any one want to chat how to 4 hour easy and beyond

[Sharon P]

Hi nursekat,

We are really going through so many similar things right now. Thanks for your advice. I have usually just done what you suggested and view each 3-4 hr block as a single uniti and work it out at the end of the day. It's just that Stacy suggested that DS may start to think that 5.50am or earlier as it was the night before, is a good time to wake up and form a habit. Perhaps we are just getting a little ahead of ourselves. After all, I should be celebrating the 7+ hrs of continuous sleep. But instead I am trying to wangle things in the day and DS is not good with that. After my last post he woke after 30mins, so he is now done on sleep for the day, already. He was able to wait till 11am for his feed, so I am going to try to start things all over again. I know he will need to be put down earlier than the 2 hr awake time, so I will watch closely and maybe let him sleep for as long as he needs. Tomorrow I am going to try your idea or just going in 3.5-4 hr blocks, I think it will fit more naturally with DS as he is very able to sleep 1.5-2 hrs and is the happiest when his natural rhythm isn't tampered with.

Thanks again, and it's lovely to keep bumping into each other across the boards!

Sharon.

[nursekat]

Thanks again, and it's lovely to keep bumping into each other across the boards!

Oh I'm so addicted it's hard to get away from me!  I'm the newest BW stalker!  LOL! 

I can definitely understand what you mean.  My LO is grizzling away in bed right now - she was showing ALL signs of needing to go down for the night, and I kept thinking, "But you have an hour to go for it to be 12 hours from your wake time!!"  So I managed to keep her awake another 30 mins and now I'm paying for it!  She's so overtired she is really really struggling to fall asleep, poor little girl.    So I'm eating my words of advice!  LOL! 

Wish us luck tonight...

[Sharon P]

Goodluck tonight. I know how many tough nights you have been dealing with. Hopefully things will improve soon.

Put DS down at 12.45pm. I can hear him awake again (after only 40mins). I am sure this is because I pushed beyond his tired signs. Just got to be so on top of things. Totally reinforces the need to remember that EASY is a routine not a clock watching exercise. You'd think I wouldn't keep making the same mistakes, after all I have been doing EASY since he was 3 weeks old! I guess each time I transistion into a new thing DS takes some time to adjust and I have to be more on top of his behaviour and stop second guessing myself. It's also hard without the dummy as I think that it masks so many things and gives you the chance to miss cues but still not suffer so much. I guess now that we are dummy free I need to reskill myself.

Speak soon,

Sharon.

[rebecaq]

Sharon,

My ds started doing the same thing when he dropped one feed during the day and went to 4 hour EASY.  This is when one can bend the rules to do what works for your baby.  In my case, he never ever took the df well and it would just wind him up. So I cluster fed him every single day. He would eat at 3, then again at 5 and AGAIN at 7. It worked for us, he's was an excellent nurser since the day he was born. He latched on perfectly the first time I placed him at my breast. So he didn't snack, he jumped at the chance of getting a full meal (kinda like his momma!). 

Since your ds slept through the df and is waking earlier, he's telling you that he didn't get enough calories to make it till morning.  So try to get more calories into him during the late part of the day and see how that works for you.

- Beca

[nursekat]

"When a baby is born, a mother is born"  I like this. 

And somewhere else on here I read, "Just remember that while you are getting used to your new life with your baby, your baby is getting used to life." 

Well Sharon, we had two nights in a row with one night feed between 8pm and 8am, so all is getting better.  I feel somewhat normal (but still working on my coffee this am...).  Although her bedtime was pretty bad - it took her TWO hours to fall asleep!  Which was THREE hours after her catnap!  I was worried she'd wake a lot from the overtired-ness, but she didn't.  What a good little girl.    I have to confess I gave her my thumb at one point when she wouldn't settle, and just when I was thinking, "Oh dear what am I doing?" she spit it out, turned her head, and fell asleep for the night. 

It's also hard without the dummy as I think that it masks so many things and gives you the chance to miss cues but still not suffer so much. I guess now that we are dummy free I need to reskill myself.

I know what you mean!  I think the only cry I feel really comfortable with is pain - it's pretty dang obvious.  The others I am working on still.  The good news was she spent all this past week being more fussy than usual (since we weaned the paci), but she's getting back to her normal, not-so-fussy self.  She just whines mostly, not cries.  Only now she gets really upset when I swaddle her - NOT when I put her in the crib - so I'm wondering if it's time for that to go?  Hmmm...

[rebecaq]

Nursekat,

I stole that phrase from a baby commercial here in Venezuela, I saw it when Santiago was 2 days old and bawled my eyes out! 

As for the swaddling, does she fuss when you are first swaddling her or is it the whole time until she falls asleep?  If it's only in the beginning it may be that she knows sleep is coming and is protesting. There bigger they are, the more they know, the more they protest!! LOL If it's the whole time I would say then maybe she is outgrowing the swaddle and may do well on her own. No harm in trying 

As for waking only one a night for the past 2 nights....AWESOME!!! 

- Beca 

[Sylvia.]

another tough evening, another tough night, i gave in last night and fed at 2am as she really didn't seem to take much at the df,

we started the day an hour earlier today, 5.50am, normally i can feed her and she will go back to sleep but i have decided to see how 4 hour easy goes from this time, this time makes bed time at 6.20ish, this is an okay bed time i guess, i will just have to do the bath routine at 5.30

i am amazed at how much of what you ladies are chatting about is so similar to what is going on with us

yesterday we went back to 4 naps (2 catnaps), i just couldn't manage to stretch dd out to an appropriate bed time, i put her in the sling and went for a walk with dd and she slept 30minutes, it didn't help our evening, took 2 1/2 hours for dd to finally stay asleep and then it was only 45 minutes left until her df which just didn't seem interested in

i can so relate to trying to push the activity time

i am so worn out, i just hope this time ends soon, i so need a break, dh is soooooooooo busy with work, never can have a day off and is also needing to work weekends, we just took another big job which i should not be complaining about

anyway i hope you ladies have made some progress and have had some decent sleep

[nursekat]

Oh RUSSYL, I'm so sorry to hear you are struggling today!  I know how you feel!

I, too, am amazed at how parallel a lot of lives are on here, and we are across the globe!  My DH opened his own business last year, and we were living on my salary while I was pregnant, so you can imagine his stress now that he is the sole provider.  So I am the sole parent, it feels like.  He can't be sleep deprived for his job, so I do all nights.  We both are feeling like we need so much from the other, but we have so little to give, too.    And while we are sooo in love with our LO, we feel guilty at being so stressed at what is supposed to be the happiest time of our lives!  I was talking to my best friend about this (who does not have children yet), and she said another friend of hers was going through the same thing.  She said she thinks it's a shame that nobody really talks about how utterly hard it is, they only talk about how wonderful it is.  It's like it's a social taboo to complain about how hard things are!

And can I just say...I have NO idea how you are doing it with two!!!!!!!!

Do you have the means for a babysitter?  Maybe just having dinner out with your DH (even if it's fast food!) would help?  I read Mimi's Mom's post on the May/June board and decided it was overdue time for us to get out and have a date. 

We are having a pretty decent day, although I messed up her afternoon nap.  I went to visit a friend that lives 30mins away that I haven't seen since dd was born.  I had it all planned out:  nurse, drive 30mins, visit 30mins, drive 30mins home, put her down for her nap.  Well, of course we hadn't seen each other in so long it was hard to get out of there in 30mins!  And then dd fell asleep on the car ride home, so her nap is all messed up.  And tonight is church group and she gets SO overstimulated in that nursery!  Luckily, she manages to fall asleep ok once we get her home, but I still feel guilty.   

Did your day go better just starting it early?  It's funny b/c the older B gets, the later she sleeps in - her days used to start at 6am, like clockwork, when she was first born.  Then it was 7am, then 8am, now I often wake her at 8:30!  Sorry, I'm not rubbing it in, just trying to tell you I know how it feels to start your day at 6!  zzzzzzz...

[Sharon P]

Hi Russyl.

Sorry that things are getting on top of you. Sounds like you are doing it tough, especially when you and DH are both taking so much on a one time. Is there anyone (family or friend) who could help out for an hour or so and just give you a break? We don't have family where we live, so I don't have such an option, but if I did I would be asking someone to take DS out for a walk in the pram for no less than 1 hr, rain, hail or shine, so that I could have a sleep. If that's not possible, give up on all house work and cooking for 2 days - any two days in a row - and call it your weekend off. SUre it doesn't take away the responsibility of dealing with your LO, but it may take the pressure off. I do this every weekend, simply as a way to define the weekend, as compared to the weekdays. I barely even bother to put the dishes into the dishwasher. DH doesn't pick up the slack much either, but I let that one ride and then get back on top of stuff on Monday.

Beca - thanks for the idea of cluster feeding. I will try that, though I am worried it may mean that DS snacks rather than eats a whole meal, so to speak. Eg. Yesterday I fed at 3pm, then tried to feed again at 6pm, before his bath. This was a reversal of our usual pattern and I tired it because I wanted to make sure he was awake enough to eat a full feed. But DS was more interested in chattering than eating, so I gave up and bathed him and then fed. He is not a comfort sucker and wont eat unless he is hungry. Anyway, I will try cluster feeding, anything to extend the nights past 5.30am, I am just so tired! . Also, I am not sure if I misunderstood you, or you me, but I do a DF each night at 10.30pm. And I have been supplimenting his DF (15mins each breast) with EBM (100mls). Therefore, do you still think that it is hunger that is waking him, or is my beautiful boy assuming that the rising sun and sound of birds chirping is his own personal alarm clock!? 

Sharon.

[rinajack]

I just wanted to pitch in.  EASY.  I call in an order of events.  And an order of events does not specify times LOL.  I have always been flexible with feed times by a  good half hour.  Still am, although these days they tend to get pushed back, not early.   From 2.5 months to 5.5 months my lo was a short napper.  So we did EASA, EASAS etc.  The only thing I didn't do was ES.  This often meant moving feeds earlier or later to avoid ES.  Even now I am a major cue watcher.  Lately she is on 4.5 - 5 hr EASY with a shorter gap near bed time, about 2.5-3 hrs.  Her A times vary anywhere from 1.5 hrs to 7hrs, average is probably 3-3.5hrs.   So we still have EASA all the time.  Her naps are pretty good now though, which is one good thing (at home anyway, out of the house and at daycare is a whole other story).

For bed times.  I believe there is a magic time for each lo.  We want our lo to go to bed between 7:30 and 8am.  She likes 6-6:30pm, so we live with that.  Earlier often leads to later sleep (not for us anymore but I don't think it is overtired related, DH and I get up at 5, I think this wakes her).

So for those of you struggling with bed times, have you considered moving the bed time earlier?

I too am going to keep watching this post, see how people get on, add my 2 cents every now and then.

[swan1]

Thanks Beca,
I will try the wake to sleep. she is just 20mins asleep now with her morning nap so I best run!! Ha
I'll let you know.
Will she ever be able to sleep by herself though without me being there to help her off?

[Sharon P]

Hi Swan1 - I think the idea is that the w2s strategy breaks the habit of catnapping. I may be wrong, but I think after a few days of intervening before your LO wakes, teaches her to move through the process and then she will be able to do it herself. Beca, or anyone, please correct me if I'm wrong though.

Rinajack - thanks for dropping in and sharing your wisdom. It is great to have your support.

My day has been a disaster. DS woke at 5.40am this morning. I fed him and then tried putting him back to sleep. He happily chatted in his cot for a hour (I hope this is OK, he seems happy so I leave him, as I don't want to send the message that this is a good time to start the day - let me know if you disagree). Then he went quiet for about 30 mins, so I think he may have had a catnap and then he woke and started chatting again. I then got him up and gave him a top up feed. At 8am he may have been tired, but I was uncertain and he seemed to pull it together so I let him go. By 8.30 he was obviously tired, so we went off to bed, but it was a nightmare to get him to settle and clearly I had missed the mark. By 9am he was asleep and slept till 10.45, when I had to wake him to go out. So I thought we had pulled it together and the day would be better from here, but I got home to put him down at 1pm, but he was already over-tired. He wouldn't settle, I ended up doing another feed at 2.30 - he fell asleep on the boob. When I tried to put him down he woke, I tired settling, no success, and by 2.50pm I decided to give him the other side of the feed and a short play and finally got him down at 3.30pm. I woke him at 5 pm and feed again (cluster feed plan) and then did the bath/feed/bed routine and asleep by 7.15. So, all in all a hard day. I haven't had him stay awake and be so hard to settle since he was a newborn, so I am putting this down to bad day and just hope that the night isn't too badly effected. Tomorrow I will be home all day, so I wont be missing those cues and dealing with overtiredness again (at least I hope not). 

Anyway, just thought I'd vent. Thanks for listening.

Sharon.

[rinajack]

The cues are just so important aren't they.  I find them so much more important than pretty much everything else.  Heres to cue reading!

[swan1]

Oh dear.......i've tried w2s yesterday and today and all that seems to happen is she wakes up and gets startled when she sees me.
We've given up and started taking her up after the 1st 45mins, even though I know she's still tired, but it's taking 30mins+ to get her back to sleep for the last 4days with no improvement or progress and I already have a 2yr old. Its hard enough leaving her downstairs for the initial 20min wind down not to mind going up for another 30+ during nap and then having to wake baby after 10mins for feed.
I'm so disheartened, I have an aching back leaning in over the cot trying to comfort her, patting and ssshhing. I have given it my all, all week and I just feel like I have failed. Everything is revolving around baby and toddler seems forgotten about....I'm beginning to think I should just he satisfied that she is sleeping 12hours at night and that's it....feeling lousy

[rebecaq]

Swan1 -

How did you do W2S? She shouldn't have opened her eyes at all...

I know it can be tough, hun {{{HUGS}}}  Unfortunately 1 week of transition to 4 hour EASY is not long enough. It can take up to 20 days or more.  Don't feel like a failure, if she budged her routine by 10 minutes then that is a victory!  Baby steps   

- Beca