Early waking has turned into chronic nightwaking!

[Leosmama]

I'm back....

For those of you who may have seen my earlier posts, my LO was habitually waking up between 4:30-5:00am.  Several of you felt that it was truly hunger, and that I should feed him when he woke at that time (he usually goes to bed around 6:30-7:00).  Well, I started doing that, but for the last week he's been waking earlier, anywhere from 2:50-4:00am.  Since I'm trying to wean from bf'ing, I decided a couple of nights ago to only offer him a sippy cup with a little milk in it, rather than getting him up to feed.  He'll take the milk, but then he absolutely cannot go back to sleep.  For the past two nights when he's woken up around 3am, he's up for 2 hrs!  Some of the time he's not crying at all, just up and talking and laughing.  But then he'll cry because he's frustrated that we're not taking him out of the crib.  I've had to resort to continually rubbing his back and singing to him until he FINALLY gets tired and falls back to sleep.  Then he wakes up an hour later for the day 

After doing gradual withdrawel successfully about 6 weeks ago, I realize that I've gotten back into the habit of rubbing his back and now when I stop, he gets upset.  Last night at bedtime I tried to not touch him as he fell asleep, and it took longer for him to fall asleep as a result (he was standing up and crying for about 20 minutes).  Then when he woke at 2:50, DH went in since I was concerned that maybe my presence is too stimulating for him.  He tried not giving him any milk at first, just patted him and verbally reassured him.  An hour later, he finally offered him some milk, which he drank.  Then he was wide awake, and DH decided to stay in the room but not pat or sing.  He cried hysterically of course, and finally, around 5:00am he got so tired he gave up and went back to sleep.

So, my big question is.....are we ready for wi/wo?  I'm not sure if we're ever going to get any further with gradual withdrawel.  And, we're leaving town in a week, to stay at my parents' for one week, where Leo will share a room with us (there's a crib in the room we stay in).  I really don't want to have these wee hour crying sessions with the rest of the family being woken up.

What should I do? 

p.s. for those of you not familiar with our schedule, here it is:

6:00 wakeup and nurse
7:00 breakfast
9:30 snack
11:00 lunch
12:00 nap (this can last anywhere from 1.5 to 2 hrs)
2:30-3:00 snack
5:00 dinner
6:00 nurse
7:00 bedtime/asleep

[aidenmc]

Hey there,

Just wanted to send some support. I hadn't heard from you and was wondering how things were going. Sounds as bad as Aiden who was up for 1.5 hours the other night then at 4:20 for the day the past 2 mornings - lovely! I hope to hear any new advice you get. Hang in there!

Becky

[Florencia]

I think that if you try wi/wo it will only be confusing for him cause in a week or so, you'll start doing "gradual withdrawal" again, being in the room with him. I'm at a loss here, don't know what else to suggest. He seems to have some type of discomfort, I don't know what it could be. I remember that some questions in your previous posts that you didn't answer such as his fluid intake and some other I can't remember well.

How's his teething going? is he taking any meds before going down or at his first waking in the night? that could also help you settle him easier.

Have you visited the pedi? has he had his ears/nose/throat checked? sometimes ear infections are silent and you only know they exist because the nights are awful.

I'm sorry I can't come up with more, I promise I'll think this thru and see if I can't think of something else. Many hugs and wishing you luck!

[Leosmama]

Hi Florencia,

Thanks for getting back to me.  He has not seemed to be teething much the past few days, nor does he seem to be in any type of pain.  He recently had a dr. appt. and no ear infection (he's only had one, and it was almost a year ago).  This morning he woke up at 4am (after going to sleep at 6:40 last night), and as I rubbed his back/sang to him, he was not falling asleep but not crying or fussing either.  In fact, he seemed totally happy and awake, babbling away.  And during the day he's been surprisingly happy and plays contentedly for long periods of time.  I genuinely believe that he may need less sleep than the "average" 14 month old.

He eats like a horse during the day, has upped his fluid intake so he's drinking plenty of water as well as milk with each meal.  He gets lots of physical activity; it's been mild here so I've been taking him to the park and really letting him go for it.

Now today, he did take a morning nap because of being awake since 4am.  I decided to take him out in the stroller so he could catnap, but he ended up sleeping for 1.5 hrs    I didn't wake him, because in all our previous experience if I EVER wake him from a nap, there's hell to pay.  So he slept from 8:15-9:45am.  Then I knew he would need a p.m. nap as well, or he'd never make it till bedtime.  It was very hard to get him down for that nap, but he finally fell asleep at 3:00pm and now it's an hour later and he's still asleep.  I think I will wake him by 4:30, but I'm telling you, he will be a super-cranky mess if and when I do.  And then it'll be next to impossible to get him down for bed tonight; I'm not expecting him to be asleep anytime before 8:00pm.

Basically, he needs to be awake for a minimum of 4.5-5.5 hrs before he's able to fall asleep.  I know he probably needs one long nap instead of two, but as long as he's waking so early in the mornings that just doesn't cut it.  Sometimes I think there are just too many hours in the day for him, and he'd do fine if there were only 22 hours instead of 24 

[Katet]

One thing that REALLY helped our sleep & early waking was when I moved ds#2 morning bf to after breakfast, maybe something you can do when you are away as change in environment can help make changes in routine easier.
I found when I bf on waking, he would expect it anytime from 4.30am if he woke... once when he woke at 4.30 & I got him back to sleep at 6am & he slept until 8am with no feed since 7pm (bedtime) I knew it was possible for him to go 7-7, so from that day on bf was after solids... can't remember how long it was "hard" for, but all in all it wasn't too bad.
Just a thought

[Leosmama]

Hi Kate,

Yes, I really would like to move the bf to after breakfast, and I actually think Leo won't have much of a problem with it.  I guess at this point it's more my issue, because I can't bear the thought of getting up immediately with him instead of semi-snoozing in the rocker while he nurses (and of course I'm always hoping in vain that he'll fall back asleep!)  I think your suggestion to try this while out of town is a good one; hopefully he'll be more receptive to it there.

Well last night there was definitely some pain going on.  After waking up happily from his nap at 4:20, he was in a great mood for the rest of the day/evening.  Had a nice bedtime winddown, and did toddler p/d (think this is ultimately better for us than wi/wo) for about 15 minutes, combined with gradually moving farther away from his crib.  He was asleep by 8:10.  Didn't hear a peep out of him until 3:15, when he woke with a loud cry.  I gave him teething tablets and had him lie back down so I could rub his back, but every couple of minutes he would start to cry again and sit up.  So I gave him some Motrin, because he was making his moaning, teething sounds.  Still tried rubbing his back and singing to him softly, but he'd sit up again after a few minutes and start crying.  Once the crying became worse and he wouldn't lie down at all, I went against all my best intentions and picked him up and held him in the rocking chair.  He finally calmed down, and I put him down and he went to sleep with me rubbing his back.  Oh, and btw, I had offered him some milk, and he only took a little; it was obvious that he wasn't really that hungry.

Then, this morning, he didn't want any of his breakfast    He always has at least some, if not all, of his food.  I thought he'd be especially hungry since he didn't have as much milk during the nightwaking, but he wasn't interested in eating at all!  He did end up having a decent lunch however.  Also, he had a normal bm this morning so he's not constipated or anything.

So who knows...maybe he's teething?  He's always been an agonizingly slow teether with his other teeth, and these molars seem to be doing a real number on him.  How much longer does he have to suffer? 

[Florencia]

Well if not teething he sure seems to be having some kind of pain/discomfort in the middle of the night. I'm sure he'll be much better once those molars are out. If the 2 nap approach worked well for you, then trust your incstincts and do what you feel can help Leo sleep better. It does sound like a good day for me all in all. The night waking was a disturbing one but he eventually went to sleep OK so my only guess is the teething here. Since he's feeding so well I don't think he's coming down with something but who knows? I hope things keep looking up nap related. Good sleepy vibes going your way!

[Katet]

sorry this is so pointed but not got lots of time & wanted to share some things I went through
1- ds#1 was still happily on 2 naps until I forced the issue at 20months as I wanted the transition over before ds#2 arrived... even at daycare they couldn't push him to 1 nap very often as at 9.30/10am & 2pmish he would stand at the cot room door & bang to go in. At home he was the same.
2- how they get to sleep at the begining of the night is the key how you deal with wakings is secondary & while it is best to be consistent, resettling is a skill that flows from learning to fall asleep
3- movement of teeth below the gums seems to be more painful for ds#2 than the actual teeth coming through & is the timing of nightwaking here rather than when the teeth pop.
HTH

[Leosmama]

Thanks - you guys have some really helpful things to say!

Tonight when Leo was taking his bath, he was looking up at me and laughing with his mouth wide open, and I'm pretty sure I saw a kind of puffy, raised place on his lower gum on the side.  And, he's been gnawing away at everything again today, so I'm feeling confident that he's experiencing some teething pain.  I gave him teething tabs plus motrin tonight at bedtime, and he settled down rather quickly.  Doing toddler p/d seems to be very effective for us, and is something we can continue to do while at my parents' next week.

OK, so I definitely should cut out the early a.m. bf'ing.  BUT, what do I do with him from the time he wakes until time to get up and start the day?  I can't stomach the thought of heading to the living room at 5am and turning on the lights (it's pitch dark here until about 7am these days).  I could try to put him back to sleep, but this has proved impossible 99% of the time he's woken after 4am.  And listening to him cry hysterically in his crib for an hour and a half is not acceptable to me or dh (and I'm sure the neighbors don't appreciate it - we live in an apt. bldg.)

Stacy - on the days he wakes super early and doesn't get back to sleep, we definitely do a morning nap.  Of course, it's then pretty hard to get him down for an afternoon nap, but we do whatever we have to to get one in there.  I'm really trying to make sure he's never awake for more than 5.5-6 hrs, tops.  So if he doesn't nap well then he gets a super-early bedtime.  The thing that's tripping us up is when he has a nightwaking where he's up for about 2 hours; it's really hard to make up for that during the day.

I genuinely believe that Leo is ready to have one long nap a day, but these nightwakings/early mornings are getting in the way.  On the rare times he's had a good night and slept till a reasonable hour, he does great with one 2-hr nap in the middle of the day, and goes down super-easily at night.  It seems to me that if I could get him to sleep later (and not wake for 2 hours in the night!) I could get him onto a very consistent routine.  But it's so hard to keep each day the same when the mornings are so different!  Very frustrating...

[Katet]

Jennifer, Whe I did it I set a goal of no bf before say 6am & then get him up (rather than cry) & move to another place that is comfy & do quiet things eg bring him to our bed & cuddle, sit & read stories sing songs etc (hopeful he would go back to sleep, but not pushing the issue (KWIM) & then we would have an earlier breakfast & then bf, things gradually settled down - the first couple of days were hard, but by day 3 it was better.
If you can get your dh to get up with him  for 2-3 days & sit & read stories, quiet play, all the better

[binxyboo]

Sorry to see things are stll not so good. Hugs xx