any one want to chat how to 4 hour easy and beyond

[swan1]

Thanks Beca,
I rubbed her hands and she stirred but didn't wake, but I stayed at it til she did wake!! Obviuosly not meant to do that!!!
I read the book and there is only a small section on it.
The other thing is, the minute we bring her into her room now during the day for nap, she straightens her legs, arches her back and starts wailing before wind down at all...she knows where she's going and she fights it. I'm terrified she's going to take a disliking to her room/cot and not want to go in there at night time and she is such a good sleeper at night, we're afraid to rock the boat.

Another totally unrelated question I've noticed under my name it says this isn't kansas. what does that mean?

[rinajack]

A friend of mine lets her lo suck the dummy for 20 mins before each nap and bedtime, it calms her right down ( she is now 9mo and spirited and it still helps lots). And that, combined with maybe reading a story to both your los, might be a great start to a winddown, and would not need to be done in the room.  If you don't want the dummy to be a sleep prop, take it out when she is calm, before she goes to bed.  If she already sleeps with a dummy, then you are just giving it earlier in the process.

I think try the w2s again, now that you know she doesn't need to wake right up. She only needs to stir - like sigh, or move her hand, or something.  It will only take you a sec to do this, and if she still wakes up at the 45min mark and you don't feel like fighting her, that is up to you.  But trying the w2s again would only be a small effort, and if you do it prepared to get her up if it doesn't work, then there is also very little stress involved.  But do remember, it can take like a week of trying to make it work.  Good luck.

[swan1]

THanks Rina,
I will try the w2s again for definite tomorrow. All I need is something...a slight improvement.something that will show me I am going in the right direction and all this hair pulling isn't in vain...it will encourage me to continue too...
No she doesn't take a dummy. I tried every kind, shape/material but no way will she keep it in her mouth. DD1 was the same and I'm glad now that she's 2 but this dd2 is a sucky baby, i think she would get comfort from it, but she's not having it.
According to Tracey's know your baby quiz she is Textbook leaning towards angel

[nursekat]

The phrase, "Toto, we're not in Kansas anymore" is from the Wizard of Oz.  A classic movie in the US (is it not famous elsewhere?) - the first movie done in color. 

[rebecaq]

Swan1,

Rina gave you great advice. W2S should only be done quickly and jsut till you see a change in breathing pattern, a sigh, any little signs that you see disrupted their sleep without waking them. 

As for the phrase under your name....hee hee hee. When Dorothy arrived at Oz she was completely out if her element and in a new place. So that's the phrase for our new members, the more posts you have you will see your name change. Some are BW groupies, some need their daily BW fix. It's just a fun wau of showing people's ranks 

- Beca

[swan1]

I get it now....I'm very slow....
Yeah wizard od Oz is famous in Ireland too, but I must admit I haven't seen that movie in years.

When I did w2s, she didn't move a muscle except to curl up her hand and didn't change her breathing because i was waiting for that and I think we frightened each other when her little eyes popped open!

I'll try it tomorrow..fingers, toes and anthing ellse you can cross crossed!

[rinajack]

You don't always have to touch their hand.  Try gently stroking her cheek or something instead if she wakes so easy when you touch her hand.

My lo did not like a dummy either.  The only ones we eventually found that she likes are the NUK ones.  I also know 2 other people whose los only liked those too - have you tried those ones?  And have you tried letting her get used to it during A time before you expect her to sleep with this new thing?

[rebecaq]

My ds loved his dummy.................for rocket launching!  I swear he could spit them out across the room! 

Now?? He sucks his fore and middle fingers, backwards! Yup, palm facing up, I swear it's the most bizarre way of sucking fingers I ahve ever seen! 

- Beca

[rinajack]

That is so funny.  I used to wish Zara would suck her thumb but she is now learning to put it in herself (unfortunately there is a "right" way).  Plus we put her down for every nap and bed time without it now, and then only go and give it to her if she starts to get agitated or upset.

[Sylvia.]

okay so we are back to 3 1/2 hour easy, she just can't make it to staying awake for 2 hours

can't believe i actually woke dd this morning, gee i have to start the day so why should she be able to have a lay in when she woke me all night, i really am trying to keep a strict routine, up at 7am, with dd1 i let her sleep as long as she like as i could easily adjust her day but this is so much more difficult with two

i was convinced her night wakes 2 after df were habit but i am not convinced anymore, the times are consistently the same for a few nights and then change, i am going to have i real good go at tanking her up in the day, she still feeds more frequently in the night than in the day, last night i tried to resettle her once and then gave in and feed after 15 minutes, poor dear, dh tried to resettle her with her next waking and nearly had her a few times, he is much better at it than me, she screamed so loud and hard i caved, not sure if these night waking are routine related, i guess when i get it right it will all change again

all the best ladies

[Sharon P]

Hi Sylvia,

Sounds like a good idea to go back to 3.5hr EASY. If you're DD is not handling the A time then it is only going to make getting her to settle harder and also perhaps cause catnaps. In the lead up to transistioning to the 4 hr EASY my DS was also waking eratically in the evening, and had never in the past, and was also waking twice during the night, after DF. Since moving onto the 4 hr EASY he has started sleeping through (that is from DF to 5.30+ am). I share this to hopefully help you believe there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

I ended up delaying transition to 4 hr EASY for a couple of weeks beyond when DS was showing signs needing to move to 4 hr EASy but wasn't handling A time. So I never did any of these suggestions, but I thought I'd share what others offered to me.

Option 1 - go to 3.5 hr EASY - which is what you have done.

Option 2 - Just let DS sleep longer. Eg. If feeding 4 hrly, but only able to manage 1.5 A time, then let DS sleep 2.5hrs. I didn't beleive that he could manage a sleep that long, but strangely since moving to 4 hr EASY DS is easily sleeping the 2 hr, yesterday I let him go 3 hrs (because it fitted into a work commitment). I'm not sure if you are battling short naps as well, so that may not help, just a thought.

Option 3 - was to follow Josie's thread. Here is the link

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=649.0

Anyway, food for thought for you.

Take care and keep checking in with updates. Whatever the way I'd say you're only a short time away from things settling down.

Sharon.

[rinajack]

How are you all going with this?

[Sharon P]

Hi girls,

Well what a life without BW. So sad to have been without all the support.

We have been travelling OK overall, but not great. The 4 hr EASY is fine for feeding, but DS has become extremely difficult to put to sleep. I mean up to 50 mins of screaming at the top of his lungs. I have tried all normal settling strategies, that have previously worked, but I just can't manage to find a solution. It is not every sleep, but most. I have tried reducing the awake time, increasing the wind-down ritual etc, but can't seem to nail it. It just seems that the only thing that helps is if he decides to let it go.

It even got so bad that a few tiems I have fed to sleep in the middle of the day! He has also started catnapping, ie 50 mins and back up and into action. I have managed to get his morning sleep back on track 1.5-2 hr, but the afternoon is only 50 mins. He seems to wake happy though, so I have been going with the flow if he has had a good morning nap. He seems to rarely show tired signs, but then when you try to put him to bed he is just so over-tired, so obviously I am missing something. 

Night sleeps are up and down, but no complaints. After moving onto 4 hr EASY we had 5 days of sleeping through from DF to 5.30/6.30am. Then we have had a couple of other nights like that and then last night I had to wake him at 7.10am (hooray). Not expecting it again tonight, but you never know.

Have moved him into a grow bag in last two days/nights. Fifured his sleeps were bad anyway, so might as well. Doesn't seem to have effected his sleep negatively, so very pleased.

Also think he is teething...and today he started rolling, front to back and back to front a few times. Very pleased mummy, daddy and bubby too.

So, would love to hear how everyone else is doing too.

Bye for now,

Sharon.

Just thought I'd add that DS has continued to be highly distractible during his feeds, but is gaining weight steadily and at the 75th percentile so just have to live with the boobing on and off.

[rinajack]

sharon, sounds like the only thing you haven't tried is longer A time?

[Sharon P]

As in more than 2 hours?