Needing bedtime help with 16.5 month old please!!

[kirsty_167]

HI

My son Jakob was up until 3 weeks ago,easy to put to bed.We have had ups and downs due to teething but managed to get back on track.

Now the problem is he wont lie down for bed.He gets straight up as soon as i leave the room and insists on playing in his cot.This can go on for over an hour.Sometimes he then cries,sometimes he goes to sleep. Im not sure if this is a problem but im very aware that when he goes to sleep late we get night wakings or early wake ups.

So bedtime goes like this; I put him down at 7-7.30 depending on how his pm nap went. I no sooner tuck him in and he is out again.He laughs madly at me as he does it!! GRRR!!

Okay,no major i first thought i just forget about the covers, which is fine it is summer supposedly her in NZ but he gets straight up then too.Tonight i spent 45 mins laying him back down every time he got up.I actually thought i had ,after 75 lay downs, won the battle but NO! Just as his breathing gets slow and steady and he relaxes,this major surge happens and he is full of life ready to start all over again. I did another 20 lay downs,laying him down straight away when he got up.He got really angry and seemed to drain himself to the point of sleep BUT AGAIN he recouped and started it all over again!!!!! Oh how id love his energy!!!

Despite my resolve to deal with this,
Bad me,I gave up.I just couldnt do it anymore tonight My back hurt from leaning over the cot so much and im dead tired and didnt want to get upset at him.So i left him to it and came straight here to vent and seek help.

My questions are
* When i put him down at night should i just leave him be? Is it really a problem if he plays before he sleeps or am i creating a problem by trying to make him simply lay down and go to sleep??

* If i need to teach him that bedtime means to lay down NOT get up then what on earth do i do and how do i not give up after soooo many lay downs??

I would love some advice so if anyone can help that would be fantastic

Thank you
Kirstyxxx

[Katet]

My rule of thumb is if he chooses to stand up & play, after I leave that is up to him. I go back if he is upset, but leave him to it. I do think you are making life hard for yourself (& a game for him) making him lie down. If he is playing then it sounds like he feels himself he isn't ready for sleeping, esp if he goes to sleep independantly himself.

When you say "how the pm nap went"... is he still on 2 naps? as if he is still on 2 naps sounds like time to move to 1 nap... other than that I know with my 18mo we play chasings & do about 20mins of physical stuff between dinner & bath to tire him out, if we don't he is harder to settle at bed time.
Another thing I have found in recent weeks is we need a longer story time for him to wind down before going into bed (about 10mins) otherwise he plays/talks for much longer, somehow relaxing on Mummy's lap during stories (complete with encouraging yawns) helps him fall asleep better.

Also look at how much sleep he has in 24 hours - 13.5 is about right for his age, so if you are trying to get him to have more than that then he probably doesn't need it KWIM

Hope that helps

[Erin M]

Just wanted to reinforce what Kate said about the standing and playing - as long as he's not upset, let him stand and play.  I find that my dd really needs the time to wind down in her crib before going to sleep at nighttime and for naps.  I kind of think of it like how I go to bed -- personally I don't climb into bed and go right to sleep (well these days I do, but I generally prefer not to) -- I read a book, watch TV, chat with dh -- I think she's doing the same thing.  If you're worried about overtiredness, you can always put him down a bit earlier or maybe it's time to transition to one nap. 

[Florencia]

Can't really add much to Kate and Erin's wonderful advice. I think it's time to do some tweaking in your routines cause it looks like Jakob isn't tired enough to go to sleep. If he's still taking 2 naps it might very well be that he's oversleeping during daytime and hence needing extra awake time by the time he goes down. IF you notice he's spending too much time playing around, perhaps you should try a slightly later bedtime (say 30 mins more) and see if he'll be tired then to go to sleep without much fuss. Longer winddowns and extra stories also help lo's relax and go to sleep easier.

HTH and good luck. keep us posted!

[kirsty_167]

HI

Thank you for the replies.Jakob is already down to one nap a day,i say PM nap out of habit sorry.
I think i need to look at his wind down time as that has gone a bit pear shaped.He used to have his bottle and then a cuddle then bed but now he refuses to sit after his bottle and gets up and plays.I try to keep his activities quiet but he isnt really a quiet type of kid IYGWIM? Even so i would have thought that this final burst of energy would wear him out but not so at the moment.
I will put the story time back in there before i put him down and see how we go.

Actually im now wishing he would play for a bit before sleeping as the last two nights have been really bad.
He woke last night hysterical and was impossible to settle for nearly an hour.Maybe nightmares Im not sure.Then tonight he screamed  hysterically again straight away after being put and it took 1 1/2 hours to settle.............Im lost whats going on but i guess i will have to post a new topic if it continues.
Anyway if he goes back to simply playing at bedtime I now vow never to worry or complain again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for your help any tips on the screaming at being put down??  He is teething and he had pain meds.
Thanks

Kirsten

[*Natasha*]

Kirsten we have just gone through this a month ago with my DD this a LO who has generally has been a dream to put down for naps and bedtime. We did WI/WO for a week to overcome this then a few days later i took her to the doctor as she wasn't very happy and found out she had an ear infection and then not long after that cut 2 teeth.
Have you ruled out anything medical? Is he ok to put down at naptime?

[kirsty_167]

Hi

I am going to take Jakob to the doctor this afternoon to rule out ears.He is teething but generally with that when he wakes he settles after a cuddle and some teething gel.At the moment i am at a loss as this is very out of character.he has woken every night for 3 weeks and im sooooo tired.Im running on empty as i dont get a chance to catch up on lost sleep as i work.

WI/WO has worked in the past but i have tried it this time and i could spend all night doing it and he would still wake and scream the minute i leave.

Im soooo lost

Thanks for replying to my posting

Kirsty

[*Natasha*]

HUGS Keep us posted how it all goes

[Katet]

Kirsty, I've never done a bedtime bottle, but I do remember one of my gf son's, (now 8yo) having problems settling her ds at night around the 18mo mark & someone suggesting that she stop giving the bottle at bedtime as the milk was potentially hyping her ds up... she stopped it & changed the bedtime routine & hey presto things changed in 2 days.
I certainly know that bedtimes actually improved (after a small hicup) with both my boys when the bedtime bf was stopped & Liam was 17mo when we stopped & actually the last month before we stopped night time was a right pain & looking back I think the feed was part of the problem he choose to stop by self weaning - smart boy, as bedtime has been mostly great since (even with eye teeth erupting).

[kirsty_167]

Thank kate!!

Funny i had just decided to drop the last bottle over the xmas holidays while Jakob was off daycare .I will do that and see how we go. What changes did you make when you dropped the last feed? Did you add a snack or anything? I just wonder what i do to my routine to drop the bottle

My routine now is

dinner 5pm
bath 5.45/6pm
wee snack maybe a cracker or something light
bottle 6.30 
bed 7.15 (tends to range between 7-7.30pm depending on what time he woke from his sleep at daycare)

Like i said earlier Jakob is now resisting bedtime altogether even though he is tired! he has screamed blue murder when put down the last 2 nights.I went out tonight and let his dad sort it as I really needed some time out to recoup!!!! He didnt sleep until nearly 8.30pm!!! He screamed for 15 mins and his dad when in and out and eventually he went quiet but was just sitting in his cot looking at his book. He crashed after that.

It is so hard when you just dont know what else to do.Everywhere i go the babies seem to be great sleepers and im stuck going through sleep issues yet again.............where have i gone wrong?? Im feeling so blue right now.i have tried my best and i still dont have a great sleeper.Somehow i struggle on but i long for a good night sleep

sorry for ranting.............im glad ive got BW or id be nutty by now!!!

Kirstyx

[Florencia]

Hey Kirsty, don't give up. I'm sure you're done with this but teething makes things worst. I can guarantee you that he'll be sleeping great once he stops being in pain. Even if he wasn't a bad teether in the past, the molars are THE WORST for sleeping and attitude in general.

If you're not moving any step forward with wi/wo perhaps you should try gradual withdrawal, at least while this crisis last, so you can get some sleep (and so does Jakob). I had a rough teething period when Manolo was exactly Jakob's age and it didn't get better until i moved to his room. Aparently, the pain makes them clingy and have sep. anxiety, also more likely to get bugs so be sure to check ears and throat every once in a while because every teething period is almost ALWAYS followed by a nasty cold or ear infection. But i can guarantee you that this will pass, just pick a method, stay consistant and try and get some rest whenever you can (even if you have to be late at work or call sick one day just to regain strenght!).

MANY KISSES AND HUGS!!!

[Katet]

Kirsty, many things mess up sleeping, right now Liam has been very difficult to get to bed for naps & bedtime  & it has involved crying & me staying in the room... this after a good period of a few stories & off to sleep he went... he is teething his eye teeth & also some disruptions for the party season & late nights... so it happens to us all. The key is to be consistent & supportive & when things settle down you can work towards the old routine. It used to frustrate me so much (point of tears) when it happened with Aiden, but with Liam I am frustrated, but able to say to dh... looks like I need to chill out on the bed in Liams room until he falls asleep (he just needs me to be there in the room, but not involved... 2x in the last week I too have fallen asleep  )

Can I say most people I know who seem to have "good sleepers" seem to get a BIG blip at some stage... we have friends who had a great sleeper until he moved to a bed & the CC they used for other problems didn't work then & now they have a 3yo who comes into their bed every night... I had a bad sleeper with Aiden for more than 2 years & now apart from the odd little blip (excitement of Christmas at the moment) he is really good & I put that down to me meeting him with his sleep needs, rather than having set expectations that he had to fit into & controlling them with a "it happens this way or else" attitude KWIM

I didn't introduce anything extra when I dropped bedtime feeds, but we have always had dinner at 6pm & so they both seemed to cope going through until breakfast, although for the first week I think Liam wanted it at 6.30am, but it moved back to 7.15/30 pretty easily in time. Do what you thing works best is my motto.

[kirsty_167]

Thank you so much Kate and Florencia.......i appreciate your kind words and advice.

Consistency i know is the key.I think what i am struggling with is that i cant find anything that works to be consistent with IYGWIM? Last night i calmed him and sat by his cot on the floor.The door was closed and i wasnt touching him and he did eventually fall asleep.I will do this from now on until we pass this stage,if of course it works next time.Jakob seems to change his mind often at this stage to what he wants so we will see.I am not sticking to what iw ant but am doing what he needs and i pray this will ease off and become better again.

I am dropping his bottle this weekend as i figure may as well do it now.I will see if this helps or not when it comes to bedtime.

I will keep you posted and thaks again for your help.

Kirstyxx