Author Topic: CLINGY BEYOND BELIEF AND SLEEP PATTERN NON EXISTANT- HELP!  (Read 998 times)

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Offline lynnmc

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CLINGY BEYOND BELIEF AND SLEEP PATTERN NON EXISTANT- HELP!
« on: November 07, 2006, 23:09:46 pm »
Hi There,
Firstly an apology to BW as i only joined in August and have not been back since, due to personal reasons and just not having energy to read and type.  I`m here now and all I can think of is going to bed and if lo will wake b4 i finish.
Basically i have a handful of issues and will do best and be as clear as i can.
My lo is now nearly 17mnth old and sleeping in big bed which i know is a no no! I had already tried pu/pd with help off BW last time and for 2wks we did good but slowly declined and ended up where we are now.

We are short of room and only have a 2 bedroom house at moment, my older boy now 12 years old has second room. Our room is small and cot is right nxt to my side of bed as it`s the only place it can go.
We did get a new bed for kids room which has a bed that slides under and is low down, ideal for maybe starting lo off.  This will cause such disruption for our older son though and seems so unfair and we don`t know how to tackle it.

LO is not even in his cot at moment and when he wakes he always screams terribly. He does go to bed between 7pm and 8pm and has one nap a day which can sometimes vary in time. 

During the day Lo won`t leave my side at all and sometimes depending on mood i can`t even stand to move around living room without him screaming.
At play groups he is stuck to me also and won`t move away at all.
He also squeals all the time when he sees something he wants, or wants to go somewhere rather than walking over himself. This at the moment is more or less all day.  Sometimes it is being bad tempered when he`s not getting his own way and other times i think it can be frustration as he`s not talking yet, other times it`s seperation anxiety.

Sorry this sounds so bad, we always home in on the negative things and forget the positive. 
I must say its not all bad at the moment as Matthew has a lovely sense of humour as well and has an infectious laugh and cuddles and kisses for fun.   Very spirited i think!

Must go, hope someone can help me feel a little better somehow and tell me I`m not the only one with these issues.
Thanks, and take care all !!!!  Mum to Matthew 17mnth old and Jack 12 years old.

Offline aidenmc

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Re: CLINGY BEYOND BELIEF AND SLEEP PATTERN NON EXISTANT- HELP!
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2006, 00:57:54 am »
Hi there!

I just wanted to tell you that I know exactly how you are feeling! My 16 month old has had those days too and it has been really draining. His sleep is horrible and I am desperately hoping things will change soon. The clinginess is at its worst with my lo when he is overtired and especially when teething - which he has been suffering from for months. It is really hard to see out of those rough days because they seem to go on forever! My lo just got over a long bout of teething and colds and all I could think of was how miserable his babyhood and toddlerhood seemed. Have you checked you lo's mouth for molars? Thew screaming at night makes me think he is in pain. I can hardly remember them coming in for my older son but they are just terrible for Aiden. It also upsets his tummy which just adds to the problems.

As for the squealing for things out of his reach. That is a normal developmental thing. They can see what they want but just don't quite realize they can just alk right over and get it. I find this behaviour and general frustration is worse when my lo is feeling bad.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that someone else is dealing with the same thing as you (and nightwaking up to 6 times a night! - see my post about 16 month-old) and that it will pass. Just do what you can to comfort and get him as much sleep as possible, including maybe a slightly earlier bedtime if the nap is short.

Good luck!

Becky
Becky,
Mom to Kieran (10/15/2000); Aiden, (7/ 8/ 2005); and Samuel (7/10/2010)

Offline lynnmc

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Re: CLINGY BEYOND BELIEF AND SLEEP PATTERN NON EXISTANT- HELP!
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2006, 16:00:57 pm »
Hi Becky,
Thanks for that.  Your right it always gets much worse when he is poorly and also over tired.  He has just cut one back tooth and it seems to be taking forever but its nearly through.  We have one starting on the other side now.  His crying happens every time he wakes and most times its screaming. Do you think this could be off pain every time with his teeth?

I don`t know about you but when i look around Matthew always seems to be the only one doing the screaming, maybe it just seems this way when it`s you going through it.  I just feel like his is quite extreme at the moment.

Will try and get back later as he is on the rampage in the kitchen just now.

Thanks for your reply Becky.   Bye for now. 

Offline TDR'smom

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Re: CLINGY BEYOND BELIEF AND SLEEP PATTERN NON EXISTANT- HELP!
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2006, 17:52:06 pm »
lynnmc,

Sorry I have not had a chance to thoroughly read your post but get the general idea.  Wanted to offer you (hugs) as my 17 month old has been quite a handful lately also. 

In regards to waking up crying...I know that happens when DS is overtired.  Could you try putting him down before he gets too tired.  (I know easier said than done).  How long are his naps?  If he is not able to transition to the next sleep stage, he could be waking up too early and not fully rested.  You could maybe try Wake To Sleep for that.

I will re read your post later when I have more time and respond with more. 

In the meantime.  Take a deep breath.  It will get better. 

xoxoxo
Judy
Judy







Offline Florencia

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Re: CLINGY BEYOND BELIEF AND SLEEP PATTERN NON EXISTANT- HELP!
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2006, 19:21:28 pm »
Oh I remember it also. 18 months was a tough age for us. I used to think of how miserable my lo was and that he would never be able to socialize like the other kids. It passes, i guarantee you. A lot of it had to do with my lo getting verbal. He'd get frustrated if he'd want something and i wouldn't give it to him or i made a mistake interpreting him. Ladies on Discipline board were lifesavers to me. I had to rephrase everything, think of it of a different angle, plan outings really well and watch like a hawk before a meltdown but it didn't last long. Once I had a plan, it seemed much easier than just worrying about my little riot. I strongly recommend you to post or even surf around the discipline board for ideas on that subject. You'll feel releived to find out you're not the only one struggling with a cranky lo.

Now as for the sleep part, this can contribute a lot with the crankiness. Tired babes can't socialize well, and I'm afraid that's part of the problem with your lo. Be sure to provide a structured routine for naps and bedtime, to track his sleep patterns ( i know you say they are non existant, but if you look closely you might be surprised to find out he wakes at a given time, or some time after he goes down, or every X hours (or minutes!) etc.).

As for moving him to another room, i'd strongly suggest to wait until the other sleep issues are solved.

Be sure to post back with questions, problems, prgress or even a vent. We'll be here for you!
Mom to Manolo, spirited monkey and Jose Miguel, an angel cupcake

Offline lynnmc

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Re: CLINGY BEYOND BELIEF AND SLEEP PATTERN NON EXISTANT- HELP!
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2006, 22:09:11 pm »
Hi everyone,

Thanx so much for all the advice it certainly makes you feel better.
 
I will try and remember all advice given in this reply and be as quick as i can b4 lo wakes, older son just back from football half hour ago and dividing attention is so important.

Matthews pattern can vary but most of time this is how it goes.

Wakes 6-7am (sometimes still shattered but awake 5.30am)
Downstairs and very still and sleepy on my knee usually for 30mins at least.

Drink juice or his milk, toast or cereal.

10am  snack of fruit and yoghurt.
(Sometimes he can nap around this time depending on when he woke up.)

11.30am  Naptime. This can be 30mins, and if i sit with him he can stay over for another hour.
When he wakes off nap if only for 30mins when he comes down stairs he will go back to sleep on my knee.

Normally has his dinner not long after waking.

3pm Snack

5pm Teatime

6pm Bathtime

Matthew loves his milk still from his bottle and always has one 1/2 hr b4 bedtime.

7-8pm Bedtime.  Have still kept routine of quiet time in room with story and lullabyes, but now i have adopted bad habit of putting him down in our big bed and laying with him until asleep. I know! I`m so embarrassed as it has all gone wrong. I was always so full of good intentions.  He generally wakes then maybe 2 times b4 we go 2 bed and sleeps through until wake time but some nights very restless and can wake screaming.

Unfortunately i`m the one who puts Matthew 2 bed and will only settle for me and wants me when he wakes.  He has an attachment 2 my ponytail and plays with my hair day and night and litrally pulls it out sometimes when twisting it.

I agree his sleeping issues need sorted b4 we ever make an attempt 2 change rooms.  It seems like that is something that will never happen right now.

Also his teeth are certainly playing a big part in the crying i think and this definitely effects his behaviour.  Being overtired proberbly comes into it alot as well, especially sometimes at play group as i leave a little early when i see him getting chewy with tiredness.

It`s great to read others reactions 2 your mail as you can see things people are saying making sense and sounding so familiar,  thanx 2 all again.           

Will check out discipline board thanx!

LYNN VERY GREATFUL MUM! 
 

Offline Florencia

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Re: CLINGY BEYOND BELIEF AND SLEEP PATTERN NON EXISTANT- HELP!
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2006, 18:27:14 pm »
Hi there Lynn!
What I'm about to write is my personal experience. Your case sounds so much like mine back then when i had to get into sleep kamp LOL so I'm gonna tell you my experience and what worked for me so hopefully you'll find some tips that work for you.

we went into a downwards spiral regarding to sleep when ds was teething. The first bad period was when he was 13 mos and it was about 3 weeks of bad sleep (with 2 regular night wakings that could last for hours if i didn't catch them properly). He teethed 1 molar and 1 eyeteeth during that period and after trying EVERYTHING we solved it with a dr. visit upping his pain medication and his reflux one (since he had to take such a high dosage of meds, his reflux reactivated and that was making the problem worse). Silly me i thought that was over and that i was the sleep queen. Back then we would only face night issues cause nap was still 2.5-3 hours long although it could take us up to 30 mins to finally get him asleep.

2 months later ds decided to teethe 3 more teeth plus the 3 molars that were left. Oh funny 2 month period. Yes you've heard it right, it was a 2 month period. I started at the first month trying with the meds but no go there. Then things became worse and the nap got 45 mins long, a hell to be put down, hell when waking, early mornings, countless wakings at night time... you get the picture. Fortunately or unfortunately (ill never know for sure LOL) i wasn't breastfeeding at that time so breast was not an option. He'd just wake and freak out and wouldn't want ANYTHING (not being held, not being patted, nothing but scream for hours and hours with me sobbing too). You get the picture. I work part time too so it was awful to get up in the morning (it's a saying cause i was already up from 3 am LOL) and go to work like a zombie. Every little thing seemed awful to me and because of the lack of sleep, ds was confused aboutw hen nap time was. I never knew when to lay him down and it started causing a strain in my marriage. I remember particularly in my bday, dh and some friends took me out for lunch. I was stressing all the time about ds's nap which of course was 25 mins long that day. He wouldn't drink his bottles either (he was EXHAUSTED all the time so we faced some eating issues too, apparently he was too crabby and tired for eating). I came back home early from a crappy lunch i didn't enjoy and everyone who called me afterwards to wish me a happy bday had to leave a message cause ds would scream his head off if i left his side. Funny bday, i know...

That very day i decided things needed a drastic change and this was my plan:
1. I decided that WE (the 3 of us) needed to sleep more than anything in the world. So since sleep was our priority we'd hang around in not so clean clothing and lame ironed. Yes, you have to stablish priorities. Laundry, ironing and fancy meals got the last rank on my priority list.

2. Since it was already december and i was gonna get a christmas bonus and a 2 week vacation i decided that i needed some more time off so i asked for another 2 week without payment (of course, my boss is not that understanding LOL so he agreed id be out of the office without $$$). I always say this was the key decision for me. Since i stopped worrying about waking (or being up) early in the morning, getting dressed and rush out of my home then call a huge amount of times to see how ds was doing and wondering when the nap would be and rushing home to extend the nap... i relaxed a lot knowing that my only responsibility would be ds's sleep. In your case, you can try and book a couple of hours every day when it's just you and Jack's time, nomatter what Mattew is doing or needing, book those speacial hours for you and Jack. Then, let him know that you're gonna need him to understand that for family's sake you have to work the rest of the day with Matthew so you all can be happier. I'm sure he'll understand if he gets his share of the pie (that is special and unbreakable time with you no matter what). Have someone watch Matthew during that time, no matter how cranky he gets. It's only a couple of hours and he'll live LOL.

3. What I did regarding to sleep? watch watch and track. I did gradual withdrawal for each and every sleep period (naps and bedtime). I layed him down and put my mattress next to his crib and try and go to sleep myself too. If i woke up 30 mins later, i'd read or do a craft (i even got a clip lamp that helped me during those rough days LOL). Since my priority was sleep, dh had then to make dinner, live on frozen meals, order a pizza and do his laundry. IT was fair since we all needed our sleep back. It was particularly helpful for naps cause i'd be there for the first stirr and was able to catch it, track it, and then get ds back to sleep easier than back then when i jsut waited for him to wake and all hell break loose. Sometimes it was a change in breathing that was solved with my hand on his tummy or back and that was enough to send him to the next sleep phase. I assure you i wasn't inside the room for the entire nap for more than a week. By then i was stuck in the 1:45 hr mark (a dream come true but i wanted more, i knew he needed more cause he'd still wake crying and looking tired). So i'd just lay him down, leave the room and stand outside the door at the 140 hr mark, then going in and help him for another 20 mins cause i wanted the nap to be 2 hrs long. Another week of work and that was solved too.

4. With the nap being consistantly long and with ds relearning how to change between sleep pahses, the night wakings got solved easier. Now i just had to deal with the early mornings. I did it with gradual withdrawal as well. He'd wake in the morning, i'd go and sleep in my mattress next to his bed and tell him it was night time. First days he'd scream, play, shout, whatever but i just kept pretending to be asleep and telling him that he might go to sleep or hold my hand but we were not waking up yet. Another week of work and that was solved too, at first he'd go back to sleep after 45 mins or riot and would sleep 15 mins only so i'd get him up at the same time each day so nap would be at the same time and we wouldn't loose track. Slowly i started seeing progress (we had setbacks too but i kept consistant) and one awesome day i didn't have to go back to his room early in the morning anymore.

I'll never know if it was this plan or that he finally stopped teething. But the structured plan helped us keep the sanity and looking at the final goal. It has been easier to deal with setbacks too. So the key words for me were focusing on what was wrong and being extremely consistant with everything, no matter how tired I was. It is such a tough process and so heartbreaking too cause some days are hopeless and you think nothing's gonna change ever. But it does, I guarantee you.

I hope things are better at your home and that my little novel helps you in some way. Be sure to post back cause we'll be here for you!
Mom to Manolo, spirited monkey and Jose Miguel, an angel cupcake

Offline lynnmc

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Re: CLINGY BEYOND BELIEF AND SLEEP PATTERN NON EXISTANT- HELP!
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2006, 23:14:59 pm »
Hi Florencia,
Thanx so much for your time and all your help, I will read over your last mail several times.  You really went through it and perservered.  I must admit I have been there with the tears over the last few weeks and trying to old it together so Jack does`nt pick up on the stress completely is hard. And no matter how much you try not to let it effect your relationship with partner it does.

Your right I do need to make sure Jack gets time out with me.     
We`ve always done this anyway but it tends to be Jacks dad who has time out with him to give him a break from the screaming, they go play pool or go for a meal.  Being honest though I don`t really have this and it it would be lovely to have it back as I miss our one to ones. Does that sound silly!

B4 I forget I`ve had a quick look over at the disipline section and a great big thanx again, as straight away I spotted parents with squealing LO`S and advice. I`m going to try and have another look now.  I feel so much better and supported off what I read. Good stuff!

Florencia your a star.  Lynn  xxxxxx