Mystery??

[Alenka]

There is some kind of mystery! Please help me to figure it out! No matter how the day looks like, evenings are always the same: My DS eats, has bath, goes to sleep, sleeps for 10-30 minutes and wakes up. And always at the same time! Around 9 or 9.30 pm. After it, he can’t fell a sleep till around 11pm. He is trying to fell a sleep, wakes up, and all over again. He is laying down quietly, then becomes fussy, then cries, then I calm him down and everything repeats again till about 11 pm. Why is it like this??? 

He is 7 weeks now and the rest of the day is perfect – he has good naps for about 1.5 hours, so he should not be tired. (morning naps are longer, about 2 or 2.5  hours). At night he wakes up once or twice for feeding. What is wrong with our nights? 

[tullyma]

Often they have a "fussy period" anywhere between 5pm and 11pm each evening. Lots of mums I know have found this. It's nicknamed the "witching time". So far I haven't found any reason why! So if anyone can shed light, it would be greatly appreciated  .

I heard one theory that babies have so much stimulation during the day, that they use the evening to "wind down", and crying helps them to do this. They really want to fall asleep but find it difficult b/c they're so "wound up". So they doze on and off, between fits of crying and fussiness.

[*Mona*]

hi there.

can you post your daily routine? maybe he's overtired and can't fall asleep for good?
if he wakes at 9/9:30 pm does it mean his bedtime is around 8:30? that would be a bit late for a 7 week old...

please post your routine and we'll see what we can do

[Alenka]

We don’t have a particular timely routine. It depends on what time we wake up and then I just follow his clues – feed him when he wakes up, some activity, put him to sleep when he is tired.
The last 4 days looked like this:

                Day 1                  Day 2                     Day 3                     Day 4

E and A   from 8.30 till 9.10      7.40 – 8.45        8.15 – 8.55        6.30 – 7.15
S           from 9.30 till 11.00     9.10 – 10.50      9.20 – 11.20      7.30 – 10.15

E&A       11.05 – 12.20         10.50 – 11.40      11.20 – 12.00      10.15 – 11.00
S          12.40 – 2.30           12.00 – 1.00       12.40 – 2.20        11.50 – 1.00

E&A       2.30 - 3.20             1.00 – 1.30         2.20 – 3.00          1.00 – 1.20
S          3.20 - 4.50             1.50 – 4.25         3.20 – 4.50          2.00 – 3.50
 
E&A      5.00 – 5.50             4.30 – 5.20         4.50 – 5.35          3.50 – 5.00
S          6.10 - 7.40             6.00 – 7.35         6.00 – 7.20          5.40 – 6.50

E and bath    7.40-8.45          7.35 – 8.15       7.20 – 8.00          6.50 – 7.45
S              8.45- 9.15            8.15 – 9.30       8.45 – 9.10          8.20 – 9.00
Didn’t Sleep    9.15-1.00 am   9.30 – 10.50         9.10 – 10.30       9.00 – 10.50
E   11.12,  3.35,  4.30          10.00, 2.40, 5.15    9.45, 2.30, 6.30       9.05, 10.30, 3.30, 5.30


I hope, it's ok to read 

[*Kimberly*]

The first thing I think you need to do is to come up with some sort of routine that will work best for you and your lo.  It looks like you lo is on about a 2.5 to 3 hour routine.  The thing to remember is that you do not have to be rigid and only feed your son at exactly the same time or exactly the same amount of time from one E to the next.  There is always wiggle room.  One day his naps may be a disaster or he may sleep in a little late and that will throw his routine off a little.  Hopefully once your lo has a routine he will begin to understand that there are times to eat and times to sleep and that will help him with his late evening sleeping problems.  Here is a possible routine.

8am Wake up and eat
9:30am Sleep
11am Eat
12:30pm Sleep
2pm Eat
3:30pm Sleep
5pm Eat
6pm Catnap (I would make sure this nap is short/ about 45min)
7:30pm/8pm Eat
8:30pm Bedtime

I hope that helps.

Kimberly

[nickaucher]

Relax- he's has only been in this world for 7 weeks. Seriously I wouldn't even worry too much about a schedule right now.  Is he crying from 9-11pm?  If not, then I would count my lucky stars.  Young babies seem to be hardwired for a later bedtime, that seems to get earlier as they get older.  You are both recoving from childbirth, yes him too.  And you are both learning how to breastfeed.  Over the next 1-2 months keep an eye out as a rountine will most likely develop and base his day around that.  The one tink posted is great, but don't stress too much, and it will fall into place.  Just think generally about EASY throughout the day and you will get there.

-Nicole

[Meggie]

Do you offer a feed when he wakes up at 9?  He might just be hungry, and needs a little top up before her sleeps at night.
I think your routine looks great for a 7 week old, however I am no expert.  The first three months are the hardest time to adjust for both you and your LO.  Hopefully you will get more suggestions for this.

[Alenka]

Thanks everybody for replays! Somehow, last two nights were great, it took my DS only 20 minutes to fell a sleep and he slept all night long (only walk up for feeding). 

I’m still trying to work on his routine to make it more consistent and I have some questions regarding this:

- Why dreamfeed should be not latter than 11pm? I go to sleep after 12, so it’s easier for me to feed him around this time saving an extra hour to sleep at night 
- Why catnap at 6pm should be short, not more than 45 minutes?
- My ds can sleep well in the morning (8 am nap) – up to 5 hours straight and probably more but he can’t sleep more than 4 hours at night. How can I change it?
- If I put him to bed at 7.00 pm but I’m going to breastfeed him several times at night, should I change his diaper when I feed him after 7? Right now I change the diaper when I feed him around 11.30 – 12.00 and he is very wet by 7.30 am
- Sometimes he wakes up after his nap earlier and he is a bit fussy. I assume that he might be hungry and feed him even though it was only 2 or 2.5 hours after the last feeding. But I’m not sure if he is hungry, may be he needs more sleep and he is fussy because he can’t go back to sleep easier? Are there any suggestions what to do in this case?

Thanks!

[*Mona*]

hi Alenka:)

how have you been?

to answer your Qs [a bit late, sorry]:

1. I do go to sleep around midnight too BUT we do the DF at 22:30. why? well, so not to interrupt dd's sleep more than it has to be.

Dream Feeding Too Late

"Janet called me because her son was waking up at 4:30 or 5 every morning. “But l’m doing a dream feed,’ she insisted. The problem was, she was feeding four month old Kevin between midnight and 1AM.  At his age andfor his size (he was 8 lb. at birth), he should have been sleeping at least 5, if not 6, hours during the night. But because Janet was unwittingly disrupting his sleep with a too late dream feed, he slept fitfully. After all, babies’ sleep patterns are affected just like ours would be if we are disturbed or overtired. If we’re kept up, we don’t sleep soundly and are more likely to toss and turn. Then to make matters worse, Janet fed him when he woke in the wee hours of the morning, which only reinforced his waking habit. (Remember: Waking up like Clockwork is a pattern; waking sporadically is hunger.) I suggested that she gradually move the dream feed to 10 or 10:30, but stop feeding him when he wakes (see more about how to do this in chapter 5, pages l98 ~ 199) Also, she was to give him a little more food during the day by adding an oz. to each of his daytime bottles."

taken from the secrets of the baby whisperer p119

2. catnap is meant to be short- to refresh the baby and give her enough strength to 'survive' until proper bedtime. if you allow your LO sleep too long in the evening, he won't be impressed when you put him down at bedtime and just won't go down for you.

3. don't change his diaper if it's not absolutely necessary. you might try one size bigger diaper to avoid the leaking and keep him comfy.

4. exactly- he's not necessairly hungry, he didn't get as much sleep as he needed, probably due to being overtired beforehand. you might try pat/shh to prolong his nap or maybe try putting him for his nap a bit earlier to avoid him getting overtired.

HTH,
Monika

[Alenka]

Hi Monika,

Thanks for the answers! We are getting better (I hope). For the last couple of days my DS decided to stay awake longer and last between feeding longer, so I moved him to 3.5 hours easy and I think it helped with his naps (he is 8 w.o. and around 12 lb.) 
We are still straggling with his nigh time. He wakes up often after I put him to sleep around 7-8 pm. but I usually just feed him or use a pacifier and he goes back to sleep.

Dreamfeed was never “dreem” for us because he usually woke up around 10-11pm and I just fed him. Except yesterday – yesterday he was sleeping all evening (may be because I dropped the catnap before the bath, don’t know, will try again tonight). So I tried to dreamfeed him at 11 but he couldn’t wake up. I changed his diaper, he was half awake but he didn’t eat much. I guess he was not so hungry, he ate only 2 hours ago at 9pm. After, he woke up twice in 2 hours (at 1 and at 3 am) for feeding. I’m confused. I know he can easy last for at least 4 hours without food. May be I shouldn’t have given him the dreamfeed?   

Also I have another question -  day naps, should they be not more than 2 hours? Sometimes he sleeps for 2 hours and has a hard time waking up for feeding. Should I let him sleep for another 15 minutes or so?

Thanks!

[*Mona*]

hi

good things are improving

about DF- it's never 'dream' for us too- my dd always wakes up either just before or when feeding her  but goes right back to sleep.
if you feel it may not be working for you, just don't do it. DF doesn't work for everyone. but the point of df is to keep it very low key so maybe don't change his diaper before? if he doesn't want to eat, don't force him. but I think you might try again and see how he replies- if he's hungry and eats well or not. if not, maybe it's not the best solution for you anyway.

and re naps- I think 15 or so minutes longer won't do him no harm. don't worry, if he's hungry, he will wake up 'on time'

HTH
Monika