Newbie here - must you gradually change from 3 hr easy to 3.5-4hr?

[mac_clarey]

Hi, I was wondering of anyone can help? I am at the end of my tether and things are going from bad to worse. My ds is 13 weeks and has been on 3 hour easy since 3 weeks old. It has never worked despite me sticking to it, to the extent that I have a daily diary of all his activity since 1 week to 11 weeks old. Basically the main problem is sleep, or lack of it. He used to nap well  but night times have always been a nightmare. Now his naps are typically 20-30 mins after 30-60 mins crying. He wakes at least 6 times a night and previously only settled by being cuddled and brought into our bed, now this isn't working (altho I know it wasn't the answer anyway).The result is he is totally exhausted and npw when he does sleep I don't like to waken him which leads to us being way out with his timings leading to us sometimes missing bathtime as he is far too tired and it is much too late anyway. I am totaaly exhausted, on Sunday I fainted and split my head open so things obviously can't continue. Today I thought I would reread both BW books again for one last time and I noticed the section on transferring from 3 hour easy and the case study sounds exactly like my ds. My question is must I go through the whole transition process or can i try 3.5/4 hour easy right now since our schedule isnt working and is pretty much now all over the place anyway?? Sorry for this post being so long. Any comments would be greatly appreciated.I'm dreading another nighttime.

[deemum]

hi, i don't think i can help you as i'm quite new too and my dd is only 5 weeks old but i just wanted to sympathise. i just had a run of bad nights, but i don't know what i'd do if it was still like that at 13 weeks. hope things work out for you and someone can help, this website has some wise women on it, i've gotten some great advice here.
best of luck,
Dee

[mac_clarey]

Hi Dee, thanks for your sympathy! I guess I'll get there eventually!! Hope you get things sorted too.

[franchick]

((((Hugs)))) I am so sorry to hear about you fainting and splitting open your head - that is definitely not a good thing to have happened. Please try and take at least half an hour to yourself to put your feet up and have a nice cup of tea. Maybe try a relaxation tape or CD if you can get someone to watch your LO for a little while. Look after yourself as best you can.

Well, we really struggled with the switch from 3 hour to 4 hour - I knew for ages that our DD needed to make the switch, but I just couldn't actively do it, I don't know why. In the end, her routine got all messed up when I went back to work full-time (she was 5 months old), and I eventually learnt to let go and go with the flow. She is now 16 months old and has a very good routine, albeit it is a slightly different routine depending on who is looking after her each day.

We had, at the beginning, a perfect 3 hour routine, it was just that in-between time of trying to switch to 4 hours (which does eventually happen anyway, ime).

I think some of the other ladies will have lots of ideas for you, but my gut reaction is that if you think a 3.5 / 4 hour routine might work for your LO, then it is worth just going for it and seeing if it works - by the sounds of it, if it doesn't quite work out, then you won't have lost much, but you may gain some more insights.

The only word of warning, though, is that your LO may struggle to handle longer awake times as he is already way over-tired. I guess if it was me I would try and help him catch up on his sleep in whatever way you possibly can, but follow a general EASY using his cues as guidelines - once you are sure he isn't too tired, then start trying to follow a more structured 'timetable' in your routine.

I totally understand you dreading another nightime - for a couple of months we went through a phase where DD was up for 1.5 - 2.5 hours at night every single night - we couldn't figure out why. I was back at work and was like a zombie for ages. I kept praying and praying that she would sleep through.... Now, things aren't perfect, but we have sorted out night sleep to the extent that we all get just about enough (part-time co-sleeping).

Also - are you using pat/sh at nap /sleep times? If not, then I would definitely recommend trying it.

HTH

[* Paula *]

Hi,

I am so sorry to hear that you are going through such a rough time - Hugs. 

Please can you post a detailed description of what your typical day looks like.  i.e E - how much (BF / Bottle), Activity, how long, what you do, Wind down routine, Swaddle?  White Noise? How you get to sleep, independantly in cot, rock etc

Hopefully once we have looked at your routine, we will be able to give you some advice.

I do agree, that your lo sounds terribly over tired.

[rebecaq]

Hi there,

First I'd like to send you some big big {{{HUGS}}} 

It sounds like both you and your lo are seriously overtired. How is he eating? If you think he can handle the radical change from 3 to 3.5 hour EASY then by all means do it.  In all honesty I see this as more of a sleep problem than routine problem.  I'm going to give the Sleep Mods the heads up to see how they can help you.

I also would like to see how your day goes so we can help any tweaking your routine may need.

 

- Beca

[JennŠ]

Great big hugs while we wait for a routine!!!!!!!!!   

[Zoey]

MORE HUGS!

[xfionax]

I put DD onto 4 hour easy at 13 weeks and it worked really well. It didn't take long for her to get into the routine at all and it made life a lot easier for me too.

You've had such a hard time and I really feel for you.  I think a fresh start on a new routine will do you good.

I know it's really hard at times but once you've decided to go for it, really commit. I would wake LO up at 7am to start the day (even if LO woke up all night and only went to back to sleep at 6:30am and you are exhausted ) It's hard to find the balance between getting the "sleepy window" and extending awake time for the new routine but try as best you can to keep him awake until at least 8:30am. It should give you a good start on the new routine and will make sure that he is ready for his nap.

I used to swaddle DD for every sleep up to 5 months and I even do it now when she is over-tired and jerky. It really does help. I thought she didn't like being swaddled at first but she got to really rely on it. I think it also helped her to nap longer than 40mins if it was nice and tight!

I also used to do wake-to-sleep to get her to nap longer. I would go into her room 30 mins after her nap started and move her a little. This really worked to get the new routine going. If she ever woke up after 40 mins, I crept in and lay on the bed next to her cot and put my hand on her chest, without making eye contact. I would stay there until she settled and I was sure she was in a deep sleep (sometimes for 40 mins).

I know you must be so frustrated right now and just want to get settled and I really hope you do. It's so hard to get your LO into a good routine when you have hardly slept yourself.

{{{{{{{BIG HUGS}}}}}}}}
Fiona xxx

[mac_clarey]

Hi everyone, thanks ever so much for your replies. It really helps to know there are other people out there who are going through/have been through the same thing. We had an average night last night. DS woke about 5 times with one of those times awake for about an hour.

Its kinda hard to give you an example of an average day for us since things have been so erratic the last few weeks but here goes:

anytime between 6.30-7.30 - DS awake, feed (6oz formula at every feed)
Change and play on mat/gym or some other activity till around 8.15 then try to put down for nap as he is usually very sleepy.
Most likely will lie in crib and not sleep! Sometimes will sleep but only for half an hour at the very most.
10am feed, top and tail and get clothes on. Play some more.
Around 11.30ish put in crib or pram for nap. Again, not likely to sleep and if so very short. If in pram and I am out with him, he will mostly sleep while the pram is moving but as soon as we get home and the pram stops moving he will wake.
1pm feed, change nappy and play till about 2.30 then another attempt at a sleep. Same scenario re not sleeping!
4pm feed, change nappy and attempt cat nap. 6pm feed and start to wind down. 7pm bath, pj's on, lullaby cd on and into crib awake.

Usually he doesn't take long to fall asleep at night (no wonder - he is shattered!!) and won't fuss too much. Previously he slept through till about 4am but now he can wake from around 9.30pm onwards. Like I said in the original post, the only thing that will settle him is being cuddled and brought into our bed, although now this isn't even working.

I would say he is a touchy baby.We have to swaddle him at all times. We used a paci from a few days old until 11 weeks - he started the old "spitting out replacing every 10 mins through the night" routine! We tried him back on it last week out of desperation but thankfully he wasn't interested in it.

This morning he was wide awake around 6.30 and I put on his light show and talked to him in bed and he lasted till just before 7am before he started getting cranky. I fed him and he drained the bottle (he only took a couple of oz at last nights df). He was very tired and I tried to put him down for a nap about 7.20 (although I know this should be A time) but he wasn't having it. He lay awake till 8.30 and I got him out. He has been on his mat since then (half hour) but is now getting very cranky and is very sleepy. I am about to try him down again.

I think he will handle 4 hours between feeds but not the length of awake time.

I feel pretty bad whining about ds like he is a nuisance or something. He isn't - he is wonderful and adoreable and the best thing ever to happen to me.

I hope this explains enough of our present situation for any suggestions!! Thanks so much again.

Clare xx

[mac_clarey]

Hi again, I have just reread the replies and noticed some questions in them - I was so overwhelmed with the replies I mustve missed them first time around!!

We try to always put ds in his crib awake. We have to swaddle at all times but he nearly always manages to get one arm out! We don't have any white noise music, at night he has a lullaby cd on quietly in the background. I try to s/p but must admit give up sometimes when he is so upset and once he does calm down I keep hold of him longer than I should. Shushing definitely helps though. He has just moved from his moses basket to a crib which rocks but generally I try not to rock him.I whisper gently to him that he is ok, just going to sleep etc.

Incidentally, ds went down no bother at 9am today and slept till 9.45 which is a record these days. He lay for 10 mins before getting upset.he fell asleep after 20 mins of s/p and slept another 20 mins after that.I'm away to feed him now so thats 3 hrs 45 mins since the start of his last feed.I think  he would wait longer as he is starting to fall asleep on my shoulder. Thanks again, Clare x

[*Mona*]

hi Clare,
great that it's been a bit better for you 

as of changing routine- we did go cold turkey from 3 to 4 hrs EASY at around 13 weeks. dd couldn't handle 2 hrs A time then yet, so usually our routine was E-A-S-A-E. she was breast fed and bottle fed. we also quit swaddling cold turkey but she was rather angel/textbook and didn't need it so much. but as your LO is touchy I'd definitely stick to it but maybe you could try swaddling with one arm out now as he's getting it out anyway?
and as he's touchy, maybe both shush and pat is too much distraction for him? maybe you could try shushing only?

and I'm sure your DS is a lovely and wonderful baby! don't feel bad about whining about him- we all do that from time to time! 

[rebecaq]

Hi Clare 

I'm so glad to hear he napped a little longer for you today    I agree that since he is a touchy baby that you should stick with the swaddling.  My ds is spirited, and I ahve noticed that the similarity between touchy and spirited is that change is NOT welcome. For the longest time naps were awful here because the transition away from A time was just torture for him. So I had to make quite the theatrics to make it clear for him that naptime was coming. Our winddown for every nap took between 30 - 45 mins. That included slowly making A time more and more low key, the diaper change before his nap, pulling down the blinds was a 5 minute show!! ( Look at mommy!! She's pulling the blinds and making it dark), and most importantly the modification of shh/pat. He also got wound up with the patting, so I would sit by the crib and keep my hand on his back at all times and would just shhhhh shhhhh shhhhhhh until I was blue in the face! I think he needed all that to be sure that it was naptime, know what I mean?

If you think he can handle going cold turkey to 4 hour feeds then go for it! E-A-S-A-E works well also.

Just remember to set a routine and commit to it, that's the hardest part of it all, especially with the level of exhaustion you have. So if you commit to putting him in his crib then don't take him into your bed, it will just confuse him and take you back to square one.  And beleive it or not, those extra 15 mins he slept are a huge step forward! Lots of mommies tend to wish for an instant fix, and there aren't any unfortunately    So celebrate every small step you take forward and your routine will be better before too long.

Please do let us know how you keep doing. Anything you need to know or just vent about we are here for.

P.S. I once told my husband that we could sell the baby on the black market and finally get some sleep! Though I tend to make jokes out of icky situation, it goes to show we all get exasparated and need a break. We're only human and it's completely normal. I could not imagine my life without Santiago and have a hard time remembering what was so great about it before he was born.    So don;t feel bad, you're just one tired mommy who desperately needs a foot rub (cue for your hubby to come in).

- Beca 

[jomige]

Hi Clare,
My baby is also 13 weeks.  She was doing great on a 3 hour EASY then started to take very short naps, wake more at night.  So I was going to do the slow transition to the 3.5 hour EASY outlined in BWSAYP.  Well, she decided to go right for 4 hours, the first day (we started on Saturday, so we are still new at it).  So going cold turkey is working for her.  We still struggle with the first nap--she would like that to be around 1 hour but I keep her in her crib and try shh/pat.  If that doesn't work she gets up and we do quiet A time with little stimulation until S.  Each day is getting better though...and we had an immediate improvement at night!

I hope this helps.  Keep up the good work!

Jodi

[Wei]

Clare,

{{{{{{{{{{{{ HUGS }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

I have a 13 week old and only a week and half ago I increased his A time to 1.5 hrs but already she is showing signs she should be staying awake longer so this increase in A time keeps changing on me just when DD (especially me) gets used to it!!  It seems like everytime there is a problem, it's almost always due to A time for me.  I'm trying to get her to recuperate today and maybe tomorrow as well since we just had a crazy day yesterday with Thanksgiving holiday.  She's really overtired from yesterday (I think she stayed awake for over 4 hrs at our friend's place) plus, I think she is starting to teeth... We will start transitioning to 3.5 hr EASY soon as she's not overtired anymore so I'm right there with ya!!

However, I think you also need to take even a day or two of timeout for yourself before starting to move your LO to a 3.5/4 HR EASY.  It sounds like you can use it just to get some relaxation!!  Maybe friends and dh can take over just one day?!

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ MORE HUGS }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Wei