hungry and not very happy baby

[barbarann]

Hi

Wondered if anyone has any advice for me. My baby is 5 months old and we're having a bit of a tricky time, not horrendous just tricky. She has always been a very hungry girl and just seems to get hungrier, she sometimes struggles to make 3 hours and then will knock a 7/8oz bottle back in about 5-10 mins. She is on two good meals of pureed fruit/veg a day but that hasn't affected her milk intake. I wouldn't mind doing 3 hour feeds if she was happy the rest of the time but she's not. At the moment she is getting really fussy for naps sometimes as soon as 45 mins to an hour, I do try and keep her up for about an hour and a half where possible. She goes down well for these and naps well (today 2 x 1hr 45min naps) and at night (although her last nap of the day is a struggle and sometimes doesn't happen). She is also waking up early around 5 or 5.30am ish and has been since she got her two bottom teeth at about 18/19 weeks (nothing is disturbing her and she has blackout blinds - she's ravenous for a feed at this time but she always is so no surprise there! Can't settle her any other way, most of the time she will go back to sleep afterwards) . I find the early waking and grumpiness for nap hard as it means that schedules go right out the window, at the moment it feels that if she's not asleep or eating then she is whining for one of them. I started having to put her to bed a bit earlier when her teeth came through (at say 6.30ish) as she was so worn out but for the last 3 weeks I have been trying to give her a last feed at 7-7.30ish pm and then she goes straight to bed and through to 5.30amish.
She had her last lot of jabs at the beginning of last week and this has really made things worse. I guess I just want her to be happy again and to have some time with her where she's having fun and playing. Any advice on the hungriness/grumpiness/early waking would be really helpful. Thanks.

[yaya]

Hello and welcome to the boards!
How old is your DD?
Could u post ur current routine so why can take a look?
Am I right in thinking its going longer between feeds that u are trying to deal with?
THanx

[barbarann]

Hi and thanks for the welcome.

Yes I would love some help getting her to a four hour schedule and also with regard to the tiredness/grumpiness and early waking, but maybe I need to go to another board for those?

Here's a very rough idea of what happens at the moment (sometimes like today she will have 2 longer naps rather than 3):
5 - 5.30am - wakes, I try to settle but no joy so bottle
6 to 7.30ish - back to bed
7.45 - bottle
9.00 to 10.00 - sleep
10.30 - veg and bottle
11.30/12.00 to 1.00/1.30 - sleep
1.30 - bottle
3.30ish - 4.15ish sleep
4.30 - bottle
sometimes a catnap somewhere in here but it's a struggle
6.30 - bath
7.00 - bottle and bed

[barbarann]

sorry forgot to add that she's 22 weeks.

[* Paula *]

Hi Barbarann,

Hugs, sorry to hear that you are having such a rough time.

Sorry, I am going to be asking you a few questions to help us get a better idea of what is going on.

You say that your lo has just cut 2 teeth, do you think she may still be teething?  Teething could definitley contribute to the Clingy / Whiney / grumpiness.

You say your lo will take 7 or 8 oz in a bottle - is she draining these bottles?  Have you tried to offering her more a few minutes later?

What size teat are you using on your bottles?  Have you tried chaning the teats size to see if she will take any more at one feed?

Does your lo ever nap longer than an hour?  It could be that even though she has woken up happy etc, that she is still tired.  Have you tried extending her naps with pat / shhh?

Have you tried clusterfeeding?  You could offer a clusterfeed at around 6:00ish and then bath, and then offer the rest of her feed at 7:00 before bed.

Do you offer a dreamfeed at all?  This combined with the clusterfeeding could help get extra oz into your lo and help her sleep a bit longer.

Paula x

[barbarann]

Hi Paula

Thanks for your help, I really, really appreciate it. Here's the answers to your questions:

1) Teething - she could be although I can't see anything and she isn't drooling as much as when the bottom ones came through. Do babies have the same symptoms with each tooth or can it differ? (first time mum alert!)
2) Feed - Yes, she nearly always drains. I will try to offer her more tomorrow to see if it makes a difference. Sometimes when she has the 8oz bottle she is a bit sick - do you think that might be because her tummy isn't quite big enough to cope with that amount?
3) Teats - She's on size 3, worried that if I can to size 4 that she'll down the lot in a minute!! Would that be ok for her to be drinking it that quickly?
4) Nap - Yes she always has at least one nap longer than an hour, normally 1.5hrs to 2hrs. Have tried to extend the shorter ones but it's like she know she's had some sleep and won't consider having any more.
5) Cluster feed - she would probably take the majority of the feed at 6pm and then might have a few more ounces after her bath. I've always thought I should give her as much as I can just before she goes to bed but I definitely see the logic in trying to get more oz in her so will give it a try tomorrow.
6) Dreamfeed - haven't ever been able to do this with her as she's in such a deep sleep that she won't take any feed (and won't suck if I just put the teat in her mouth)

[* Paula *]

Her teeth could still be bothering her - it is not just when they are cutting through that they are sore, but also when they are moving in their gums.  No not all teeth are the same when they come through, but my DS seemed to suffer with the majority of his teeth.

When you say that your lo is a bit sick after an 8oz feed, have you tried winding her in the middle of the feed, so that she does not have so much air?  I would offer her a bit more if she is draining her bottles, just add an extra oz to each bottle.  You are aiming that she will leave about 1/2 an oz in the bottom.

You could try her on size 4 teats - but they may be a bit fast for her - If you find that she battles with it, you could always go back to size 3.  My DS was on size 4 by the time he was about 3.5 months old - he could just not get it quick enough.

I would defiintley suggest trying the clusterfeed, and also trying the dreamfeed again.  It can take up to a week to implement the dreamfeed and for it to work.

Let us know how you get on tomorrow.

Paula x

[barbarann]

Hi there

Progress so far......it's helped to wind her half way through the feed (she objects quite loudly which is why I didn't do it before but she's getting used to it already) and it's meant that she has taken a little more on some feeds so I'll carry on working on it. Unfortunately where she has managed to take 8.5 or 9 oz she still can't go any longer than the three hours. Maybe I just have a 3 hour EASY baby?

Generally she's seemed a good deal happier and less tired over the last few days (therefore I am too!), which is a massive relief. Wondering if it was a bad combo of jabs and teeth movement.

The cluster feeding was a success as she had a really good feed before she went to bed, I still didn't have any joy with the DF though.

Both today and yesterday morning she has woken at 5am on the nose, and after a few attempts I have managed to get her to take her dummy and go back to sleep until 7 or 7.30am. It suggests to me that the early waking is habit more than hunger, do you have any suggestions how I can break the habit? I'm just conscious that if she needs me to go in and give her the dummy in order to go back to sleep I am using it as a prop.

Thanks again!

[Jazmyn]

Is there a possibilty that she could need a richer milk?

Just curious as I had to change my babies milk to a richer one as he just wasnt satisfied on the milk he was on.

[* Paula *]

She could just be a hungry baby, and agree with PP she could need a richer milk.

With regards to the 5:00am waking, if she is going back to sleep with the pacci, then it may not be hunger, it may be a habit.  If you do not want her to get too hooked on her pacci, you could try offering her water at this wake up, and if she genuinly is not hungry, after a few days she is not going to bother waking up for water.

With regards to the DF - not every lo takes to the dreamfeed, so would just persist clusterfeeding.

HTH

Paula x