Does this strike you as odd?

[Wei]

Hi ladies,

My angel, textbook DD is going to be 17 weeks in a couple days and her schedule (3.5 HR EASY) is like this:

Awake: 7:30-8am (if earlier, I just let her lie in crib till close enough to feed time)
E     8-8:10
A, S 9:45 or so

E     11:30-11:40
A, S 1:20

E      3-3:10
A, S  4:30 or 4:45...depends on tired cues
--- this last nap is sometimes messy, wakes up after 45 min crying; or she doesn't nap past 6pm

E      6:30-6:40
A
Swing time (tries to get her to catnap but she has been refusing this since last week)
Bath time 7:40
E     between 8-8:30pm
S     by 8:30 ish

Dreamfeed 10:30pm

Since last week, she has been lasting anywhere from 6pm to about 8:30pm without a catnap.  Night waking started up again after having said goodbye to them for a couple weeks.     I would try and try to get her to nap but no luck...not even in her swing.  She seems to be happy at bathtime still without it but I have to hurry the getting dressed for bed part b/c she will start to get REALLY cranky.  I decided to give 4 HR EASY a try for a couple days thinking she was able to stay up to 2.5 hrs afer her last feed so she must need to be awake more during the day.  That did not work so great so I am sticking to 3.5 HR EASY for now....

Am I going about this right?  It just seems weird that she can last for so long in the evening and thta her night wakings are back.

Thanks,
Wei

[rebecaq]

Hi Wei,

Hmmmm, how is she eating? She maybe hitting her 5 month growspurt early.

Just so you know, Santiago NEVER did the catnap, it was just impossible to get him to do it. When I did get him asleep he'd sleep until the next early morning (4am). So I found myself like you,  rushing to put his ojs on before he had a meltdown.

How many times is she waking at night? Has she hit an milestones lately? How long did you try 4 hour EASY? Did you change her gradually to it?

Hee hee hee, no more questions for now 

- Beca

[Wei]

Hi Becca,

She's eating okay, in fact she leaves a little left in there after each feed so no growth spurt!  As for night wakings, she will wake up around 2-2:30am.  There was a couple days where she woke at 1am and then again at 5am but both times she went back to sleep.  It's weird but she didn't wake up last night.  Wait a sec... that's not weird, that's great!! 

I tried the 4 Hr EASY for a couple days but found that the afternoons were a disaster.  I did try to gradually ease into it but I find that b/c she only sleeps 1.5 hrs and not 2, I am left with an extra half hour between feeds and she is so used to waking then eating that she gets super cranky if I don't feed her right then!  Impatience I tell ya!!

As for milestones, I'm not sure to be honest.  She doesn't seem to be doing anything new.... athough recently she has learned to "sing".  It's so cute I can't help but laugh.  When mommy sings at church or at home, she gets this little serious look on her face and she starts to sing to...when mommy stops, she stops.  Does that count as a milestone?  lol!!

[rebecaq]

She didn't wake last night, that's great!! Let's see how tonight goes, maybe it was a feew days thing

- Beca

[Wei]

Okay, something rather odd just happened today.  For her second nap, which sometimes doesn't go too well... I decided what the heck, let's try no swaddle and just the sleep sac. (I have been doing 1 arm swaddle for 2 weeks and she loved it).  It seemed to work really well.

So for the 3rd nap, she yawned and was fussy around 1 hr 20 min of awake time so I started to get her ready for nap #3.  But she started crying really mad so I decided I was gonna swaddle her this time.  Well, she was okay at first in her crib and stared at her mobile but after 15 min she got extremely mad.  I thought, maybe she wasn't tired after all and wanted to stay up longer.  So, I unswaddled both arms this time and she instantly sucked her right thumb and seems to be going to sleep now.  I guess she has a favorite thumb!!  so I'm anxiously waiting to see if she will make it past 45 min this time... she hasn't done so in the last few days during this nap.

Maybe what she wanted was to be unswaddled?  I hope that's it!!!!!!   

More to follow... we'll see what tonight is like!  I'm leaving her with dh for a couple hours while I go away to a friend's baby shower.  Hopefully, she isn't too much of a handful.

Wei

[rebecaq]

Maybe that's it!!! I hope so and your problem gets sorted that easily!

~~~~~~Good night vibes for dh~~~~~~~~~

Let me know tomorrow how she did

- Beca

[Wei]

Well, last night was a little out of routine.  I ended up coming home a little later than planned so DD went to bed an 1.5 hr later slightly overtired.  She did manage to sleep through though but woke up way before her wake up time so today is kinda messy.

Gonna see what tonight brings.

Wei

[rebecaq]

Hi Wei,

I've noticed that when babies go to bed later they rise earlier. My ds is on one nap a day and if I miss his nap time by 20 mins he will only nap an hour and be cranky all day long. But if I get him down for his nap at he right time he will nap between 2.5-3 hours.  I'm pretty sure that's what happened last night. Be sure to get her to bed at her regular bedtime tonight

Let me know how it goes

- Beca

[Wei]

Hmmm... okay today is starting off really odd.

Naps i noticed have gotten shorter.  I have her unswaddled in her sleep sack and she seems to do okay with it so I guess she's ready to be unswaddled now.  However, still one night waking at night around 3am.  I did put her to bed on time though so she went down no problem and got up at a good time.

Her first nap this morning was only 45 min... usually, if the other naps are short this one tends to be 1.5 hr long and is rarely shorter than that.  So, I'm not sure what's wrong now.  She gave me sleepy signs at about an hour 40 min awake so I started wind down and she went down without crying.  She just seems to have problems transitioning.  I tried to help her at 45 min mark but she just seemed to get more and more frustrated and cried way worse than when she originally started to cry.  Dh switched up with me and is still patting her... it's been about 20 min of patting now.  That's odd too because normally I don't have to do any patting.  Maybe she needs more awake time after all?

Wei

Wei

[Wei]

Okay, in answer to my own question... yes, maybe more awake time will be good for her.  With just a 45 min nap she managed to handle almost 2 hours...but dh didn't watch her sleepy signs so by the time I got her to go down to sleep she was overtired.

I think we will just run with the flow today since she is so tired and will start 4 HR EASY transition from 3.5 HR EASY tomorrow since it will be a new day!  I have a feeling after a week of being on it she might be alright.... err... I hope!! 

Hopefully she'll do okay on it.  In a couple weeks I have my friend's 6 mos old whom I will be watching during the daytime for 2 weeks so I'd like to start making the 4 Hr transition now before i have 2 babies on hand!  I'm anxious and excited at the same time.  Anxious about how i'll manage both a 4 month and 6 month old all at once but excited because it could possibly be a thrilling time too!

Wei

[sue]

Hi Wei.  I was wondering how things were going since we chatted a bit when the site was down.  This baby thing is a tricky business isn't it?  Sounds to me like you're doing a great job figuring things out, watching the cues and going with the flow.  Good luck adding a 6 mos old to the equation!

[Wei]

Hi Sue!

Thanks for checking in on me and your vote of confidence! but to be honest, i sure feel like a novice and I have a feeling I always will...it's part of motherhood I guess.  Just when I thought that DD needed to start going onto 4 HR EASY it seems everything has gone out of whack!

These last few days she has been really moody and out of sorts.  Yesterday was not too bad, she was pretty content up until the afternoon in her last nap... she was mad and I couldn't calm her down during the middle of her nap so I had to get her up.  The day before that was worse, I don't think I have heard her cry that much since her first month of life!!  There wasn't anything I could do to calm her down shh-pat did not work... jiggling, swing, rocking... no luck!  I had to finally nurse her to calm her down and she just conked out not long after.

Today I was going to try to transition from 3.5 HR - 4 HR EASY again but it seems not to be going so great.  She was crying about an hour 20 min of awake time and just too cranky so I put her to bed.  I'm wonderign what is up with her... guess we'll have to hold off the transition.  I'm hoping she will naturally do it when ready instead of me helping her.  She can't seem to cope very well with it so far and is not herself... not too sure what is wrong!?! 

I begain to wonder if she was teething again b/c she has been quite restless at nights too.  Fortunately, we have her 4 month shots tomorrow so perhaps I can have the doc take a look and see if that's what it is.

Ack.... clueless as heck here!  Will ride on though!

Wei

[sue]

Lately things are pretty out of whack here too.   I thought things were going so well, but now I can't get her to extend her naps anymore and she is stuck in this 2.5 hour EASY!  All day she has been fighting sleep and screaming for each nap and then when she finally does fall asleep, she's awake again in 20 mins.  I've just now given her some Tempra just in case it's teething pain (Noah suggested that- You know it's bad when you're taking advice from a 4 year old! ).  So I guess I can't help you out much besides letting you know you're not alone.
It's times like these I refer to Tracy's philosophy- "This too shall pass."

[rebecaq]

Hi Wei and Sue 

Sorry it's taken me a bit to answer, I'm house sitting my IL's house and it needed alot of cleaning and gardening work 

When makng the transition to 4 hour EASY remeber to do it slowly, only by 5min increments for a few day so your baby can adjust.  Also they are cound to revert a bit but that's normal.

Wei, what did the doctor tell you? I noticed that you tried several thing to calm dd down. I don't recommend doing this because it can agitate her more.  Pick a way to soothe her and stick with it whether it be PU/PD or Shhh/Pat. Swinging, rocking and nursing during the really bad patches will just create another problem you'll have to deal with later.  Trust me, I know how hard and desperate it is at 3am and all you want to do is sleep!!!  but you laso have to consider what  you're teaching dd and if t's something you'd want long term.  Those are my 2 cents anyhow 

How has today gone?

- Beca

[Wei]

Hi Becca,

No worries...I hope you had a good time with your IL's!!

Well, the doctor didn't tell me much actually but LO seems to be back to her happy self.  I normally just do pat-shh... but she was not tolerating any of that during that day.  I just couldn't get her to calm down at all (I think it must been 40 min of shh-pat already) so I tried to do whatever I could to calm her down.  She had gotten so worked up by then (over an hour later) that the only thing that got her to quiet down was nursing her.  Even then she was grumpy but not crying anymore.  I'm thinking discomfort but can't figure out what it was.

Today she is okay, happy at least!  I just have a hard time doing the watchclock thing of adding 5 minutes whenever we increase awake times.  It seems mostly b/c her wake ups in the morning are now all over the place it's hard for me to guess when she actually woke up b/c I'm never sure anymore if she actually went back to sleep or just lay there awake waiting (I'm guessing she varies now anywhere from 1.45 min to 2+ hours of awake time if she wakes early these days).  So, I keep with the sleepy cues.  Mind you, she's not quiet anymore these days when she wakes up and is quite fussy.   I usually let her be but if she starts getting upset then I have to go in to intervene.  Sometimes that will be shh-pat, and if that doesn't work then 1/2 tsp of water just to quiet her a bit.

I have noticed though that in the evening after her last nap she can stay awake for 2.5 hours or more but she will be grouchy any longer.  So, I am thinking too much sleep earlier on in the day.  If this keeps up for the next couple days, seeing it's been more than a week of this, I think I might have to put on my tough mommy cap and just go cold turkey 2 hours awake time on her just so that eventually her wake up time will be a bit more consistent.  I noticed when we went shopping the other day she was fine for 2.5 hrs and no complaints, so I think once her wake up time is more consistent, she might be okay with 4 HR EASY.

Hmm... I think my post was a little confusing.  Hope I didn't lose you!  I'm a bit dopey today lol!!

Thanks,
Wei

[Wei]

Oops sorry Becca, just reread the post.... didn't realize you said house-sitting the iL's house!!

I told you I was dopey today!! LOL 

I think I need a nap!! 

Wei

[rebecaq]

Hi again

If she handled 2.5 hours without an overtired baby meltdown then that's a cue she might be ready for 4 hour EASY    Usually as the day goes on their awake time seems to get tougher and tougher. With my ds I had to make each awake time more low key than the last. So ther afternoon consisted of a walk in his stroller, reading or watching a Baby Einstein together, and the evening was really just us sitting and hanging out, singing songs, him sitting in his bouncy while I made dinner...etc  You could also try to have a low key time from last nap to bedtime to see how she does 

- Beca

[Wei]

Thanks Beca.  I started 4 Hr EASY right after I read your note.  She seems happy and content.  I'd put her in the swing to relax her and keep her entertained there so she seems to be okay being kept there while extending her nap times.  I wanted to go out in the stroller but it's really bad weather outside so not today!

We'll see how this goes!

Wei

[Wei]

Ok oops... I'm still dopey it seems.  I just re-read my last post and low and behold I made a typo.  I meant to say that I put her in the swing to extend her awake times and to relax her so she wasn't fussy.

Okay, it may be premature but LO just went to bed for the night and wasn't overtired.  I went cold turkey and did 4 HR right away and other than a bit of fussiness after her catnap...she was okay!  She spent a good 10 min or 15 min talking away to her mobile and then fell asleep.

So let's hope this works!!!  I posted on another topic that LO was waking up during dreamfeeds too (no matter how much earlier or later I did it to try and stop that...she's been okay until recently) but I wasn't sure if it was b/c she was just not sleepy enough by bedtime or it was the dreamfeed itself.  So, if LO manages to do 4 HRs okay, and no night wakings...then waking up during dreamfeed is not affecting her at all.

Yay!!  I know it's really early to tell but today was the first time 4 HR EASY worked well and LO was not overtired.   

Now, I think I deserve that big bucket of ice-cream in the fridge. Yummm!

Wei

[sue]

So glad to hear things are going well for you Wei!

[Wei]

Thanks Sue.

That was just one day, today is a little bit out of whack again LOL!! 
She woke up really early and wouldn't go back to sleep so our day is starting off rather off.  I'll probably stick in a 10 min catnap for her.  However, she didn't wake up at night.

I shoulda known it was just too early to celebrate.   

Wei

[Wei]

So, I thought I might stick this in in case anybody viewing this might be in the same boat.

I just realized...FINALLY... that the reason LO isn't napping well today is not b/c she's overtired or overstimulated but b/c she's hungry.  DUH me.  I just didn't understand why she kept waking up from her naps so early and not happy... she'd suck her fingers and then spit it out and cry from frustration.  She needed food!

However, I seem to be on a low supply here so I'm gonna have to pump starting tomorrow to increase it a bit.  I use to have so much more extra milk but lately it's kinda dwindled a bit I've noticed.  I really hate pumping, it truly makes me feel like a moo-cow and is so much work it is almost tiring

Anyway, maybe this will help someone who is struggling with 4 HR EASY too.

Wei

[rebecaq]

Wei,

I'm so happy to hear that she did well and that you discovered your supply trouble. I know pumping sucks, I HATED it!! But after a few days your supply should go up. Be sure to get lots of rest and water and most importantly to eat properly! 

As for having a hectic day, remeber they take 3 steps forward and 1 step back when going through a routine change. Give her time 

- Beca

[sue]

Hey Wei!  I think you might've solved my problem too!  Today I tried feeding dd more for each feed and so far she's doing great!  She's extended her awake time AND her naptime!!  I hope I haven't jinxed it, but so far so good!
Thank you so much for posting your discovery!
(hope things are still going well for you!)

[Wei]

That's awesome Sue!!!!!!  I'm so glad it helped your DD!!!

Yeap, things are still going good on this side.  We still have some small things to iron out but that will hopefully work out soon enough.  We have a messy day today but to be expected as we went out for Remembrance day and she missed out on her nappy!

Okay...better go.  She is needing some mommy intervention!!

Wei

[Wei]

Hey Sue, just wanted to know how your DD is doing now?  Is she back on track?

My DD is doing not too bad...we are weaning from swaddle and it's going better than expected with only a few minor set-backs.  We are on 4 HR EASY but boy, it's tough when you've got 2 infants!!  I am taking care of a 6 mos old this week and next week so when they both cry for naps, it gets real interesting 

I have to admit, I had to use the swing to give DD a quick cat-nap while I put the other one to bed before I can put DD to bed.  And if DD is having problems napping, there is no time for me to help her transition so we use the swing again. I know it's bad, but what else can I do?    Hopefully, we will be back on track in a couple weeks.  surely she won't forget all about her routine so soon will she?    ACK! LOL

Wei

[sue]

Hi Wei.  We've all been sick here (ds brought home a virus from school ) but despite that, we've been doing pretty well.  I think because I've been sick, my supply was down and she was not eating enough.  I've been offering her the other breast when she is done eating at each feed and sometimes she takes it, sometimes she doesn't.  But it seems that when she is full, she sleeps better for the next nap and therefore stays awake longer for her next A time.  She still doesn't do more than about 1.5 hours of awake time, but my doctor reassured me when Evie was just a few weeks old saying, "some babies just need more sleep".  So we do sort of a rough EASY routine of 1.5 hours awake then 45 mins-1hour of sleep with the occasional 2 hour nap thrown in.  It actually works out ok for us since I get lots of one on one time with Noah while she naps.  I don't dare try to take a nap while she's sleeping though because that's just torture when she wakes up right when I've finally dozed off!  I don't really have many opportunities to try to nap anyway with Noah around.
You're lucky you can use a swing with your dd!  I was using our swing for exactly the same reasons you are and then suddenly, she decided she hated it.  Now I'm often rushing through Noah's dinner/bath/bed routine with a crying baby in my arms.  I guess the good thing is she really prefers her crib which is where she spends most of her sleep time anyway.  As for ruining their routines, I always remember Tracy saying something along the lines of multiplying the length of time it took for the habit to form by 3 to get how long it could take to correct it.  She also said, that habits don't form overnight.  So keeping those two thoughts in mind, you might want to be careful of the swing use (I think you're safe if the majority of the time she's in her crib) and remember that if you do unintentionally cause some habits you don't like, if it took a week to form them, it might take about 3 weeks to correct it.  It sounds like a long time, but at least if you are working on it, you will remain consistant and keep at it knowing an approx time frame, rather than giving up in frustration.  But honestly, I don't think you have to worry about any of that anyway with just a bit of swing use here and there.
Thanks for asking and good luck juggling two infants!