Almost 6 weeks old - major issues falling and staying asleep (long)

[Sungrl]

For the first month of DD’s life she was an excellent sleeper; she fell asleep anywhere and slept through everything, took long naps and she had very little trouble falling asleep.  The past few weeks have she has had progressively more trouble falling and staying asleep...particularly at bedtime.

I had been thinking that DD was overtired by the time I was putting her to bed for the night because her body language seems to indicate overtiredness, but tonight she literally went from sleeping to her last feed and then I attempted to put her right back to sleep again, so I know she was not overtired!  She is on 3 hour EASY pretty much, so she's had plenty of sleep today too.

When it is time for her to go to sleep, I will swaddle her up and pat/shhh her while holding her and in the past she would fall asleep within minutes, after a bit of fussing.  Now, she tenses her entire body and cries, bringing her legs up and moving her head frantically from side to side, getting more and more worked up.  She acts as though she hates being swaddled and is trying to break free, but I have tried putting her to sleep unswaddled and her arms move around too much and she keeps hitting her face and rubbing her face and will not fall sleep.  Anyway, she gets more and more worked up and so I try different swaying and bouncing and rocking until she finally starts to drift off.  Eventually she will fall asleep this way. 

Attempting to shhh/pat her while she is laying down never ever works at night because she is frantically moving around and does not calm down.  Both her legs come up in the air and she grunts and cries and tries to get her arms free of the swaddle.  She acts as though she has pain or gas but it really appears to just be that she is tired and fighting sleep… she has done this to varying degrees since birth, it is just much worse now.  If I do not pick her up she will just get more and more worked up and eventually be screaming.  Once I do pick her up she often falls asleep immediately, but sometimes I have to start the whole thing over again with the bouncing and swaying, etc. 

Then, after about 5-10 minutes she will suddenly jolt awake; jerk her body, her eyes open wide and she is wide awake again and agitated all over again.  She then starts the whole frantic moving and fussing and head rolling all over again, and I have to pick her up and put her back to sleep.  Sometimes she falls asleep as soon as I pick her up, other times I have to start all over again with settling her!  The past 3-4 nights this has gone on for one hour or more before she finally falls asleep for the night.  Once she does, she basically sleeps through the night, so she is a great sleeper once she can get to that.

I've noticed the last few days that this also is happening during the day with her naps.  She is much easier to get down for naps - normally a few minutes of holding while shhh/patting or even sometimes doing that while she's in the crib works fine...however she seems to be waking after 10-45 minutes with these "jolts" and need to be resettled again.  Sometimes I will think she has had enough sleep and try to just let her get up and have her A time, but often she is cranky and sleepy and wants to go back to sleep.  Today I ended up holding her during a nap because she just kept waking up this way.  She was so overtired and I could pat her as soon as she woke and she'd be right back to sleep so at least she was able to get a decent sleep.  I do not want to make any of this a habit though...

DD is very, very active when she is awake - her arms and legs are in constant motion.  When she gets sleepy, her limps move more and more and if she becomes overtired she bicycles her legs rapidly and her arms flail around like crazy.  She's usually a pretty happy baby, and I try to put her down for sleeps at the first sign of tiredness (yawning, etc) and she does ok. 

So, my issue is that I do not want it to take an hour or more to get my baby to sleep at night anymore and I want her to have restful naps during the day!  It is very frustrating for me and as a result I never get to bed myself at a decent time.  I also don't know how anyone would ever be able to baby-sit DD if they have to sit and do this for an hour or more just to get her to bed!!!  I am at a loss as to what to do... and I don't know if any of this is normal.  My mother says it isn't normal for a baby to be so active...

Shannon

[Mariek]

Shannon - you could be talking about Ewan!!

He was like this - like we was fighting sleep every step of the way down. Pat/Shhhh was what got us through this. I know you've said she squirms and stuff when you try to do it when she's lying down but its worth persisting with it. One thing that I noticed (and Tracy mentions it in the books) is that when you're doing pat/sshhh and they're crying they tend to go through a number of bouts of crying where they'll start, reach a cresendo and then stop for a little while and then start again). Ewan has about 5 rounds of crys and then he'll settle properly. If you can pat/shhhh her through that for a couple of days then it will probably help her get back to self settling.

When we first started with Pat/shhh it was taking me 30-40 mins to put Ewan down (with a lot of crying) now he goes down awake with only a couple of mins of pat/shhhh if he's overtired.

With regards the 45 minute wakings - Are you leaving her for a little bit before you go in? - I realised with Ewan that I was rushing in too early and if I left him for a minute or two he would grumble and cry a little bit and then go back off himself).

How long after her feed are you putting her down to nap/sleep btw?  It could also be that you're missing her window (or are too early for her and she's not quite tired yet).

love

[Sungrl]

Maire, thanks so much for the response.  I'm happy to hear that this is not abnormal.  I always worry with Zoey because she is still on medication for the seizures she had after birth and I do not know how or if it has some affect on her.

One thing that I noticed (and Tracy mentions it in the books) is that when you're doing pat/sshhh and they're crying they tend to go through a number of bouts of crying where they'll start, reach a crescendo and then stop for a little while and then start again).

I guess part of my problem is that I just hate for Zoey to cry.  I know they say it is a stress relief and that it is their way to communicate, but when she cries for any length of time I feel like crying myself!  I feel like I am doing harm to her and even thinking about it makes me upset.  I know I need to get over this, and I DO let her cry for a few minutes at a time, but anything beyond that I cannot take. Often when she is fighting sleep she will cry even as I am holding her but at least I feel like I am doing all I can to comfort her.   

With regards the 45 minute wakings - Are you leaving her for a little bit before you go in?

The 45 minute wakings only happen during the day.  Since she is on basically a 3 hour EASY, I will often think she's just had enough of a nap and it's time to get up, but normally she will be crying and cranky and moving her limbs a LOT...so I know she's not had enough sleep.  If I leave her she does not settle or fall back to sleep; she gets more and more worked up until I put her back to sleep.

At night the wakings occur within 5 or 10 minutes.  Zoey still sleeps in our room (despite my husband's protests) at night, and I am always there when it happens (reading or trying to go to sleep myself), but I do try to not respond right away and see if she will settle.  Only once has she ever settled.  I may be that she knows I am right there??  I am thinking I should maybe go downstairs when I put her to bed instead of staying in the room...I do plan to move her to her crib next week.

How long after her feed are you putting her down to nap/sleep btw?  It could also be that you're missing her window (or are too early for her and she's not quite tired yet).

During the day we try to follow a 3 hour EASY.  Basically, she will eat (only takes 10 minutes for her) then we will play, dress, etc... and then at the first sign of sleepiness (yawn, rubbing eyes, fussing) I try putting her in her crib.  Every now and then she will fall asleep just laying there, other times the shhh/pat works, other times I pick her up.

Bedtime is a lot trickier because she has to take medication between 9 and 10pm (it's supposed to be at the same time each day, and that is the time), which I give to her in a bottle of EBM.  She always has a feed around 7:30 or 8pm and then her bottle at 9:30pm and then I try to get her to sleep by around 10 or 10:30pm.  In the past, she would be awake from 7:30 or so on, but I thought she was overtired by the time I had given her the bottle and tried getting her to sleep, but last night she had fallen asleep at 8:30pm (we had been out all day and she was out of sorts).  I thought I may have to wake her to give her the bottle, but she woke on her own right at 9:30...very fussy.  As I fed her, she fell asleep, so I thought I could just lay her down and she would be done for the night, but as soon as I laid her down, she woke up and was very fussy.  Then, it took until 10:40 for her to finally fall asleep for good with the situation as I described it earlier.   Thoughts???

Shannon

[Missy Lou]

my LO is 8 months and I still hate to hear her cry.  I remember when she was only a month old and i would start to feel sick if she cried for more than a few minutes.  A lot of times I still can't hear anything else when Addison cries.  So you're not weird at all.  zoey is so tiny and it's perfectly normal to not want to hear her cry.

If your husband doesn't want zoey in the room but you want to be with her at night, could you put a couch or cot in her room?  I understand wanting to be close to her at night.  I didn't find BW until Addison was a few months old and we co-slept.  I think the book is great but just know that sometimes when LO is so young, it's very hard for them to settle themselves.  I think at that age, you are trying your best to avoid AP but don't get discouraged if you have to intervene a lot to help zoey sleep.  zoey is doing great.  don't get stressed about whether she settles herself.  right now you are just beginning to teach her but she'll need your help for a little longer.

the 45 minute naps are a common problem.  they're a pain.  having a good routine helps out a lot with that.  did i miss it - what is zoey's A time?

when it takes her a while to fall asleep at night - she's up that whole time?
Melissa

[binxyboo]

Shannon, I will pm you. Great new avatar by the way!

[Sungrl]

Melissa - Zoey's A time is normally 45 minutes to one hour.  I will lay her on her back and interact with her, sing, etc... or put her in her Papasan chair, stuff like that.  As soon as she starts yawning or getting fussy I put her for nap.

when it takes her a while to fall asleep at night - she's up that whole time?

It normally takes her a while to fall asleep, but the main problem is more that when she finally does fall asleep, I lay her down and within 5-10 minutes she will jolt awake again and be totally alert.  I cannot leave her to fall back to sleep, she never does, so I end up starting all over with trying to get her down, and that goes on and one, for sometimes over an hour or more.

don't get discouraged if you have to intervene a lot to help zoey sleep.  zoey is doing great.  don't get stressed about whether she settles herself.  right now you are just beginning to teach her but she'll need your help for a little longer.

Thank you Melissa, I really needed to hear that tonight. 

I'm actually sitting here having a bit of cry!! I took Zoey out to the mall today, she had slept for 12 hours with 2 wakings to eat and she woke before we left at 10:45am.  I fed and dressed her and she was in good spirits.  We walked around the mall for a while until she fell asleep and then my girlfriend and I went for lunch.  She slept through most of lunch and woke wanting to eat again, so I fed her.  She was ok for a bit after that but when I put her in the carseat to leave she started to cry.  Thankfully the mall is only 5 minutes from home! 

When we got home she seemed tired and cranky so I put her down for a sleep.  I did the shhh/pat and it worked great!  She slept for only about 45 minutes though and was up again so we did all the EASY stuff and once she started fussing I put her down for another nap.  She only slept for around 30 minutes and woke again.  I tried getting her back to sleep because she was unhappy, but she would not settle with the shh/pat, nor with me rocking her.  She was getting more and more upset so I fed her even though it had only been just over 2 hours since her last feed.  Then, she seemed really happy and was smiling and cooing for a bit. 

She laid awake doing this while I talked to my mother on the phone (who told me I was doing this and that wrong, I should force her to take a soother, ect) and then she started fussing again.  I held her and sang to her for a bit and she was happy, so I decided I would give her a bath.  I normally bathe her in the mornings, and usually only twice a week...but I always read a bath is a good way to calm and wind down so I thought this would be a good nighttime routine (it was now 7:45pm).  Well.... I put little Zoey's feet into the water just like I always do and she immediately started SCREAMING!  She screamed as though the water was burning her or something, even though I triple checked it and it was only luke-warm!!  I even took her out and added more cold and tried again but she just SCREAMED and looked up at me like I was torturing her!!  It was awful!!!  When she was really young she always cried in the bath, but never ever like this... and the last few times she had a bath she actually seemed to enjoy it.  But tonight she screamed as though I was hurting her...she even had real tears!!!

I washed her as fast as possible and wrapped her up and eventually she calmed down (she even took the soother which is rare)....but by then I was crying myself.  I massaged her for a short time and put her in her PJs and held her and she fell asleep right away so I put her in her crib.  DH is out so I have no one to talk to about this...but the whole thing just upset me so much!!!  I assume since she fell asleep and had such short naps today that she was just overtired, but for some reason I just feel like a horrible mother right now.  Everyone says that babies get easier after the first 6 weeks but Zoey didn't cry for the first month of her life!!  Now I feel like she cries a lot more, sleeps a lot less in the day and so is harder to take out, and she was happier before.  One thing I do know is that this week I have been really worrying about her settling and soothing herself... maybe I shouldn't be worrying so much about it and just do as we were doing before...

Shannon

[Mariek]

Shannon - Do not feel like a horrible mother!! You're doing a great job hun. Some days they're just cranky (exactly like us, they sometimes get out of the crib on the wrong side). Grace would have days where she was inexplicably whiney all day long and then the next day would be perfectly fine again.

If trying to get her to settle herself is stressing you out too much then I'd just let it lie a while and do what you're comfortable with. A happy mummy is much more use to Zoey at the moment than a stressed out one.

{{{{HUGSSS}}}}}}

love

[Missy Lou]

shannon - when addison cries, i cry too.  i hate to see her sad (recently she's spends more time yelling at me so she's not sad, in pain, etc. but angry).   addison cried a lot until about 9 weeks.  she got overtired easily and overstimulated easily.  i had to really control her environment.  i didnt take her out much and kept things quiet in the house.  i probably overdid things but she was really sensitive to her environment.  zoey may be sensitive also.  i'm not saying to be a hermit like i was but only to not take it to heart when zoey gets upset.  as she gets older, she'll probably be less sensitive (addison can fall asleep in public now and doesn't get freaked when there's a lot going on).

addison will cry at bathtime or when we're getting ready for bed still.  it's pretty much because she's tired.  if zoey is freaking out, i would bet she's overtired.  7:45 sounds a little late for bathtime.  a lot of times, i skip massage or lotion and just dry her off and put on her nighttime diaper and pjs.  don't feel you have to do the whole production if she's too tired.

what's her routine?
melissa

ps - please feel free to PM me or e-mail me.  i know it's hard.  i know it breaks your heart when she's so upset.  it's a really helpless feeling when you can't make her feel better.  there's so  many times i don't know what's wrong so i can't help her.  i've come to accept that and just love her and try my best.  one day, they'll be able to tell us what's wrong.  until then, just keep cuddling her and kissing on her. 

[Sungrl]

Shannon - Do not feel like a horrible mother!! You're doing a great job hun.

Marie, thanks so much.  Sometimes I really need to hear that!  Most days are great...but some days I just feel like I'm not doing the very best I can and I get hung up on that.  I think for now I need to focus on Zoey staying asleep before I worry too much about her self soothing.

One question though... I know a few weeks ago Ewan was going down for the night around 10 or 11pm.  How did you move his bedtime to 8pm???

melissa
I don't think Zoey is too sensitive, maybe a bit but she does fall sleep in the mall, at a party, etc.  I am not sure if they can become more sensitive as they age but Zoey so far seems pretty portable.  She does seem to get overtired though.  I will PM you her routine...

Shannon

[Duckie]

Just to reassure you....I seem to recall Jacob's crying peaked around 6 weeks and got better after that.

[Missy Lou]

shannon - i hope i didn't offend you.  i don't think she's "too" sensitive - just sensitive to her surroundings was what i meant.  like addison reacts to her surroundings a lot so i had to control her environment. 

that's wonderful zoey's portable. 

please pm me anytime.
melissa

[Mariek]

One question though... I know a few weeks ago Ewan was going down for the night around 10 or 11pm.  How did you move his bedtime to 8pm???

He has a dream feed at 11pm but goes to bed at 8pm. The only difference now to a few weeks ago is that I started putting him in his crib at 8pm rather than leaving him in the living room. Generally he has the following schedule:

Eats at 7am, 10am, 1pm, 4pm, 7pm and a DF at 11pm and then wakes about 4/5am for feed
(I've just put a cluster feed back in today so I fed him at 4pm, 6pm and 8pm then will DF at 11 as usual and I'm hoping he'll go to 6/7am......time will tell on that one, I'll tell you how it goes in the morning )

Sleeps 8.30-10, 11.30-1, 5.30-7 then down for the night at 8pm
(with the cluster feed he goes down at 5.15 for 45 mins then feeds then goes down again for 45 mins)

Do you do a dream feed for Zoey?

I know it's difficult because you've got to give her the 9pm bottle with her meds in.  You could try going for feeds at 7am, 10am, 1pm, 4pm, 7pm (put her down for a catnap), 9pm (then put her to bed) then DF at 11pm.

I hope this makes sense!! Lots of numbers in there!

love

[Sungrl]

melissa - you did not offend me at all!  I do know exactly what you mean about sensitive babies, I have friends/family with them... and I just wouldn't classify Zoey as one of those types.  That's all I meant.

Marie - I tried the dreamfeed the other night because Zoey was asleep and did not wake up as she normally does at 9:30pm.  I took her out of her crib and she did not wake up, and it took about 10 minutes but I finally got her to take the bottle (EBM with meds in it) and she ate the whole thing without waking.  I then laid her back in her bed and about 5 minutes later I noticed her legs kicking and arms starting to move...and another 5 minutes later she was awake!!  It was like the milk gave her a jolt of energy!  It then took me 45 minutes to get her back to sleep.    If she would stay asleep around that time then I would try the dreamfeed again.   Good luck with little Ewan tonight.

Yesterday was crazy... Zoey napped from 8:30am until 11:30am and then the next nap was only 15 minutes!  She was wide awake and perfectly happy after 15 minutes and would not go back to sleep.  She laid in her moses basket happy as can be...cooing and smiling for 45 minutes or so!  By that time it was time to feed her again so after a short activity she went back to sleep but this time only for 30-45 minutes.  By evening she would not sleep at all and finally fell asleep having her bottle at 9pm.  I thought that she would be done for the night but by 10pm she was awake and it took almost an hour of putting her to sleep and her waking back up after 10 minutes before she finally went to sleep for the night!!!  I assume she was overtired by then since she really only got about 14 hours of sleep within that 24 hour period.

Today has been much better...Zoey woke up at 6:30 this morning to eat.  By 7am she was tired and it was a bit of a struggle to get her back to sleep (I think because we had my 3 year old step daughter here overnight and she was in our bed watching movies, etc), but she finally went around 7:15 and slept until 9:45am.  Then, by 11:30 she was showing signs of being tired so I swaddled her and rocked her and put her in her crib asleep.  15 minutes later she woke up!  So, I tried putting her back but she kept waking up every 5 minutes or so.  Since my step daughters were both here last night (my teenage SD with her friend to boot) I didn't get much sleep and was tired, so I decided just to hold Zoey and lay down in my bed with her.  She kept doing the "jolting" thing she does but I held her close to me and it didn't wake her.  She slept for another hour.

At 3pm it was time for another nap (she was fussy )and I decided to try leaving her unswaddled and to just put her in her crib wide awake with her mobile.  She laid there happy as can be for 15 min until the mobile stopped and started to cry out.  I went back in and gave her a soother and she took that and I turned the mobile back on.  In a few minutes she was asleep (I have a video monitor in there).   She did wake up about 15 minutes later but I left her and she managed to fall back to sleep on her own, bless her!!!  She slept for about an hour in total...maybe a bit less. 

It is 5pm here and she's in her swing happy as can be.  I am aiming for 9pm bedtime tonight (I hope I hope) and I will try a dreamfeed.  I'm hoping since she has had some decent naps today that this may all work out...we shall see.  She is such an angel and these issues with her naps have only come up in the last week or so.  Hopefully we'll get it all sorted out.

Shannon

[sue]

Hi Shannon.  I was just thinking as I read your posts that around that age, it is very common for babies to suddenly start experiencing pretty nasty gas pains.  Both Noah and Evie went through it right at 4 weeks and it lasted until about 7 weeks.  Also in that time period, they usually experience a growth spurt.  Both of these changes can throw off what seems to be a relatively smooth routine for a mom who is just starting to think she's getting the hang of things.  I know I was stressed!  But the good thing about this age is that babies change so much, so quickly so even if you just ride it out, she will probably have these things worked out in a week or two.  Even by telling yourself that, you might be able to relax a bit, making it more bearable for both of you.  {{{HUGS}}}

[Sungrl]

Well, it looks like my little Zoey has decided to work out her sleep issues on her own!!!

I don't want to jinx things...but suddenly the last few nights Zoey is ready for bed at 9pm, and it only takes a few minutes to get her to sleep!!!!  I've also managed to have her fall asleep on her own during some of her naps, just by laying her in her crib swaddled and tired and turning on her mobile.  I've also just watched her wake at that 45 minute mark (I have a video monitor) and settle herself back to sleep!!!

She didn't nap as much/long today... only 45 minutes for 2 of them... but she did really well all day and went down with very little fuss at 9pm sharp so I cannot complain!

Thanks so much for all your help ladies!
Shannon