desperate for help w/habitual early riser (13 mos.)

[Florencia]

Oh now I'm stumped too!

As I read your posts I'm convinced that we must be missing something. He's clearly overtired and the proof of this was the day that he had good naps and was pleasant was the day he woke slightly later. Now this 330 am waking is really disturbing, somethings happening around the 8 hour mark during his sleep cycle... have you checked his diaper? is he wet around that time? one mom around here not so long ago discovered that her lo 4 am wakings were due to heat being too high. She was freezing but apparently her lo needed a fresher environment.

I'd just keep at what you're doing, hopefully the 330 am waking was a one day thing. Perhaps he's still tired from the thanksgiving night (remember that sleep is cumulative) and this week is going to be a bit wacky. Remember to be consistant with your plan (don't change timings or things) to see if we can work through this week. I'm sorry that my advice sounds so lame, i wish i had something smarter to say. I'll be thinking of you and sending virtual hugs!!

[binxyboo]

Oh I'm sorry to hear this. Did you feed him at 3:30 when he woke?

[Leosmama]

no, I didn't feed him because I worked so hard to break the habit of being picked up and nursed when he woke in the night.

I considered the diaper thing, and tried for a couple of nights changing it, but it didn't seem to make a difference.  I thought his room might be a bit too chilly by that time, so I've started putting a blanket on him at bedtime.  Only problem is, it gets thrown off in the night and the one time I was able to replace it was after that 4am df, and he did sleep later.  Who knows?  I've wracked my brain trying to figure it out.  As I've said, he's been showing signs of teething off and on for going on 2 months now.  Maybe it's a combo of working on molars and chronic overtiredness?

So of course he was totally sleep deprived after last night and had crappy naps, so I put him down at....5:30pm  !!!  I'm a little nervous about putting him down so early, but he was clearly in need of it.
I'm actually considering doing a one-time df at 10:00pm just to help him get through the long stretch of a night.

Thanks again...you all are so sweet to be helping me out with this.

Jennifer

[aidenmc]

Hi Jennifer,

I tend towards the softer side of things (to my own peril I know) so I would probably have fed him at 3:30 anyway. Although I do remember Tracey saying to get them back to sleep then do a dream feed when you are trying to train them (although I think that was with younger lo's). Anyway, for Aiden there is definitely a difference between the times he wakes and can just be given a little pat and when he seems to be hungry. The cries are harder and more insistant. You could be dealing with teething and also hunger. I know you have worked so hard to get him to fall asleep independently (and he does it beautifully by the sounds of it!) but maybe he still needs something to get him through till morning.

Good luck tonight. Maybe the extra early night will be just what he needs!

Becky

[binxyboo]

I would have fed him too I think, as it was so close to 4am. The first molar was so hard on Riley, and on me, LOL.

[aidenmc]

I have had months of really tough days and nights because of Aiden's molars. I was really starting to worry because he was not often a happy little guy. The last little while he has been a different boy and I know he is feeling better. If you suspect teething it can knock everything out of wack. I really started to try to tell myself that he would get better soon and he has. Your lo has come a long way and he will get there. While some babies seem to be able to sleep 12 hours from so early, there are so many individual differences. If that early morning feed is going to get him to sleep another hour or two and you get to keep your sanity then go for it. He would not have likely stayed up from 3:30 for the day. I really don't think you will undo all your hard work by giving one feed in the early morning. (Remember the feeding at nap times has not affected the nights!). Anyway, I think I might sound like I am lecturing but I really just wanted to say to go easy on yourself. You will both get there soon enough!

Good night!

[Katet]

Ok it is said you need to be consistent, BUT there are differences between how they go to sleep & how you re-settle... trust me I've been through it.
As he still needs some "help" to settle at the begginning of the night, resettling is a different issue.
Nest time he wakes comfort him with cuddles etc (for everyone's sanity) BUT ALWAYS be consistent at the start of night sleep & naps... & I know you are working on the Naps too.
So if he wakes in the night again (before what you regard as wakeup time) you don't have to be consistent & do what you do at bedtime, you just need to get him to sleep... once he learns to fall asleep at the start of the night without your help he will gradually transfer that skill to later times, so feed/cuddle what ever works the fastest... worked for me with both children as I have never done night sleep training & they both do (mostly) sleep through the night  - bar illness & teething &  for us with the current eye teeth coming through every thing for us is messed up eg 5.30am wake up/ 11 am nap 1 3/4 hours... from the usually pretty regular 6.30/7am wake up 2.5 hour nap... Can I say teething IS THE PITS... my ds#1's sleep improved 100 fold once he had all his teeth... they dont have to actually be pushing through just moving to make a difference too & seems to be worse in boys than girls (male pain gene  )
HTH

[Leosmama]

Oh yes, the teething    Lately I feel like I'm giving him Motrin on an almost daily basis!  Of course I never know for sure, but at bedtime and naptime he'll stand up and start gnawing away at his crib rail (thank goodness we have a guard!).  Then once he's lying down he'll have his fist and/or fingers in his mouth and will moan repetitively.  And this has been going on forever.  If this is his molars, I hope what you say is true about their sleep after they've come in.

So last night he went to sleep at 5:30pm, and I did a quick df (one side) at 10:15pm.  He slept till 5am, which for me nowadays is good!  I think 11.5 hrs is the absolute longest he's ever slept!  But here's where I'm really unsure about whether or not he needs one or two naps: if he takes a morning nap, like he did today from 9:30-10:30, he seems to be able to go such a long time before getting tired for an afternoon nap.  I just got him down at 2:40pm, and he'll probably sleep an hour.  The problem with this is, I then can't get him down early for bedtime because his nap is ending close to 4pm.  So, he goes to bed later, doesn't have as much sleep for the night, and then strangely cannot take a morning nap the next day so he just gets one short one in the late morning/early afternoon.  Then, he goes to bed super early, and the next day is a 2-nap day again.  It just seems to flip flop every day and I really can't tell if he's truly ready to go to one nap or not.  Should I wake him in the morning after 30 minutes, and keep offering the pm nap?

Thanks for all the feedback re. feeding for a night waking.  I was feeling a little guilty about the 3:30wakeup experience and think he probably really was hungry 

[binxyboo]

You know, I stopped giving Riley Motrin because as well as being hard on the tummy, it tends to wind him up and he stays awake on it. Just a thought....

The transition period to one nap can take while. At 16 months our schedule is :

7-8 :wake
12-2 or 3 :nap
7-8: bed.
We did have those flipfloppy days as you describe, but I found in the end an early bedtime helped him feel better rested allround, so we stuck with the one nap.

And please don't feel guilty about that nighttime feeding, ssometimes it's hard to know what to do in the middle of the night for the best.
We had nightfeeds until almost 14 months, I think, he just stopped all of a sudden, so there is hope for you yet!

[Leosmama]

OK, so if he wakes up around 3:40-4:00 from this nap, should I still try putting him down around 6 or 6:30?  Even if he doesn't seem at all tired?  Aaack, this is so confusing!

Although I don't want to prematurely push to one nap a day, in my gut I really feel that that would be best in the end.  He really does seem to do better with the really early bedtime.

[binxyboo]

I wasn't ready for two naps either, I enjoyed two breaks in the day , but he has done so much better on it. Riley would wake up at around 7 though, not a 5am or before. I am a firm believer in early bedtimes. I have read that sleep that occurs at the wrong time is not as restorative as sleep that occurs as biological times. Think of how disoriented you feel crossing time zones or on shift work, for example. So I never liked those late naps like you are having. Especially if they cause his bedtime to be later.

I would try to put him down early and see what happens, you never know. Sleep begets sleep.

[Katet]

I agree, after doing the 1/2 swap for 3months with ds#1 (not my choice, just he fell asleep on the way to daycare) I swapped to 1 pretty quickly & had some early bedtimes for a while when day naps were short... they did lengthen (until now & teething has made it go pair shaped) & we had a great 7.30-6.30/7 with 12-2/3naps... loved it & hopeful it will return soon as at the moment we are 6.30/7-5/5.30 (yuck with 1.5-2 hour naps & the odd cat nap from time to time as it is hard to accomodate needs of both children