Can protein cause sleep problems in 8 1/2 month old

[wfabby]

HI-
 
I have been struggling-for months with my lo sleeping at night longer than 2 hours.  Everyone in the sleep forum and everwhere else have been very helpful, but still having issues. 

Someone suggested giving protein at his afternoon meal instead of dinner?

He has diagnosed reflux with an upper GI but I have stopped all his meds and it seems to be slowly getting better.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

[brodysmomma]

I am not sure about the protein.  My son too has had many stomach problems and still struggles with sleep and he is almost 13 months old.  I would suggest giving him the food in the evening that is least likely to upset his stomach and to try and feed him dinner somewhat early.  The one medicine that we have found to really work is Levisin.  You might ask your doctor about it.  My son's stomach gets really tight and he passes a lot of gas.  You give the medicine as needed and it helps loosen the tummy muscles up.  Sorry I am not much help!  Good luck!

[wfabby]

Thanks for the advice.

I think I am just giving up on sleep for me.  Tried no protein for dinner but didn't touch sleep.

[Mom to M&M]

Why did you stop meds? If he has reflux the pain from that can definitely cause sleep problems.

[wfabby]

I am trying not to give up but it is hard.  I originally stopped his meds because his naps went from 1 1/2 in the am and 2-3 in the pm (this was at 5-6 months) to 20-30 minutes coinciding with starting the reflux meds.  His evenings have always been filled with waking up, but it seemed to worsen with the medication.  I spoke to the doctor to see if Prevacid had any sleep side effects and there were none listed, but she did say upset stomach could occur. Funny, fix one stomach problem, get another  

My lo's naps have improved lately after adjusting his routine and doing some w2s. He is averaging 1 1/2 hours up to 2 hours per nap.  Nights, well, nothing.  He went to bed last night 6:40, up at 11:00, 12:00, 1:15 then again at 2:00.  all waking were brief until the 2:00, and he was up until 4:30. Once I go to him, he will stop crying, but if I try to leave the room he will scream.  Not true of the brief wakings, but just the long ones.  He then is content but struggles to sleep, rolls in his crib, sits up, fusses, settles to what seems asleep, then wakes fully to start all over again.  He never seems in pain, like I said, not really crying unless I move away from the crib. He woke again at 5:15, then up for the day at 7:20.

I know he needs the sleep.  That is what is so frustrating.  I get mad, but I know he doesn't know any better and is struggling himself. How frustrating for him as well.

[wfabby]

By giving up, yes I mean trying so hard to make him do everything on his own, sleep etc.  It sure would be easier if I just rocked him to sleep when he is wanting to be up for 2 hours.  I could probably rock him and have him down in 20 minutes.  Yes, for sure he sleeps better with me.  After this has been going on for 8 1/2 months, there have been 2 or 3 times I have brought him in bed with me (though not for a couple months) on the first waking and he sleeps great.  He still may stir, but I can lay a hand on him and away he goes back to dreamland, and so do I.  I am trying to live a full life on no more than one consistent hour of sleep on average. He wakes and can go back to sleep quickly, but his room is across the house and by the time he is back down and I go back to bed, I am just asleep when he wakes again, so that is what I mean by "giving up".  I am trying to do things the "right" way and teach him to do things on his own, but no matter what it doesn't seem to work.

As for an alternative, that is why I am asking and have been asking for help.  I have adjusted his schedule and tried to use everyones wonderful advice hoping someone has the answer. 

As for props, he uses a paci and I can't really call it a prop, but I am still weaning it away.  He doesn't always use it anymore in the middle of the night or at nap time to fall back to sleep.  Today was his first full nap with no paci at all.

I haven't put him to sleep ever.  He has always been able to fall asleep on his own, maybe fussing one or two times at bedtime with me going back in to reassure him, but lately things are  a little different and explainable.  He is starting to crawl and that has interrupted his normal sleep routine.  The second I walk out of the room he is up on all fours and trying to stand at the side of the crib even when he was eyes shut as I left.  He probably is also experiencing separation anxiety as well, but again, all these behaviors have been going on since birth, except the long two hour wakings.  Those are probably happening because as soon as he wakes, he sits straight up in bed and begins the crawl thing and then wakes himself up to the point of no return.

I have tried other meds and have an appointment at the end of this month for his 9 mo well visit so I will discuss more options then.

He is on Enfamil AR and I have used every bottle under the sun.  I have a very picky son though and from very early on after refusing bf, which I now know was probably from reflux, he would only use certain nipples.  My doctor had me thickening his formula after time with cereal so he got used to cross cut nipples and faster flow and even different brands other than my current one will cause him to refuse the bottle.  He is JUST like his father. He knows what he likes and how he likes and sticks with it.

He also doesn't have any teeth yet, so I can also blame some of this on teething .  Not sure, but I do give him something for teething if I notice him tugging his ear and gnawing on his blanket more than usual.  And, I took him to the doctor already to make sure there was no ear infection or anything else.

I am just trying everything possible to help my beautiful son learn to sleep, but after so long, it becomes very trying and I don't EVER want him to think I am angry at him but I am afraid he will begin to feel my frustration at his age.   

[nathan_smom]

This will sound silly and well im  nosey but Im curious lol. Im not sure how you can even give up?  I dont know how you can not deal with it. Lilke you are gonna some how deal with this less? Is there some plan you have?  Does he sleep better with you or something? I dont mean to sound dumb, im just not sure how you can give up?  I dont really know an alternative...

OK so the wakings are brief  mostly and hes quickly settled? Sure there isnt a prop somewhere?  Are you putting him to sleep, is th ere a paci? Could he perhaps have seperation anxiety?

There are LOADS of reflux meds, maybe go back and ask for a new one?  Are you using special formula and bottles? 

In reference to the above reply....
I am just an "onlookier" who happened to fall upon this question, and  I take it is a very desperate, sleep deprived mom looking for some help. I think the last thing she needs is a condescending, ill written reply like the one pasted above...and to think that it was from a moderator...am I not reading this correctly??? I am appalled.
wfabby...
I understand your frustration totally.....hang in there and follow your gut.....I wish you luck with  your lo.

[brodysmomma]

I agree with Stacy!  Do what it takes for you and your baby to get sleep.  I struggled for so long with a baby that had tummy problems and you can't sleep train them.  The day I gave up on PU/PD, extended naps, etc. was the day I truly started to enjoy my baby and my life again.  I love the BW ideas, but when you have a baby that doesn't feel good it just adds to the stress!  Now that my son is one and finally feels better we are now trying to fix some of the bad habits we instilled when he didn't feel good (and it isn't too hard to fix them either).

Hang in there and rock that baby if it means you will get some sleep 

[Zoey]

Aww Wendy HUGS!

I thought you had re-started the Prevacid as a trial sweetie?  Did the pedi not give you the new script?  As I said before, put him to sleep however you can for a while - both of you rest up and then see what's what. 

You know, the best thing I ever did with Owen was take him to a Pedi GI specialist.  They deal with tummy stuff ALL DAY and can help tons.  Even if you and pedi feel it's not the flux causing this sleeplessness - how bout asking for a referral to make sure?  That way you can be positive and you can stratch that off the list as a possibility.  Or, on the other hand if it is the reflux - perhaps you can get a better med for your bub and you can all sleep!  We tried zantac, prevacid, and prilosec before arriving at zegerid and getting really great results. 

Like I said... there is no right, wrong or giving up.  There is finding and doing what works for you and your baby.  If that is using Easy loosely and rocking and co-sleeping... No one here is going to tell you that isn't the way to do things unless you say that it isn't working anymore and are looking for a new way.

Hang in there sweetie, you and Jake get into bed and get some rest.
Love and Hugs,
Zoey

[Mom to M&M]

Hi Wendy! Just an added message for more hugs and support. Like everyone has said, if co-sleeping and rocking, etc, make Jake feel and sleep better right now, I see no problem in doing that - I'd be doing the same! Like others have said, it's hard for a baby to sleep well if he/she is in reflux pain. And unfortunately, many Pedi's aren't really experts in this area. But since you posted on the allergy board, I also wanted to ask if he might have a dairy intolerance? Enfamil AR can be a good formula in terms of controlling spitting up but both the milk proteins and the rice starch in it can be hard on our LO's tummies. Have you ever though about a hypoallergenic formula to see if that would help? It worked wonders with my DD.

[Tonya]

I just wanted to send you {{{HUGS}}} too!!!

I had a refluxer, and you really just can't try to sleep train until it's well under control.  I did everything to get him to sleep, and honestly, I'd do it ALL again!!!  He slept in his car seat for months!

Anyways, just wanted to let you know that there is no right or wrong....take care of your baby, take care of you.  Sometimes, you just have to do what you have to do, whether it is the "right" way or not!

[wfabby]

Thanks for support.  My responses are indeed out of frustration and sleep deprevation.  I have restarted the Prevacid, but I don't notice a change in sleep yet.  We are on day three.  I am also taking Zoey and everyone elses advice and trying to wean the paci.  I am not sure if it is a prop, but I might as well get rid of it. He can't keep it forever anyway

Last night after 3 wakings I slept with him in the guest room (in case he still cried all night didn't want dh to be kept up).  He slept relatively well, actually we went in at 12:00 or so and if he woke through the night, I barely noticed.  He did get up very early though, just before 6:00am.

So my big dilema is can it really be his reflux if when he is with me, he does ok? I feel great today because of him sleeping with me which is huge, but I am still torn on is it reflux or something else?  paci?

I never really thought about a milk allergy.  Is it something that is diagnosed or do I just try a different non-milk formula and see how it goes?

I mean it when I say I appreciate all the suggestions, but yes, I am a very sleep deprived mom and that is why I have started to reach an end and sound like a b**ch, but today is a better day after sleep last night.

[Zoey]

Wendy, you didn't sound like a bi tch, just a concerned, tired Mum.   

Perhaps the difficulty is a mix of several things.  Remember PPI's take at least 2 weeks to see the full effects from them - a few days isn't going to show much.  I think you should keep with them for a month or so and see what happens.   I think it can only help him since he does in fact have reflux.  After a month or so, re-evaluate it.  I think perhaps it was a coincidence that he started to nap better when you stopped it before?  My thinking is, he has confirmed reflux, he isn't sleeping well, you have meds - may as well try them and see - right?   Again Pssst... the GI was the best move we made.

Karen can talk more about food allergies and diagnosing, but we use Alimentum and it works really great for us.

I don't know if the paci is a prop for your son either, like I said on your other thread - you will have to figure that out.  If it is a prop, I think it could definitely be causing sleep issues - of course that my opinion because Owen woke every hour all night when he had his - that's how we found BW in the first place.  How are you planning to wean it?

I just want to be clear with what I said because I feel very strongly against doing sleep training with a LO in pain and I wouldn't want anyone to think gave advice stating to just wean the paci in there was a question of pain: https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=73179.msg607927#msg607927

"The paci - this too is up to you.  If you can teach him to use it himself, then it may become a comfort item and a non issue.  But if you have to keep going in every 2 hours to give it back to him, that's yucky for you and him.  Know what I mean?  If you think pain is a possibility, I would keep the paci until the meds kick in and if pain was the issue maybe the paci won't be.  If it is still an issue despite meds, then you can decide then.  I wouldn't take it if he hurts though, a paci can help soothe pain from reflux because sucking makes them swallow more often."

"We suggest not using PD if we think baby is in pain, or has a prop, or an incorrect routine."

Sorry to have to defend myself, it's just important to me that what I said is clear.

I am glad you are feeling a bit better emotionally today.  I am sure Jake feels a bit better having gotten some sleep too.  I hope things continue to improve and you and Jake find a way to sleep that works for you both

Love,
Zoey

[Mom to M&M]

Best way to figure out dairy intolerance/allergy at this age is trial and error - you'd need to totally cut out dairy for at least 2 weeks (it can take that long for the milk proteins to get out of his system) and see if it helps - like Zoey said, Alimentum was really great for us for a while too. But also like she said, you might want to give the PPI a full 2 weeks first to see if it works and if necessary try the Alimentum after that - that way you aren't trying too many new things at once.

Glad you got some sleep last night! Until this is figured out, if it were me, I'd personally continue to co-sleep if that is what gets you both some rest. More hugs sending your way.

[wfabby]

Thanks guys.  I am continuing the meds to see, and working on the pacifier a little.  I used to offer the paci every time he was tired, but I am now trying only if he seems to be struggling to go to sleep. Last night I didn't offer it back to him once, but then again, he was in bed with me-who needs a stinkin' paci when mom is so close

It is amazing how many people around me who ask about his sleep try to convince me to let him cio.  How do people do it?  I feel terrible when he is crying for more than 1 or 2 minutes (if that).