any one want to chat how to 4 hour easy and beyond

[Wei]

Aha!  I guess this is the boat that I seem to be stuck in.

DD is in 3.5 HR EASY since 13/14 weeks.  She is going on 17 weeks in a couple days.  When we went onto the 3.5 HR EASY DD started sleeping through the night (hooray!!).  Funny thing was, she slept through near hurricane winds alright so the noise sure didn't bother her!  I think we had an occassional wake up at night once but if she wasn't crying then she'd settle back.

These last few days however she has been having night wakings.  Not hungry I don't think b/c it's only been 2 hours since her dreamfeed so I go in to pat her back and she calms down to sleep once again.  She might wake up a few hours later but she goes back to sleep by herself w/o me coming to help her.  She also has been waking up an hour or two earlier on occasion, but will sing herself to sleep or just lay there till wake up time.

So I tried to go onto the 4 HR EASY but she just couldn't manage the long awake time consistently.  If she managed 2 hours, she could only sleep 1.5 hrs and then the rest of the day was kinda funny.  So, I think we are back to 3.5 HR EASY again.  I am hoping she will manage the longer awake time soon.  I guess part of the problem of a 4 HR EASY is that LO is a very efficient eater so she can normally empty my breast within 5-10 min so she is left with 1 hr 50 min of play time which is very long.

Glad I'm not the only one going through this!

Wei

[publico]

I will be returning to work on 21 November.  5 days before my textbook baby's 4 month birthday.  I am looking for advice on when to start moving to the 4 hour EASY (before or after I return) given that the work transition will already be disruptive to her.  What complicates matters is that at Christmas we will be flying from London to Canada disrupting her routine for two weeks at the end of December.  Thanks in advance.

[Sylvia.]

hello ladies, things have finally improved for us, dd naps well in the day, easy to settle and if she does wake up at 40 minutes, once or twice a week i can resettle without doing anything other than that static from the radio, she now settles better at night, sometimes straight to sleep and other times it takes up to 30-45 minutes with some reassurance from us, last night she slept from df until 6.00am, i bet you can guess i am happy about that, this has not been the first time in the last few weeks, infact we has several days of this in a row, not sure why the change, i guess she is just getting older and i am also trying to feed her longer, i am really pushing her day feeds, making sure she empties the breast and then offering and encouraging the second breast, dd is now 5 months old, so that is our update, talk again real soon, missed you all when the site was down, sylvia

[Wei]

Wow, Sylvia that is fantastic!! 

I will keep your success story in mind during these few days as encouragement!  DD is 17 weeks and in 3.5 HR EASY... hopefully when she is able to stay awake for 2 hours I can then have a bit more predictable routine with a 4 Hr EASY.

I'm glad it worked out for you!!  I hope my LO will do the same!

Wei

[EMRW Mum]

Hello mums
I'm new here and after reading this message board I feel like I have some similar questions and issues and was hoping to join in.
My lo is only 3 months old but has been on a four hour easy (or as close to easy as we can get so far).  Eating at four hours is pretty much a given with Emma.  The sleeping and activity time is our latest challenge. She used to sleep for long stretches after 1 - 1 1/2 hours of awake time.  Lately she is staying awake a lot more in the am around 2 hours and sleeping almost the entire afternoon.....(asleep around 11:45 after her 11:00 bottle) and up at 3:00 for her 3:00 bottle.  She almost always gets tired around 4:30 and would sleep straight through until 4:30am if I let her.  But she usually hasn't had enough to eat so we have been waking her at 7:00 in the hopes she would sleep through the night (till at least 6:00)  I'm not sure what to do now....
Are there any suggestions?

Corrine

[Gabriella]

Hello Ladies,

Can I join please?

We started ds on 4 hour EASY two days ago. We are trying to stick to the five-day plan lined out in the book for babies who have never been on a routine. DS is doing amazingly well, we only had one night out of hell and he slept the second one through from 7.15 pm until 6.45 am, with DF at 10.30. This was the first time he's ever done this, so far he's been waking up at least two times a night.

I know that EASY is not a schedule, but for the training days Tracy especially recommends watching the clock and making sure times are correct. So I have a few questions:

1. When DS wakes after 1h20-1h30 nap, do I try to put him back to sleep with PU/PD? Get him up and do A-time? I tried PU/PD the last two times, but he never went back to sleep, so I just got him out of bed when it was time for his next feed.

2. DS is very out of sorts after his catnap. He wakes up at 5.40 pm and he's not supposed to eat until 7. I try to keep him entertained, but he is just not interested. Is it ok to feed him at 6 and then top him up after his bath, before bedtime?

3. Let's suppose DS wakes up at 6.15 am instead of 7. Do I do Pu/PD to keep him in bed until 7?

4. We always put on the same music when we are putting DS in bed. Usually we leave the music on the whole night (low volume). Is this a prop? Or is it ok to use it?

5. DS has had a dummy since he was a few weeks old. He usually falls asleep with it, then promptly spits it out. DH was wondering if we should wean him from the dummy now, but I reckoned getting on the routine is enough stress in itself and I am thinking of weaning him a bit later. What do you think?

6. What do you do when DS wakes up for his DF? He usually starts crying around 10.30 and he gets his bottle, but then it's not a DF anymore, is it? (Yesterday he didn't wake up, so we managed to do a proper DF)

I'd be grateful for any comments.

Thanks,
Gabriella

[Sylvia.]

hello Gabriella and welcome you have some great question and i can't wait to read the replies

here are my thoughts

1. i never extend if dd sleep this amount of time, does ds wake from his naps happy? if he is happy to stay in his cot till the next feed good for you, i wish dd would do the same, she wants up

2. how long is your ds cat nap, i always feed dd heaps earlier for this feed, sometimes i feed again after bath, i would be really really interested in any relies here as we can never seem to manage the evening with out heaps of fuss and work

3. could this 6.15am time be your ds natural wake up time? could you start your day here, i would say it is 2 early, i feed dd if she wakes at this time, i treat it as a night wake and then wake her up at 7.30am

4. i don't think the music is a prop worth worrying about, baby can't lose it, and you can take it with you anywhere you can, go for it i say especially if it is helping, what do others think?

5. can't answer this question as we do not have a dummy, but i would say work on one thing at a time

6. everynight i hold my breath and pray that dd doesn't wake for her df, the last 2 nights she has woken 30 minutes before, lucky for me she resettled, could you try doing the df at 10.15 before he wakes and if this works after a few days try pushing the feed back to the normal time try doing the feed later by five minutes for a say a few days and then another five minutes .....

gee gabriella i am always worried about giving advise, this is just my thoughts i am not an expert, i hope you take it as just some chat to help you work out what is right for your precious ds

hello corrine some glad you have joined in, could you post your routine for us to have a look at

so after being on 4 hour easy for sometime we have gone backwards in the last few days, dd has a cold, today she fell asleep where she was, bless her, i transfered her three times and is still sleeping after 100 minutes, this is her longest nap for ages, just recently she has been doing shorter naps and i was just starting to wonder why

talk again soon

[Gabriella]

Hi Russyl,

Thank you for your reply. DS did really well last night again. He only woke up once at 5.30 and we just put the dummy back into his mouth for him to fall back asleep right away.

Here are some thoughts on what you said:

1. i never extend if dd sleep this amount of time, does ds wake from his naps happy? if he is happy to stay in his cot till the next feed good for you, i wish dd would do the same, she wants up

No, he is not happy. Actually he's been waking up screaming ever since we started EASY. He screamed all the way while I was trying to keep him in his cot. This is why it's quite traumatic: I try and keep him in there screaming, pretending to put him back to sleep, knowing full well I'll get him up soon for his next feed...

2. how long is your ds cat nap, i always feed dd heaps earlier for this feed, sometimes i feed again after bath, i would be really really interested in any relies here as we can never seem to manage the evening with out heaps of fuss and work

He sleeps 40 minutes on the dot and wakes up on his own. I think I will try and feed him at 6 o'clock tonight, otherwise he is just sooo miserable during that hour and a half and it's a shame as he used to love his bath time.

3. could this 6.15am time be your ds natural wake up time? could you start your day here, i would say it is 2 early, i feed dd if she wakes at this time, i treat it as a night wake and then wake her up at 7.30am

He woke up at 7.05 am this morning, so I hope that his biological clock is set on 7 am. In any case, I am not ready to get up before 6.45, so if he wakes before that, I would try and keep him in bed.

4. i don't think the music is a prop worth worrying about, baby can't lose it, and you can take it with you anywhere you can, go for it i say especially if it is helping, what do others think?

Last night the batteries of iPod died, so DS slept without the music and he did just fine. So I guess I'll keep turning it on for the bedtime ritual and then just switch it off later on.

5. can't answer this question as we do not have a dummy, but i would say work on one thing at a time

Good job on managing without dummy!!!

6. everynight i hold my breath and pray that dd doesn't wake for her df, the last 2 nights she has woken 30 minutes before, lucky for me she resettled, could you try doing the df at 10.15 before he wakes and if this works after a few days try pushing the feed back to the normal time try doing the feed later by five minutes for a say a few days and then another five minutes .....

Since  he's on EASY, he stopped waking up for DF. I fed him at 10.40 last night, he gulped down 180 ml and fell back asleep happily without dummy, without music. :-)

gee gabriella i am always worried about giving advise, this is just my thoughts i am not an expert, i hope you take it as just some chat to help you work out what is right for your precious ds

Thank you so much for the your thoughts. It's nice to see that other people have similar issues. I am sure we'll all have it cracked soon.

so after being on 4 hour easy for sometime we have gone backwards in the last few days, dd has a cold, today she fell asleep where she was, bless her, i transfered her three times and is still sleeping after 100 minutes, this is her longest nap for ages, just recently she has been doing shorter naps and i was just starting to wonder why

I hope the cold goes away soon... It's no fun to have a stuffy nose.

Take care and thanks again for sharing your ideas.

Gabriella

[rinajack]

EMRW mum, I think your lo is a bit too young for 4 hr easy.  If she is doing A times too long for a 3 hr Easy, try a 3.5 hr easy for a while.  You really need them to be doing consistant 2 hr A times to be on a 4 hr easy.

Gabriella - my thoughts for you.

1/ If you take lo out of cot and out of room, is he happy then?  If so, nap time is over.  If not, then you need to work on extending naps, the mods in the nap area can help you.

2/ Lots of babies this age have extra feeds at that time of the evening.  It is called cluster feeding.  I still do it with my 7mo  - feed before and after bath - she takes more this way, but I do it because she is often too tired to drink her last bottle right before bed.  So feel free to feed after the catnap, and again right before bed.

3/ You can choose whatever time you like for the wakeup time. Good luck.  Most little ones can be manipulated into a suitable wakeup and bedtime.  Unfortunatley my lo is not one of them.  She goes to bed at 6pm, wakes at 5am.  Like clockwork.

4/ I agree with Sylvia about the music

5/  There is no hurry to wean the dummy, doesn't sound like it is a problem.  Most people only wean the dummy if it causes more problems than is solves - for example baby wakes when it falls out, and parents have to keep on going in to put the dummy back in

6/ Good work on DF.  Keep in mind for all feeds - if they completely drain bottle you need to be offering more - if they leave a tiny bit, maybe 1/2 oz in the bottle you are offering enough.

HTH

[Wei]

Ok... so we are on 3.5 HR EASY still but I'm finding she is waking up earlier and earlier.  She used to wake up at 8am no prob but now it's 6:30am.  Normally, she would be able to go right back to sleep or content to lie there until she did fall asleep but now she's fussing like crazy.  So, I go in when her fussiness starts to escalate (about 40 min) squirt 1/2 tsp water in her mouth and she MIGHT be quiet.

Even our 3.5 HR EASY is completely out to lunch at times.  Sometimes, it seems like LO is extending her awake times and other times it's a lot less... I think she just wasn't sleeping well in middle of the night. 

also, the last 8 days whenever I go to dreamfeed, she seems to be waking up when I pick her up, during, or when I put her down after dreamfeed.  I tried to go 15-20 min earlier and that didn't change anything... and I tried to go a bit later but that was harder b/c it would get too late at night...that didn't work either.  Could her waking up at dreamfeed affect earlier wake up times?

Thanks for listening!
Wei

[rinajack]

Wei - it was when my lo seemed to get disturbed by the DF that I dropped it.  I went cold turkey but planned a day i advance - I offered more in every bottle, cluster feed large amounts, then didn't do DF and she slept through.  You could try this to see if the DF is now disturbing her nights sleep it could be.

Alternatively, maybe your lo is hungry in the mornings?  Maybe she is in a growth spurt?  Have you tried feeding to see if she will go back to sleep?  Offering more during the day could also help with this issue.

Finally, early wakeups can be overtiredness.  What time is lo going to bed - maybe you need to make it earlier?  If I put my lo to bed after 6:30pm, she wakes before 5am.  Every single time. 

[Gabriella]

Hi Rinajack,

Thanks for sharing your ideas.

Gabriella - my thoughts for you.

1/ If you take lo out of cot and out of room, is he happy then?  If so, nap time is over.  If not, then you need to work on extending naps, the mods in the nap area can help you.

Yes, he is happy when we finally get out of the room. DH thinks it is bad parenting if I try to make him sleep for 40 minutes then take him out of the room because it teaches him to scream for what he wants. I don't agree. Any ideas?

2/ Lots of babies this age have extra feeds at that time of the evening.  It is called cluster feeding.  I still do it with my 7mo  - feed before and after bath - she takes more this way, but I do it because she is often too tired to drink her last bottle right before bed.  So feel free to feed after the catnap, and again right before bed.

We are doing a feed at 6 pm then again right before bed. (But I don't let him fall asleep on breast) Seems to work.

3/ You can choose whatever time you like for the wakeup time. Good luck.  Most little ones can be manipulated into a suitable wakeup and bedtime.  Unfortunatley my lo is not one of them.  She goes to bed at 6pm, wakes at 5am.  Like clockwork.

Poor you... I would not be able to cope, I am soooo not a morning person. DS goes to bed around 7.30-7.45 and sleep usually until around 7 am.

6/ Good work on DF.  Keep in mind for all feeds - if they completely drain bottle you need to be offering more - if they leave a tiny bit, maybe 1/2 oz in the bottle you are offering enough.

I put usually at least 200 ml of breastmilk, sometimes a bit more depending on pumping, but so far he's only taken 180 ml. So I freeze the leftover.

Thanks again,
Gabriella

[rinajack]

instead of fighting your lo for 40mins then come out, accept the nap at the time it ends, and bring out of room then.  not worth the fight I don't think.  so your day will be more like

EASA EASA EASA instead of EAS EAS EAS .

no harm in that. Any nap that is over 1 hr is pretty good I think.

[Sylvia.]

gabriella, if ds sleeps 1.2-1.3 and is happy if you get him up i would just go with this

just out of interest how long between the feed before the 6pm feed and his previous one, these are the two closest feed for dd? how did it go last night?

[Sharon P]

Hi girls,

Well things have gone for bad to horrible. DS is now all over the shop. He is fighting sleep more than ever before (screaming the house down for every sleep)despite trying to reduce/extend activity time, increase wind down, increase stimulation/reduce stimulation...the list goes on. And now he has also become a catnapper for morning and afternoon sleeps, I can set my clock to him. So we are now looking at 3 x 50 min sleeps rather than the 1.5-2 hrs in the morning and afternoon plus catnap, that was going so well. This has effected feed times too, as DS has such and expectation of feeding on waking that I can only manage to hold him out for 30 mins, which brings us back to 3-3.5 hrs between feeds. I have asked for advice on the naps forum to extend naps and it was suggested that I had to get the EASY stuff more sorted first before trying to extend naps. So, I'm trying, but that's esier said than done. DS has also started protesting when he is put to sleep at 7pm, which has never happened before and has being waking earlier and earlier prior to his DF. Last 2 nights it has been 9.45pm. And on top of all this he has started to wake a couple of times a night, though not every night. So I feel pretty lost and disheartened, not to mentioned tired! DS son is also looking so tired, so I put him to sleep early tonight and may do that for a few days and see if it helps. The tiredness must be a vicious cycle and possibly the root of all our problems..what do you think?

Sharon.