Feeding or Screaming

[mommagoose]

My son, 5 months old, only sleeps in 2h intervals through the night.  If I try to put the soother back in he screams....not cries, screams and he hits my hand away, presses his lips closed, shakes his head in refusal of the soother.  (His room is next to my 3 year old so I can't let him scream for too long and wake my 3 year old up.)  Now, if I put him to the breast I can give him a little feeding and put him back to bed, usually in about 10 minutes.  But this happens every 1.5 to 2h.  I've tried white noise and music in his room.  I've tried introducing cereal.  We have a regular bedtime routine and regular naps, he has no problem going to sleep initially he just won't stay asleep.  He naps 2-3 times a day or 1-2 hour each time.  We try to get him to stay awake 3-4 hours before bedtime.  Nothing works.  I really don't want to bottle feed him as everyone keeps suggesting.  Is there anything else I can do?  Please help I am getting desperate.

[Colin Macs Mom]

Sounds to me like he has developed a feed-to-sleep association. Have you tried PU/PD? What's your routine like?

We try to get him to stay awake 3-4 hours before bedtime.  Nothing works.

I really urge you not to do this. That's far too long for a 5 month old to be awake and you'll only end up with an overtired, cranky LO who wakes even more and gets caught in a cycle of overtiredness.

[mommagoose]

I am using the EASY 3.5-4 schedule.  I have tried the PU/PD method.  However, this will continue for well over an hour until I give him the soother.  Then he falls asleep instantly for 30 - 60 minutes.  He has a great temperament through the day.  He is a perfect baby in the day. He naps when he should, for usually as long as he should.  We follow our regular bed time routine - bath, book, song, feeding - and he goes to bed without any difficulty, sometimes I put him down awake and he can fall asleep on his own.  But he just keeps waking up every 1-2 hours.  Last night he woke up every hour.  Now my husband was able to but the soother in his mouth and he went back to sleep without a problem.  I fed him only every three-four hours.  I am trying to cluster feed him closer to bed time to see if this will help.

I haven't been able to do a dreamfeed yet.  He wakes up at 9:30 (since I put him down at 7:30) every night.  So I feed him and put him down.  Should I try a dreamfeed at 9 before he wakes up and then again at 10:30ish?

[Colin Macs Mom]

At his age he should be on 4 hour EASY for sure, not 3.5 or 4. I think if you get the routine consistent that would make a big difference. I would also change up the bed time routine a bit, so that the feeding is not the last thing before bed. Like bath, feed, book, song. That will help break the feed to sleep association.

When you say you feed only even three - four hours, does that mean nighttime?    He definitely should not need to eat that often at night. At his age one feed at like 3am ought to suffice. I would NOT do a DF at 9 and then again at 10:30. I would do the 10:30 if you want to  DF and leave it at that.

[mommagoose]

Thank you so much for your advice.  I will try to change the bed time routine like you suggested.  We had a really good night last night.  My LO went to sleep at 7:30, then he started to stir around 9.  I was able to shh him back to sleep.  Then at 10 I did a DF.  My husband had to shh him to sleep a couple of times through the night, then I did a feeding at 2:30.  Then he slept though until 6:30am.  This is a huge improvement.  I think that the cluster feeding and the DF really helped.  I only hope that this will continue.

[Colin Macs Mom]

That is a huge improvement! I hope it continues for you    Keep me posted!

[mommagoose]

Well,  It has been a couple of days on the new routine and we are not having any success.  He is back to waking up every hour or so through the night.  Sometimes we can give him the soother and he will go back to sleep right away, and sometimes he screams for 30-60 minutes.  At which point he is so tired that he will finally take the soother and fall asleep (then he will wake up again in another hour for the same type of routine).  The PU/PD is still not working.  I feel like I have tried everything. 

The only improvement is that I don't have to feed him 5 or 6 times a night.  I feed him at 10ish, 2ish and 5ish.  We are still having a problem getting to 10 to do the DF.  He wakes at 9:30 - then I put him back to sleep, then he is usually up again at 9:45 at which point I may be able to get him back to sleep, if not then I have to feed him.  Should I bother trying to put him back to sleep at 9:30/9:45 only to wait 15 minutes to do a DF and hope that he doesn't wake up again in the 15 minutes? 

How can I get him to sleep longer?  We have the daily routine of EASY 4, PU/PD doesn't work (or I give up too soon, but I can't listen to him cry for over an hour....and it doesn't lessen even when I do it consistently over 4+ days), I am feeding him more during the day, and we have introduced rice cereal (in the evening).  Should I give him cereal at bedtime instead of at dinner? 

All of my family and friends are at a loss.  They can't believe that none of this works and what a terrible sleeper my LO is.  What is my next step?  Any suggestion or advice is more than welcomed.

Thanks

[Colin Macs Mom]

It will usually take more than a couple of days. It's very important to be consistent and stick with it. Some LOs, especially the spirited, will take longer to get with the program. I know mine does!

Plus if you're doing PU/PD you need to be confident and consistent with that as well.

[willowonyx]

Is it possible that he is teething?

[mommagoose]

It could be teeth.  I don't see any little buds.  Baby Oral gel and tempera don't seem to help.  Also this has been going on for 2-3 months.  Could teething pains continue to last that long?  I don't know.  However, we are still having problems.  I am having no success through the night and now we are having problems with the naps.  So things are worse than before.  What can I do?

[willowonyx]

It could be teeth.  I don't see any little buds.  Baby Oral gel and tempera don't seem to help.  Also this has been going on for 2-3 months.  Could teething pains continue to last that long?  I don't know.  However, we are still having problems.  I am having no success through the night and now we are having problems with the naps.  So things are worse than before.  What can I do?

If it has been that long, I don't think it is teething.  But it definitely sounds like there is a discomfort issue.  Have you taken him to the doctor?  I think that may be the next best step, becuase it could be something internal, like reflux.

[mommagoose]

I have taken him to the doctor and she said he looks healthy.  So I finally broke down and let him cry it out (like so many people have told me to do).  It was the hardest thing I have ever done.  After 48 hours of letting him cry the problem was solved.  We are now comfortable on the EASY 4 schedule.  He sleeps 1.5-2 hours for his am and pm naps, with a 30 minute cat nap in the evening.  Then he sleeps from 7 until 2-3ish (for a feeding - without a 10pm DF), then he goes back to sleep without any problem until 7ish.  Now, sometimes he wakes up in between these times but he is easily soothed back to sleep with his soother.  We have been doing this for almost a week without any problems. 

I don't recommend letting a baby 'cry it out' but we were at our wits end.  Thanks everyone for your help and support.

Now, when and how do I cut out the last nap?  When do you know they are ready?  I am not ready to do it anytime soon, but I was just wondering about the future.

[Colin Macs Mom]

Please understand that BW does not support CIO in any way shape or form. It goes against everything that BW is and that Tracy believed in. It teaches the LO nothing except that you will not be there when he/she needs you. Trust issues often develop from doing that. As a mod I must ask that you do not discuss CIO any further in an open forum.

[Maeve]

I don't think that was a discussion, just a mention, and an apologetic one at that. I don't think she was advocating CIO. Does having done that mean mommagoose gets no more advice?

[Maeve]

I'm sorry reading that, I realise it might sound rude and presumptuous, it isn't meant to be. And I am not a mod (obviuosly). So apologies if I have ofended anyone, especially Colin Mac's mum.

[Colin Macs Mom]

No worries Maeve, I'm not at all offended.    Of course it doesn't mean that she gets no more advice. It's that I have an obligation as a mod to keep things on track and BW-supportive. Tracy's family keeps this board up for all of us with the understanding that it remains BW based and things like CIO that Tracy was against are not discussed.   

Plus, a lot of times people do something like CIO without knowing what the reprocussions can be. 

[Maeve]

Good, I understand. Sorry for being Bolshie. I just imagined that mommagoose probably felt guilty about it anyway and I thought it might seem as if she could no longer use the website. None of my business anyway.
Thanks Jessica.

[mommagoose]

Thanks Jessica for your support.  That is exactly how I felt.  But in case anyone cares, my LO is doing great and we do not let him CIO.  It was a one time thing, I was desperate!  Nothing else was working.  However, we are back on track with the BW way and it is working great for us now.

[Colin Macs Mom]

You're funny Maeve.    As far as I'm concerned, if someone posts in an open forum then it's everyone's business.

I'm glad to hear that things are better for you mommagoose!!

[Maeve]

Oh good!