Hungry or AP?

[Mamalou]

Hi.
My LO is 7 months old next week.  About a month ago he got his 2 first bottom teeth and before that we went on a big overseas trip with a 9hour time difference, so a lot went on.  He had a lot of night wakings and naps were off as well.  Now that we've been home over a month and the teething pain seems to have gone (although he is still biting and drooling and whining on occassion still)  we are still having night wakings.
On the birth club thread some suggested we try dropping the dreamfeed since he's getting that age, and it may be effecting his sleep.  He started waking for it anyhow.  So I've stopped it, I started doing it earlier at 10:30, then 10, and the last 2 nights I just haven't done it and he's woken around 1130.  I try to settle him by patting him but it hasn't worked.  I end up feeding him.  Last night I tried settling him 45 min, then fed him. 
Then, he sleeps until sometime betwen 330-5.  I'm trying to not feed him here, because while I thought he was waking for hunger before, I'd feed him, expecting he'd go back to sleep and we'd start the day at 7, but he doesn't usually go back to sleep and we end up starting the day as early as 5 somedays  

He was always waking around 6 or just before when I wanted him to wake at 7, so I decided to make a 6oclock wake up time and now he's waking at 5
My question is, is he hungry? Should I be feeding him?  The reason I think he may be is nothing that usually helps him (patting, rubbing head, etc) to settle helps.  He just cries harder and harder and the only thing that calms him is to feed him. 

He is breastfed, and I've also tried to 'up' his intake during the day by offering both sides at every feed. He's taking a little more, but still not much longer on second side. 
I know it'll take time, but wondering if I'm missing something, or if I should start PU/PD or...

Here's our routine:

6 E
7 cereal and fruit
830 nap (sometimes can go to 845)
sleeps for (45min to 1.5 hrs) 
10 E
11 lunch (fruit, veggie, smtms yogurt)
1230 nap 
(sleeps 45min to 1.5 hrs)
2 E
430 catnap usually 30-45 min
feed when he wakes around 5
A and bath at 630
top off before bed, bedtime 730

Usually he'll do one nap of 45 min and the other 1.5 hrs then a 30 or 45 min catnap. I try to extend 45 min naps, but if he's just getting more upset I take him out and do a quiet activity til feeding time.  The short nap varies (I mean it's not always the same nap that's short.

Thanks in advance for any advice..

Kristi

[motherof3]

Kristi-

I know that Rina had mentioned to me that earlier bed times can actually help a baby sleep in in the mornings.  Have you tried putting him to bed around 6:30pm to see if this helps with the early mornings?  The wake ups through the night are so hard to figure out.    Maybe you could try the earlier bedtime for a few nights and see if this helps with the night wakings and see if he would sleep till 6 or 7am.  I can't remember, since he does have the catnap in the evening, have you ever skipped the catnap and put him down earlier?  If so how does he do? 

Andrea

[Kimberly®]

I actually would recomend you take the cat nap out, feed a lost meal of solids at 5PM, 7 months is the perfict time for 3 meals a day, then have bedtime at 7, with the final feed right before bed.

This way he's tired enough to go to sleep, but not overtired, and also goes down on a full belly which should hopefully help him sleep longer.

Your 2 remaining naps should then be 1.5 hours each. Move nap #1 to 8am and nap #2 to 12pm this will prevent overtiredness and help lengthen the naps.

[Mamalou]

Thanks for your replies and advice
wanted to start dinner solids, so will do, should I start with cereal or just whatever?

I find when he goes earlier for  nap (say 8 am) he tends to sleep just 45 and have hard time extending. When his A time is 30-45 min more he tends to give us longer naps.

Stacy-funny you say it, because the last 2 days i've really been trying to get more food (bf)into him by offering him both sides.  Last night after catnap  he wasn't v interested in feeding at all, so let it go til after bath, and he fed for 45 min!  Sure he got tired in there, (why it took so long) but think you may have a point there...

Andrea- have tried earlier bedtimes but doesn't seem to make a difference on earlier wakings. Although usually has earlier bedtime if naps have been awful and/or seems v v tired.  So, haven't done it on a 'normal' day. Could try...

Last night he didn't wake for dreamfeed at all!! Yay! He woke at 4 am and I tried to soothe him 20 minutes, rubbing his belly and talking softly to him, then when it didn't work I tried PU/PD (read up on it yesterday in SAYP) and while it was v hard, Kubko finally went to sleep at 520. Thought he'd sleep til 7 (wishful thinking but he woke at 545 and I fed him.  Perhaps I should've done more PU/PD but I was v proud he'd made it that far, and I usually have a 15 min leeway time anyway.  He's down for 2nd nap down, woke after 40 min, but i was able to settle him back to sleep by rubbing/patting his back. 

Kimberly so it'd look like this?

E6
A
Esolids 7
A
S 800/830 -930/10
E 10
A
Esolids 11
A
S 1230-2
E 2
A
Esolids 5
A and bath
E last feed
S 7

ugh I don't  know. 2-7! That's too long.  And with 5 oclock dinner, do I bf before or the 2oclock is the bf before?  Maybe I should work on extending A times to 2.75-3 hours first?

[Mamalou]

hi, just to 'check in' here's how today looked:

E 545
A
E solids 7
A
S 820-9, then extended to 1030
E 1030
A
Esolids 1130
A
S 125-2, then extended to 3
E 300
A
E solids 500
Abath
E 645
in bed at 720, took a bit to sleep as he was a bit 'wired' (but smiling )

-meant to get him in bed by 7 but we were out and got home a bit later than expected.
He was fine though in that last A time but towards end a little fussy (might've put him in bed by 630 even--but went down fine, just walked in later and saw he was awake and smiling at me  )

how does that look? I guess we'll see how it goes tonight...

Kristi

[Mamalou]

Not sure if anyone cares....but Kubko slept through last night!!

The time I wrote last time, he woke,but I was able to just pat him back to sleep.  Then last night he slept through!  Yay for PU/PD and the feeding on both sides.  Feeds sure take a long time now!

NOt sure about dropping catnap as have dropped it last 3 days and he doesn't go to sleep right away, seems a bit 'wired'overstimulated or something .  HOw late can it go? I mean don't want it to mess up his nights...but he def gets tired/fussy but maybe he'll get more used to it, today actually stretched A time to 3 hours...

thanks for your advice.
Kristi

[binxyboo]

Yay for sleeping through!!!!

[Colin Macs Mom]

Of course we care, that's great!!

[lochiesmum]

Hi I would just like to say that my son is 7.5 months old and we are going through very similar things right now. I am in the process of eliminating the 3am feed (water only for the last 2 nights) and when that is done I will try the same for the dream feed. My son's bedtime is 8pm, it sounds late but I find with him that the earlier I put him to bed, the earlier he will wake in the morning, even with an 8pm bedtime, he still wakes at 6am ready and rearing to go. I cannot wait for the morning that I wake up and realise that the boy has slept through the night, I have a bottle of champagne ready for the occasion!!!! . For the last few weeks, my son has been having trouble going down for the late afternoon catnap and as a result seems "wired" and really overtired, he still however manages to have his soilds, bath and bottle without too much fuss and falls asleep by himself at around 8. Congratulations on a full nights sleep and I hope to report the same soon

[Mamalou]

hi and good luck to you too!  We're stll having wakings, but no feeding at night anymore. Now I know he can go with out it seems easier.  This catnap thing is hard to get just right, but we're moving to 3 hour A time, so he should be getting better about it.  Of course, now we're teething again, it just never ends, huh? good luck