding clinic know if you notice any changes in your son. That way you will be ahead, esp if you think it might be something they will suggest you do antway. As I was vegan for 13 years before I had lo, make sure you avoid all trace ingredients too. You can get tons of info on the internet, esp if you use brand name food. hth and good luck to you.
Ryan's Mum~ Have you had your appointment yet? Sorry to hijack the post!

Caroline-Charlies Mummy · « **Reply #17 on:** October 04, 2006, 19:30:39 pm »

Ds is on rice milk as a replacement to cow's milk - that causes tummy upsets/diarrhoea/nappy rashes and sleepless nights.

He seems to be thriving on it, and I make sure that he has enough in his diet (like soya yoghurt for calcium and protein/olive oil and avocado for the goodie fats).

Mydreamcametrue · « **Reply #18 on:** October 04, 2006, 19:36:49 pm »

I agree, I don't see where 2 weeks will hurt. He can't have soy (it did show positive to him being allergic). I am going to try the rice milk and I got some great info on the MSPI forum also.

I am glad to know that other lo's are on Rice milk also.

What was all your symptoms: ?

Your right, if I do cut out all diary and soy (which we do anyway), then I will be able to tell them at the feeding clinic if that helped or not. Very good point. And I am sure after they review his detailed history and saw how well he did as an infant on the hypoallergenic formula, they will tell me to do that anyhow.

Thanks again!!!

ryan's mum · « **Reply #19 on:** October 04, 2006, 19:41:23 pm »

Considering we have a very poor eater he is doing really well . Like previous posters we make up for it the best we can with other foods .We are waiting for our appt with the pead to discuss vitamins but this is due to him not eating well , we are hoping it will give him a better appetite and make up for the lack of fruit and veg he doesn't eat .
Our eating problems are due to reflux issues , he has food/texture aversions and we have tried everything we can , this has been going on since around 15 months. Also our pead didn't have a problem with us starting rice milk , he agreed Ryan would be better off cow's milk .We will hopefully get a nutritionist referal.

binxy boo ~ appt is next wednesday and i can't wait

binxyboo · « **Reply #20 on:** October 04, 2006, 19:48:00 pm »

Ryan's mum~ I am so glad for you. Keep us posted.

Riley would have horrendous poopy diapers, full of mucus etc. Even when I was nursing him I found if I ate a lot of dairy he would be crankier than ever. He has had a problem with excema since he was born, now that has gone away. Still on the fussy end of the spectrum but I think that's just his temperment~he's a joy when he gets everything his own way

Mydreamcametrue · « **Reply #21 on:** October 04, 2006, 23:19:39 pm »

Funny you say that about his tempermeant. That is what my hubby thinks is all wrong with Zach.

Maybe I have just read to much into to him whinning all the time. Maybe it is just his tempermeant. When he gets things his way, he is fine. If he had it his way, he would be outside 24 hours a day. Barely whines when he is outside.

I will get things worked out soon. I am sure the dietician at the feeding clinic, will offer a lot of advice.

binxyboo · « **Reply #22 on:** October 04, 2006, 23:35:52 pm »

Well, I am sure that in your case the reflux is not helping matters. If he is in pain , I am sure that doesn't make for a happy baby.Hopefully when he gets treatment, things will settle down for you all.

Mom to M&M · « **Reply #23 on:** October 05, 2006, 00:26:39 am »

Wendy, it doesn't sound like just temperament to me - especially when combined with his eating refusals. It's not unusual for our LOs to be able to be distracted from discomfort but he should also be happy other times - if not it's likely something is bothering him. If it were me, starting tomorrow, I'd do rice milk and NO dairy for 2 weeks and see how it goes.

Mydreamcametrue · « **Reply #24 on:** November 19, 2006, 03:26:10 am »

I just read back through this post that I started on Rice milk and wanted to give you all an update and see if you had anymore thoughts:

- I never did do the diary elimanation, I was just to nervous.

- We had our appt with the feeding clinic. They are tested him for all sorts of things.

- He has had 4 infections in the past 2 months and is now on his 4th antibotic (this time being a series of shots). He just was finished his last antibotic about 4 days ago and Friday his ears where fine, no strep, but white blood cell count was high again. He has also had diaherra off and on for 4 weeks now and a lot of muscus in his diapers.

Today he has not eaten barely a thing: 3 bites of applesauce, and about 3 bites of a corn dog. The feeding clinic wants us to give him only pediasure for the extra calories. Tonight he had about 5 sips of a milk shake and within 5 minutes had a diaper full. Then about 10 minutes about that he started crying in pain for no reason at all and about 1 minute later, you could hear it blow out in his diaper. It was ALL MUSCUS. And of course with some beans from last night mixed in. Oh and strawberries from the other day. Yeah he poops out all his food whole.

So can the repeated infections be linked to a Milk Allergy/Intolerance and maybe that is why he hates to eat?

I am just so so worried about him.

Thanks, Wendy

binxyboo · « **Reply #25 on:** November 19, 2006, 15:04:47 pm »

Quote from: Mydreamcametrue on November 19, 2006, 03:26:10 am

I just read back through this post that I started on Rice milk and wanted to give you all an update and see if you had anymore thoughts:

- I never did do the diary elimanation, I was just to nervous.

Wendy, I would be too nervous not to do the elimination at this stage. If it's not an intollerance/allergy, then you can rule that out fairly quickly by doing it. There's lots of info about all this online. If I was more computer savvy I could post links, but all I did was google "high white blood cells toddler" and came up with lots. Hugs

Mydreamcametrue · « **Reply #26 on:** November 19, 2006, 16:33:44 pm »

Hello: I agree. I am taking him back to the Childrens Hospital tom. to drop off his stool sample and I am going to demand they re-test him now.

I put in what you said under google and gots lots of info.

I said that a high white blood cell count could be linked to an allergy. So does it sound like he could have a hidden milk allergy and the doctors are just thinking it is something else?

IS your son still on Rice Milk?

Thanks, Wendy

binxyboo · « **Reply #27 on:** November 19, 2006, 16:50:51 pm »

Yes Riley is still on rice milk. He does tolerate yoghurt okay, but not most cheese. Just remember that allergy tests are not always accurate, which is why most practitioners will say to do the elimination diet just to be sure. If it is an intolerance, the test will most likely come back neg. but he will still have the symptoms he is having kwim? The reason why I would just bite the bullet and do it is because if he is having that much diarrhea , he is not benefiting from anything he is eating, as it's all passing through him. I would give it the full two weeks, making sure he has no milk derivatives either

Mydreamcametrue · « **Reply #28 on:** November 19, 2006, 17:21:24 pm »

I am going to call the feeding clinic first thing in the morning and ask about that. I will see what they say and then may just do it myself. I am the mother and know best.

So...... can you give me soem ideas what you feed your son? Zach barely eats anything as it is. He likes Nutragrain Bars, gold fish, etc. But with a milk-free diet, he could not have these.

Thanks Wendy

binxyboo · « **Reply #29 on:** November 19, 2006, 17:27:29 pm »

Riley eats all fruits and veggies , both as purees and finger foods, some rice, pasta, yoghurt, cereals, crackers like wheat thins, tofu. little bits of deli meat, quorn... That's about it. He doesn't eat huge amounts of anything, but I guess what he does eat is healthy. I think if Zach felt better, he would be more inclined to eat more and different things. Noone likes to eat on an upset tummy!

Mydreamcametrue · « **Reply #30 on:** November 19, 2006, 17:34:33 pm »

Humm your lo does not eat a wide range of stuff either. Zach will eat a variety of stuff, but only liek a bite or two.

So far today he has had:

Wake: Diaper full
Then drank 8 ox. of pediasure
Pooped again with in 30 minutes and it had mucus in it.

Then about 1.5 hours later ate about 5 bites of eggs.

That is it so far.

deb · « **Reply #31 on:** November 19, 2006, 17:48:36 pm »

I just remembered something with Natalie from way back. For a while she hd spinach-green poop that was very mucousy. Someone here suggested that carageenan might be the culprit - I was drinking rice milk that had carrageenan in it. It's seaweed=based, but apparently some immature systems don't handle it well, and she was getting it in my milk. I drank a different brand of rice milk for a few days and things were fine, then had a few swallows of the old stuff and it came back, so I'm assuming that was the cause.

Anyway, if he's still having issues and lots of mucous in the poop, I can think of a few thing OTHER than maybe carrageenan in the rice milk - I think Rice Dream does NOT have it, BTW.

If he's having antiobiotics frequently, his poor digestive tract doesn't have the good bacteria it needs to properly digest his food. Whenever I take antibiotics, I make sure to eat yogurt and take probiotics to "restock" the bacteria that belong in the gut so the food will actually digest. When my tummy's upset and I don't feel like eating, it's work to want to bother taking it, but once I do I feel MUCH MUCH better within a couple hours and my appetite returns somewhat - and my system deals with the food I do eat much better, IYKWIM.

Also, I know you're reluctant to do the dairy elimination, but at this point I think you have more to gain than to lose by it, even if you do it for 2-3 days. If you do it, though, I wouldn't do it at the same time as introducing probiotics, as you won't know what is was that set him straight (assuming one or both of them do it); I'd probably do the probiotics first to see if it steadies things in a day or two, then the dairy if not.

Just my non-medical suggestions....hope this helps - please keep us updated.

binxyboo · « **Reply #32 on:** November 19, 2006, 17:53:20 pm »

Well, I think his range is wide enough for his age and the fact that nursing was probably his main source of nutrition until he weaned...

I am actually glad that his faves are fruit and veg. He is offered healthy food that my husband and I eat, I don't want to go down the wrong road at this age with fried, fatty food etc

Mom to M&M · « **Reply #33 on:** November 19, 2006, 18:21:31 pm »

I agree with everyone Wendy - I'd definitely be looking to do a strict elimination diet for at least 2 weeks as well...

Mydreamcametrue · « **Reply #34 on:** November 19, 2006, 18:33:48 pm »

Thanks everyone: Zach woke up from his nap about 30/45 minutes ago and has been crying since

the only time he is not crying, fussy is when we are distracting him. And he would not eat his lunch either. 1 bite of fish stick and a few bites of baby food (bananas, grapes, and plums).

binxyboo · « **Reply #35 on:** November 21, 2006, 00:09:21 am »

How is Zach doing today?

Mydreamcametrue · « **Reply #36 on:** November 21, 2006, 00:15:26 am »

Hey there: He woke up in an awful mood and cried for about 30 minutes. He ate breakfast (well a few bites of his cereal) and then pretty much cried and fussed for the next hour. DH layed him down just after being awake for 1.5 hours and he sleep for 3 hours.

We then went to the Chidlrens Hospital, they are re-checking all his blood work and blood for allergies. I should have those results in one week.

Then came home and he fussed and cried since we have been home. He ate some watermelon for dinner and then fussed, so I put him to bed at 6:30 and he is asleep now.

So okay day.... DH and I talked about not having anymore kids tonight. We both wanted atleast 2 kids, but things have just been just a challenge with Zach we can't even enjoy being parents

ashti · « **Reply #37 on:** November 21, 2006, 23:00:49 pm »

Wendy,
I'm so sorry to hear things are going rough for you and your lo. (((HUGS)))
I think once you get to the root problem, you will see a huge change in your lo's temperment. It sounds to me like he's not feeling good and nobody likes to feel sick. I hope you find the reason soon.
Like previous posters, I think it sounds like a milk and soy protein intolerance. Right now we don't feed our dd soy or milk in any form. When we keep her away from milk and soy, she is much happier. Are you still feeding pediasure? That has both milk and soy in it. If it were me, I would put lo on a milk and soy free diet. The feeding clinic could help with ideas to get him the additional nutrients he needs. My dd can't even tolerate the tiniest amount of either, hidden ingredients, in prepackaged foods. When you said he had the corndog and fishsticks, but only a few bites, it got me wondering if that was his problem, since they both probably have either milk or soy in them.
I really hope your lo gets feeling better soon, so that things can be a little easier on him and you as parents.
(((HUGS))))

Mydreamcametrue · « **Reply #38 on:** November 22, 2006, 02:04:34 am »

Hummm ASHTI: You bring up such a good question.

My lo tested positive to being allergic to SOY when he wsa 9 mos. old. The allergist said to just avooid soy protien, but nothing about Soy Lethician (s/p), soybean oil, etc.

Man, Soy is is SOOO much stuff, one way or the other.

And yes you are right. Soy ingredients and milk are in both corndogs and fish sticks.

Today he has not eaten anything except for watermelon and about 1 mini corn dog. No dinner... He just whined and cried all night...

So what do you avoid as far as Soy goes? What are some things you feed your lo?

Thanks, Wendy

deb · « **Reply #39 on:** November 22, 2006, 02:20:59 am »

Just to throw in my two cents: back in late January when we put Josie on a REALLY restrictive diet - http://www.bodyecologydiet.com - for a couple months, I discovered it was easiest to cook my own foods from scratch. It was a HUGE time commitment at first, but in a month or so I got the knack of making enough and preparing far enough ahead of time that it got easier. It involved soaking grains and seeds (and eventually legumes when we put them back in the diet), and it drove us nuts for a while - I felt like I was spending my WHOLE TIME in the kitchen - but eventually we were able to put in some "normal" food (which for us was yogurt LOL) and also depend on leftovers once I actually cooked enough.

Cooking meat and vegetables, especially green ones, took the most adjusting to for us. At our grocery, frozen veggies (the easiest for me for convenience) come in 1-pound packs, and we were eating one of those at EACH MEAL for a while - but at the same time we didn't get sick AT ALL for nearly SIX MONTHS. Once I worked out that I had to cook MORE THAN a pound for a meal to have leftovers, we were golden.

The neat thing, though, was that I was eating salads almost EVERY DAY, the girls were eating vegetables EVERY DAY, we were exploring different seasonings, and Josie (who is admittedly older than your LO) became very into cooking - she and DH especially would cook lots of things together, and even now that we can even have pizza once in a while I make sure to include her in dinner at least every other day. The whole family was in better shape, Josie's whole demeanor changed for the better, and oh, yeah, I lost a LOT of weight - I went from about 150 pounds to 125-ish, where I still am now.

I also knew what was in EVERYTHING that came from our kitchen. I knew that there was NOTHING that should cause a problem - that was before I knew about Josie and corn, BTW (turns out that corn makes her act crazy, so she's probably allergic to it

) - and I felt SO GOOD about making it!

We all learned a LOT about nutrition and we still have what some folks would consider some pretty out-of-the-mainstream food choices here. We discovered that you can make kefir out of young coconut juice, for example - a nice fizzy drink that Natalie LOVES that is FULL of probiotics! We have also moved on to another food program called Nourishing Traditions and learned lots of cool stuff about alternative (these days) ways to make food - traditional foodways that have fallen by the wayside.

OK, I'm getting pretty tired now and have another 2 boards yet to peruse, so have to go, but wanted to put in another bit. It CAN be hard to avoid soy, but I think that at Whole Foods they have pamphlets for different diets, like dairy-free, gluten-free, and so on, and you can probably get some guidance there. Best thing, though, for us was to just cook from scratch.

ashti · « **Reply #40 on:** November 22, 2006, 05:16:29 am »

Wendy-
I avoid all milk and all forms of soy for my lo. I don't know if she can tolerate lecithin and soy oil yet, because I haven't tested her on them yet. I plan on doing it in a month or so. It would probably be up to you if you wanted try cutting out all of soy or continue to give lecithin and soy oil.
Since dd is just barely a year, we are still on finger foods. I bake bread for her from scratch. French bread recipes call for water and not milk. I give her lots of fruits, and veggies. Like tonight she had half of a sweet potato for dinner, with some banana and a handful of cheerios. I also give her beans, baby cereal, banana bread, raisins, rice, and meat like hamburger or chicken. I am always looking for more things to give her, since she gets bored pretty easily with what I offer, but it's mostly fruits and veggies and homemade breads.
If you do decide to alter your lo's diet, I would be sure you are getting him all the nutrients he needs, which would probably include the fortified rice milk and then good fats like previous posts have mentioned. I don't know for sure, but would guess that you would begin to see improvements within a week or two if that was the problem. Then at least you would know, I guess.
My dd ate 1 M&M she found and it caused us sleepless nights, whiny baby, bad diapers and skin rash for 4 days. Once it was out of her system we are back to normal.
I hope that helps...

Mydreamcametrue · « **Reply #41 on:** November 29, 2006, 00:54:23 am »

The test results are in: I just hope I am doing the right thing:

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=78283.msg663293#msg663293

News:

Author Topic: RICE MILK? (Read 6425 times)

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