Please! - need help with early riser and naps

[KellyC]

I've just caught up with the end of this post.

Thanks for being so kind Stacy    I suspect the reason we differ on the early milk issue is that we have very different babies (can I still call Zander a baby?) so it really is a case of finding what works for your own LO.  I feel a bit like you all think I'm trying to convince you use this plan but I'm really just explaining what worked for Zander - and I know how hard the 2 to 1 transition is which is why I've hung around on that thread for so many months since we made it and perhaps why I seem to be repeating the same thing over and over as new mums move onto the thread.  Just to clarify though Deborah, I have said that the milk isn't meant to be a long term solution, it's to make your LO feel satisfied (even if they weren't necessarily hungry) so they either go back to sleep or are happy to stay in their cot by themselves until wake-up time, so you're reinforcing that they don't get out of bed until that set wake-up time.  Some LOs are happy to do this without the milk but I still think it's best to have given the milk earlier because without it they may get hungry at close to 7 but if they've had it they may fall back to sleep as late as that and you're showing them that they should go back to sleep if they wake too early.  I only kept the milk up until Zander was consistently going back to sleep in the mornings then I got rid of it over a few days by watering it down.  Ever since there have probably only been a couple of occasions when he's woken early and not gone back to sleep.  I don't think I'll ever mention this again, probably pregnancy hormones but I feel a little upset over it  ..... 

K x

[KellyC]

I'd quite like you to hop on a plane actually .... so yes I'm very sad and very upset - see you soon 

[debo620]

oh Kelly, don't be sad or upset......I think we all just come to this board looking for possible solutions and we have to take everybody's advice and experience and adapt it to our own child.  I mean my goodness, you are just sharing your experiences out of care and concern for others, and because we are asking!!  totally value and respect you, it is so great that you have kept up with that other 2-1 thread--there are so many moms on there!!

and wow Stacy, I see your replies to peoples threads all over the place, and I ALWAYS read them and think wow, she is so sensible with great advice. thankyou so much.

[KellyC]

Ah, thanks Deborah.  I'm off to bed myself now - the hormones are definitely playing up, I've just been sitting and looking at Zander's little shoes and crying, I think my protective mummy instincts are increasing as my belly grows!

K x

[PeepersMom]

Kelly, I read this thread, the 2-1 thread, ALL of the threads and I just want to say as many times as I have read your story I think you tell it spot on correctly and at the most correct times.  The only things is - wouldn't it be wonderful if it worked so beautifully for all babies?  I have never had the nerve to try it w/PJ.  I think we were on the 2-1 together at one point and you said you did this and I was just in awe of you and Zander. 

Don't stop telling your story.  It will help and has helped others. That is what is so great about the boards!

I am grateful for you, Stacey, Deb, EVERYONE.  I need to hear everybodies experiences so that I can make whatever works for PJ work.  It shocks me when I actually have some input around here, but even I do once in a great while.

I didn't know you had a bun in the oven!  Congrats!  Baby Zanders gonna be a big bro!

Meg

[Zaiby]

I am so sorry I started this whole milk thing..I was just seriously at a loss and any advice is welcome.  I certainly know that all lo's are different...sorry Kelly, please don't feel bad..I have learnt so much from your posts and Stacy's as well as others..I'm just very confused at the moment and as Stacy pointed out - have tried all sorts of things...
Please don't feel bad...I welcome your experience...

I have kept Riyan in his crib for as long as he will tolerate - not to ideal wake up time - but until he starts fussing..should I keep him in longer?  Does that really work?  My problem is that if he wakes at 5 or 5:30 and I leave him til 7, he's usually ready for his nap at 8:30 ish...what do I do then? since he's only been out his crib for 1.5 hrs?

See, it's me - not you lol!

[PeepersMom]

Zaiby, well, leaving them in the crib till ideal wake up time is a very popular theroy taught by MANY sleep experts.  I have been leaving PJ in his crib in the morning no matter if he wakes up at 5 am or 6:45am since he was 6 months old!!!  If he is fussing (not screaming at length) he stays in the crib.  He usually just plays, mostly b/c I think he is used to it.  On the very early wakings he will fall back to sleep just like it is a night waking.  He might wake up at 5 am and play for an hour ::)and the fall back to sleep for 1-2 hours.

Does it work?  well it hasn't taught him to sleep till 7 by any means.  He wakes anywhere from 6am  to 8:30am.  It varies widely day to day.  But he is usually pleasantly in the crib so I don't get him.  That is probably the only thing it has taught him.  I won't go in right away to get him.

I didn't read all 12 pages, but I have heard that the longer you stretch their A time before first nap the later they will sleep the next day.  I think that you can't expect this change over night, but if you stretch him a little longer than you think he can do - like even just 30 min more - for a week you might get some success.

I am really bad w/being consistent.  TRUST ME probably Stacey can vouch for me LOL, but I have to say consistency is key and it really helps YOUR mental state.  At least YOU know what to expect.

Good luck

Meg

[Zaiby]

Thanks for the info Meg..

About the stretching the am A time - If I do that, should I also limit this nap? So I can get another PM nap in - otherwise we're looking at one long afternoon as Riyan does not go down for catnaps well in the pm - or it might be too late in the pm..

You are so right - I truly need consistantcy because every day is different - I was just going on A times..
But I should do set nap/bedtimes regardless of tired or not?

Let's see how long he'l stay in his crib tomorrow - it's Saturday so we can work on it...

Thanks
Z

[PeepersMom]

Well, how's this for an answer.  Sometimes.  HA

50% of the time stretching A time by 15-30 min extended naps well and helped early rising.  50% of the time setting a schedule (out of crib 7am,first nap 9am, second 1pm, bedtime 7pm) and sticking to it no matter how long the sleeps were helped.

Most of the time when PJ was mixing things up the easiest thing for ME was to stick him on a schedule.  Then once things started to settle, I eased up a bit and looked at his cues and amount of awake time. 

I don't really know if that helped or not, but for us nothing helped 100% of the time either b/c it didn't work for ME or for PJ.  For example he would probalby easily still take 2 nice naps if I wanted him to have 4 hours of awake time between naps and 5 before bed but I don't want that.  Bed time would be too late.  So I now am doing a 5 hours of awake time pre nap and pre bed.  but also I won't put him down for a nap before 1130 am or after 1230 pm to keep him on the 7/730pm bedtime routine.

I personally won't wake him from any nap because he tends to take short naps, not long ones.  So that isn't the issue for us.

I hope something I said can help a little.

Meg

[Zaiby]

ok so Stacy - when would am catnap be then?
say he wakes at 5:30 and I keep him in there til 7, but he hasn't slept...still 3/3.5 hrs later, or set time of say 9?  And then should I count from time he actually sleeps (like say he fell asleep at 9:15 wake at 9:45) or it's 9-9:30 and if hasn't slept - then?

The early bedtime could be making him wake early - he has always had early bedtimes - 8 or 8:30 are very rare and only if he's had super good naps...

So I'll give it as shot tomorrow and let you know...I'm off to bed now myself..lol it's way past my bedtime and it's only 10 lol...
thanks!

[KellyC]

Thanks Meg 

I think Stacy's plan sounds great too, it's exactly what we did.

When you're keeping him in his room prior to wake-up time I'd also make sure there's no natural light coming in which will signal to him that it's daytime.  Zander has a night light so he can play with his toys and look at the pictures on the wall (I put up big photos of us all and our pets!) but as far as he can tell it's still the middle of the night.

I would set a time for your am nap - say 9 or 9.30 depending what you think will work best, but if he's been up early and seems tired and you're not sure what to do then split the difference!  If you're aiming for 9 and you think he's starting to need his nap at 8.30 then go for 8.45.  That's what I'd do anyway.

Have fun 

Kelly x

[PeepersMom]

Z- see this is why I leave him in the crib.  this morning I heard him quietly chatting starting at 6:08 am.  No big woop.  He was back to sleep by 6:55. 

Now my problem is I don't really get what we are doing w/this new sleep routine he seems to be working on.  Either he is really sick, or-- I don't know what!  it is 8:45am and he is still sleeping.

I know in the past the only reason he really has had monster sleep is due to teething and he is cutting molars and incisors BUT this is crazy.  both DH and I are up and just waiting for him to stir!

Watch next week I wil be on line crying due to his early wake ups and poor naps.

Meg

[Zaiby]

Ok so first day...

It was a not so good night - he woke up a couple of times for about 5 minutes after 2hrs asleep but settled back down...he was pretty restless I think all night, then he woke up at 4:30 - I waited for a resettle - but after 15  minutes decided to go in - he was wet, so I changed him, gave him a cup of milk and he slept til 6:15..kept him in there til 7 as he was content - just babbling...

So now -
Nap 1 9:30? for 30 min
Nap 2?  Keep in mind he can go for awhile and I'ld like to keep 7:30 bedtime but still get 2hrs  
How to do that???


Thanks ladies - your support and help means alot and I hope we can solve this..

Z

[Zaiby]

Nap 1 - in bed 9:20 asleep 9:30---

I'll wake at 10..

So Stacy - you are saying put him back down at 12:30?  After 2.5 hrs?  I don't think he'll go for that...He can easliy do way more and I'm afraid he'll be in there for a long time before actual sleep?

 

[Zaiby]

Ok - Im willing to try anything

Will keep pushing back meals as well...

Today bfast was 7:30 ish...
Lunch will be 11:30 ish as he didn't have a snack..

Nap we'll try at 1..see how he does..last couple of days he's been napping 2hrs after 4hrs A time on 30/40 min catnaps...so...who knows? 

Thanks - I'll keep you posted!!