Author Topic: PU/PD and WTS not working for 4.5 month old's naps  (Read 17631 times)

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Offline laurencopenhaver

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Re: PU/PD and WTS not working for 4.5 month old's naps
« Reply #60 on: December 06, 2006, 17:59:03 pm »
That's still  on track though and consistent; nothing with him is the same.  He never eats or sleeps at the same time.  Sometimes he eats at 10 sometimes 11;  he has absolutely no routine anymore what so ever.  I'm trying but I can't do it.  I never know when he's hungry.  Twice today, after his morning nap that was 45 min he was screaming so I thought he was hungry.  He wouldn't eat more than 3 oz.  Then 1.5 hrs. later he napped again and woke after 30 min.  He started screaming and wouldn't settle so I thought he was hungry. Nope, he would only eat 2 oz.  So he never gets a full meal anymore, and won't eat but a little so I always think he's hungry and he won't ever eat.  So every couple hours after 2 oz or so I think he's got to be hungry and never is.  All day today (It's 1:00) he's eaten a total of 5 oz.  Things seem to be getting worse.  What is my problem!  I can't take another month or more of this.  Why can't I get some consistency.

Do you think I should start giving a full feed at 5:45 and just say forget it.  At least then he might eat better throughout the day.  He'll be eating right before naps, but at least maybe he'll eat.

Offline laurencopenhaver

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Re: PU/PD and WTS not working for 4.5 month old's naps
« Reply #61 on: December 06, 2006, 18:27:27 pm »
My gut is telling me that it's b/c of this all of a sudden waking at 5:45 when waking at 7 for 4 months.  And not feeding in the morning I think is his biggest problem b/c then we're both messed up b/c I cannot tell when he's hungry, mad or frustrated or tired.

I don't understand, what do you mean you wouldn't let him sleep way late cause I won't get naps...

And am I supposed to keep him in his crib until 7 AM no matter what?  Will that help him to establish that it's not time to get up at 5:45 or 6?  I don't think he'll go back to sleep after a full feed at 5:45, but should I just keep him in his crib anyway for as long as I can?  Keep him swaddled, and see if he'll either talk to himself or fall back asleep?

Offline marijke

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Re: PU/PD and WTS not working for 4.5 month old's naps
« Reply #62 on: December 06, 2006, 19:04:42 pm »
Hi there, I've been following your posts because we're going through the same thing. I was like you trying to control it all and getting more and more upset by this (my son wouldn't follow a routine no matter how hard I tried). I drove my boyfriend mad and we agreed I would try and let it go a bit. I still try to follow a routine, but if my son is hungry at 5.00 I give him a full feed if he needs it and then 4 hours later again. If he wakes at 4.00 (like he did the past 2 nights) I try to make him go back to sleep and if he won't I take him in our bed so we can at least all sleep for another hour. I know this is accidental parenting but sometimes if something works and it feels ok I think it's better to do this then stress because you shouldn't...
Every day is different with us too, but that's ok (I can say that now after 4 months of stress because my son wouldn't do EASY...) and we try to enjoy our son just like he is (although this isn't EASY sometimes...).
Hope you can work things out...

Offline laurencopenhaver

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Re: PU/PD and WTS not working for 4.5 month old's naps
« Reply #63 on: December 06, 2006, 20:47:28 pm »
Here's what I'll try; let me know if you think this is okay...

When he wakes at 5:45 I'll give him a full feed (as long as he didn't just eat at 4 or something) and try like hell to get him back to sleep.  If he does, great, we can work on feeding again when he wakes.  I would wake him no later than 7:00 anyway b/c I take my husbands child to school.  If he fights and screams and won't go back to sleep I'll do what you say, keeping it dark and quiet.  Hopefully I can do this all in his crib until 7.  I just know this early wake up is screwing him up.
What is the purpose of only having a 45 min nap in the morning if he doesn't go back to sleep.  What does that do?

I'm going to put him down b/t 5:30  and 6 tonight.  I know he'll still wake early, but I think he needs more sleep.

What do you think I should do about the wake to sleep.  Did you read my post about going in at 4 last night and that alone stirred him b/c he was sleeping very light.  Should I do it earlier, and would that defeat the purpose of trying to break the 5:45 wakeup if done earlier than 4?

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Re: PU/PD and WTS not working for 4.5 month old's naps
« Reply #64 on: December 06, 2006, 21:55:22 pm »
Well the first nap of the day is an extension of night sleep.  If its too early or too long it can  really make a baby keep waking early. Why sleep to 7 am if i can get a nice long nap at 8?  So you cant not give it, but you can just keep it shorter and then make the longer  nap later in the day.

Wake to sleep, i really dont know, ive never done it for nights but for naps soemtimes you have to experiment with times and amount of touch etc.  Again it also doesnt work for everyone.

The plan otherwise is fine

Sorry to thread jack here for a second - but a question on what you said about a nap too early in the am can cause early am wake ups.

How early is too early? I put madison down 1hr45mins from wake up give or take a bit (sometimes 2 hours depending on her). Is that too soon?

Offline laurencopenhaver

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Re: PU/PD and WTS not working for 4.5 month old's naps
« Reply #65 on: December 07, 2006, 00:09:12 am »
okay I understand "why sleep till 7 if I can get a long nap at 8."  But usually he's only taking a 45 min nap b/c he wakes hungry.  So that's fine, but how long should I keep him up after that first nap?  Should he be able to stay awake the full 2+ hours?  And if he doesn't stay up the full awake time, won't he only want a 45 min nap b/c he wasn't up very long?  This is all very confusing. 

Today was a disaster.  He took 4 naps;  45 min, 30 min., 45 min, and 1 Hr 15 min.  I tried putting him to bed at 6 but he didn't fall asleep until 7.  Was it because he napped from 4-4:50; too close to early bedtime?  He hadn't slept well at all today so when he woke before at 3 and I was planning on putting him to bed at 6 I figured he'd need a catnap in b/t there.  Should I have just kept him up the full awake and put to bed at 5:30?  That seems so early but I guess if he's getting up at that time he needs that sleep.

Offline laurencopenhaver

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Re: PU/PD and WTS not working for 4.5 month old's naps
« Reply #66 on: December 07, 2006, 11:57:58 am »
Since he's up at 5:45 his first nap is usually at 8, then he'll sleep for 45 min then cried b/c he was hungry.  Then he was up from  8:45-11 then sleep for 30 min., tried to extend but cried and cried; was up from 11:30-1:30, napped again from 1:30-3:00 only sleeping for an hour to an hour and 15, then kept burying his face in me and fussy so I put him back down at 4 and he went right to sleep.  I put him down (I think) when he's tired.  Am I supposed to keep him up?  When he only gets a 30-45 min nap how is he supposed to stay up for 2+ hours?  What am I supposed to do?

Things are getting worse.  Today he woke at 4 so I fed him a dilluted 6 oz., he ate 4 of it.  Then he woke at 5:20, quiet noise quiet noise until 5:30 then mantra until 5:45; I went in tried to put him back to sleep and by 6:15 was screaming bloody murder.  I couldn't even sit quietly in his chair w/out him screaming b/c he didn't want to go back to bed.  I took him out of the room at 6:30 and he was fine.  Now I will only let him sleep 45 min first nap (Which he only will anyway b/c he'll be hungry), then how long am I supposed to keep him up?  Won't he be tired after 1.5 hours at the most?

I don't understand; I've done everything you and Tracy have said and it's not working.  What is my problem?  I'm sure it's a possibility I might be reading his cues wrong, but he doesn't really show cues.  I put him down when he buries his head in me, that's the only cue he shows.  He will rub his eyes and pull at his ears but usually if I wait until then he goes down a lot harder, which doesn't that mean he's overtired?  And when he gets up at 5:45, how can he not have 4 naps when he'll only sleep for 30-45 min.  Sometimes when I don't know if he's hungry I'll try feeding him after he wakes and if he oly takes 2 oz. he's not hungry.  So instead of getting him up should I be trying to put him back to sleep after his 30-45 min nap?  I've never done that, I just assumed that once I got him up and tried to feed him it was too late to put him back to bed.  That could be my problem.

Okay so he's been up since about 5:30, I'll have to put him down by 8; he'll only sleep for 45 min which means he'll be up at 8:45;  feed/diaper change/play then won't he need to nap again around 11?  Say 11-1 ideal.  Then up for 2+ hours, nap at 3 or 3:30 for 30-45 min, then bed at 5:30-6:00?  Is that what I should do?  He's supposed to take two 2 hour naps, but if his morning nap is only 45 min won't that mess him up?  His late afternoon nap I've been letting him sleep for an hour or more if he sleeps longer.  Could that be my problem too?  Their afternoon nap needs to be short?  But usually it's worked out that he'll have 2+ hours to go after he wakes up from that nap so I let him sleep longer so he'll only have 2 or less hours before bed.  Am I doing this all wrong?  It's so hard now that he wakes so early.  I still want to push back the wakeup.

Offline riuliani

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Re: PU/PD and WTS not working for 4.5 month old's naps
« Reply #67 on: December 07, 2006, 17:34:36 pm »
I'm sorry but I am also going to thread jump for a second.

Stacy, what are the most common signs of an overtired baby?  We have started to have problems staying asleep for all nap and bedtimes.  I think this may be why but I am not sure the best way to correct it.  Of course he needs to catch up on sleep but how do you catch up on sleep?  I am assuming the routine has to go out the window for a bit.

Any tips to correct overtiredness would be helpful, expecially since Christmas is coming up and that will likely tire him out even more.  I would like to nip it in the bud.

Thanks
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Offline laurencopenhaver

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Re: PU/PD and WTS not working for 4.5 month old's naps
« Reply #68 on: December 07, 2006, 19:00:06 pm »
I have no choice but to keep him up until 7:45 AM.  I have to take my other child to school and I leave at 7:20 at the earliest and get back by 7:30-7:35 so 7:45 is the earliest I can put him down.  So if he's up at 5:45 I have no choice but to keep him up 2 hours.  You just said not to let him sleep late the first nap, do I keep doing this?  If he only sleeps 45 min he'll need to go down 1.5 hours later right?

And how do I catch him up on sleep now so he's not overtired?

Offline laurencopenhaver

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Re: PU/PD and WTS not working for 4.5 month old's naps
« Reply #69 on: December 07, 2006, 22:58:15 pm »
Okay he napped for 45 min until 3:40; I put him back down at 5 fwhich was 1 hr and 20 min awake.  He layed there eyes wide open staring at me for 25 min w/out the slightest hint of closing his eyes.  Does that mean he wasn't tired yet.  He started closing his eyes after 25 min then didn't fall asleep until 5:45.  What does this indicate? 

I will work on the getting to school a little earlier.  By the way, when you say a nap after 1.5 hrs awake, does that mean sleeping at the 1.5 hr mark, or wind down at the 1.5, or in his crib at the 1.5; maybe I'm getting that mixed up too.  When I say down for a nap at 1 I mean that's what time he went through the stages and fell asleep.

Is it alright if I go back to the DF, I think I had better luck with that.  how do I let the overtiredness cylce be broken that you were talking about?  If tomorrow he wakes at 5:45, I'll put him down (asleep?) by 7:15 and do I let him sleep for more that 45 min or wake him and make it a short nap like you talked about before. 

I could definitely drive around and let him get a catnap if he falls asleep in the car like he did this morning.  How long do I let him sleep?  I guess this goes with what I just mentioned about waking him or lettin sleep that first nap.

How long will it take to catch up on overtiredness and how do I do it?

Offline laurencopenhaver

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Re: PU/PD and WTS not working for 4.5 month old's naps
« Reply #70 on: December 07, 2006, 23:17:42 pm »
Alright I'll give it a couple more days.  But what about everything else I said?

Offline laurencopenhaver

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Re: PU/PD and WTS not working for 4.5 month old's naps
« Reply #71 on: December 07, 2006, 23:30:46 pm »
Okay I kind of got mixed up.  When and if he starts sleeping later, say until 6 or 6:30, do I still keep the AM nap only to 1 hour, or extend it? 

I was re-reading what Tracy said in her book about early wakeups.  She said to keep quiet until 7.  Don't give any wakey wakey time.  Feed at 5:30 and put back to sleep.  Earlier I mentioned that this morning he screamed bloody murder and wouldn't stop.  Wasn't hungry, but I walked out of his room to calm him down and every time I sat in his chair or even entered the room he screamed b/c he knew I was trying to put him back to sleep.  What should I do about this.  I'm afraid if I continue to get him up early, even 6 or 6:30 he won't ever sleep until 7.  What do you think?

Offline Lana

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Re: PU/PD and WTS not working for 4.5 month old's naps
« Reply #72 on: December 08, 2006, 01:18:50 am »
Hey there sorry to jump in so late but could you please post what your day normally looks like?  Do you breast or bottle feed? 

You mention that you have another little one as well how old is that one?


Offline laurencopenhaver

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Re: PU/PD and WTS not working for 4.5 month old's naps
« Reply #73 on: December 08, 2006, 12:09:55 pm »
You're right about slowing down, my husband said the exact same thing last night.  he said you're so worried about what he should be doing you're probably stressing him out even more.  And I was thinking myself yesterday, as he is growing and changing so much, that I better just start enjoying him and not worry so much about what I want him to do.  He's a very happy baby, no matter if he's tired or what, so I do need to just enjoy him.  He's perfect the way he is.

Okay, so he fed 6 oz at 12:30 last night.  Woke again at 5, so I thought he might be hungry, so I tried to feed him.  He only ate 2 oz but I got him to go back to sleep until 6:20 is when he woke up.  I let him lay there mantra/talking until 6:50.  I will put him to bed by 8:05-8:10.  When and if he wakes after 45 min-1 Hour do I try to get him back to sleep or get him up is my big question?

Offline laurencopenhaver

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Re: PU/PD and WTS not working for 4.5 month old's naps
« Reply #74 on: December 08, 2006, 14:45:54 pm »
Read previous one too

So I did exactly what you said; He woke at 6:20 and so I had him asleep by 8:10, 1 hr 50 min later.  Although he didn't show an ounce of being tired.   He didn't yawn at all, rub his eyes, bury his head or anything.  Then he woke 35 min later.  I let him mantra for 25 then I went up their and just stood by him for a half hour.  He was calm as could be, eyes wide open, not a hint of being tired or going back to sleep.  So he laid in his crib for an hour awake.  Does this count as awake time, and since his nap was only 35 min does he need to be asleep again in 45 min.  If this is the case I'll be spending the entire day in his room!  Was he not tired at 1 hr 45 min this morning?  I din't get him out of his crib until 6:50, does that half hour he mantra'd count as awake time, is that why he didn't seem tired.  I'm way confused.  I did exactly what you said and he didn't seem tired at all or wanting to sleep or go back to sleep.