Please! - need help with early riser and naps

[debo620]

well---I did put him down at 12:40-----he fell asleep at 12:55, but woke at 1:55 crying, I couldn't get him back to sleep. Man our day is really a mess---we'll have to go for a walk this afternoon and let him sleep for 20min or so---maybe at 4 or 4:30. 

[Zaiby]

Deb - if he doesn't take a pm catnap, I'ld say just try bedtime earlier maybe 6 or 6:30?  At least he'll catch up a little?

This is all messed up I know..

I let Riyan sleep 1hr 20 minutes this am and pm he slept 1hr 20min as well - so total 2:40 - not bad I guess.
I may do this for a couple of days...see how he does and then try again with this short am long pm thing
I just can't seem to get the timings right for that though sigh..
Maybe the new year will bring new resolve...

Z

[debo620]

Zaiby, I wish I could do a 6pm bedtime and have him sleep until 6am the next day> but I have accepted that he really only wants/needs to sleep like 10.5 -10.75hrs at night. so I am always leary of putting him down any earlier then 6:45pm. I feel like today was so crazy-----I usuallly only have him down for his second nap at 2pm---and today he was already awake by 2pm
wow, thats great you got two 1hr 20min naps, it's nice to feel like he got kind of caught up on sleep. I say shoot for a 7pm bedtime and maybe he'll sleep well tonight.
talk to you later

[debo620]

ok Stacy, what do I do if he wakes tommorow at 5am?
I understand what you are saying about maybe trying 30min am nap----but really when he wakes at 5am or 5:30am----I just don't think it will work. I really think that we are heading the overtired way and would like him to have a couple of days of catch up as well-----I just never really know when to put him down for that am nap so that I can get a decent nap. I really wish he would take two decent length naps.
In one way, I think that he would have probably gone done earlier this am---but by going by the 5am wake-up (even though he didn't get out of crib until 6:15) is that reinforcing the wake-up? I have noticed that alot of people offer that 30min am nap--like 2.5hrs after waking---that would make it like 7:30 or 8am here---and his second nap at like 11---that sounds crazy.

I think tommorow if he wakes at 5am---I am not putting him down until 9am, he probably will be overtired and only sleep 40min but then I will offer another nap at 1. by offering that nap at 8:30 today and him only sleeping 40min----it really pushed the day forward and left me in a real pickle.....maybe I should set that morning nap at a certain time rather then awake time---since his wake-up time is just all over the map from 5am-6am.

sorry for rambling on, off to take Noah for a walk----maybe he'll sleep 15min, tommorow is a new day.....if I just could come up with a plan---I feel like he is napping at different times every day and all it is doing is messing him up.

thanks, I'm so frusrated.

[debo620]

ok, thanks Stacy,
the second routine is kind of what I tried today but instead it was like this:
wake 5
possibly getting tired by 8:15--but was still playing a bit.
nap 8:30-9:10----went right to sleep and woke happy
nap 12:40-asleep by 12:55-slept til 1:55, woke crying,---was obviously hoping for at least 1hr 30min
cat nap in stroller--dh took him and said he slept from 4:20-4:50-----probably too long but I forgot to suggest 15min nap only, now this catnap will probably just cause another early morning.
asleep by 7pm
I know what you are saying about a 4hr awake time in the morning...but I thought that maybe since he spends 1hr of that quietly talking in his crib, that this wouldn't be quite as tiring/stimulating. Definately if he spent 4hrs crawling and climbing over everything...it would be way too much.

I am always concerned about a early bedtime, I've done 15min earlier with no ill effect on the morning, but have never done more then that.

I'll just go by his cues in the morning (hopefully he shows some) and see how he does. heres hoping for a 5:30 or later wake-up. I'll aim for that 2nd routine I think.

[Zaiby]

Deb, I know what you mean about being concerned about early bedtimes and therefore even earlier wakings - for as long as I can remember, my lo only sleeps 10/10.5 at most with an occasional 11hr thrown in..
But, I still do it only because he seems so tired and does go to sleep straight away - at least we avoid the night wakings this way..he does get up earlier though so it doesn't help him with sleeping longer...

So yesterday:
6:10 wake (after about 40min up at 3ish)
8:45 - 10:05 nap
2:00-3:20 nap
7:30 bed (asleep 7:45)

Today
5:20 awake (I think - that is when I heard him)
8:30 nap (he was so tired - went to sleep right away)

I think I'll let him go again for 1hr 20/30 minutes if he'll do it and again at 2 for the same amount of time.  I really think he needs to catch up.  Maybe soon we'll be able to tackle the 2-1 transition again - some people have told me that at 15months he should be able to have only one nap with longer awake times - but I don't think he's ready - some lo's just aren't I guess until maybe 18 months?
He does 3hrs A time in the morning, 4hrs between naps (ofcourse based on length of nap) and 4hrs till bedtime -
Should he be doing more A times?  Maybe that's why he wakes up early?
I don't know..

Hope everyone had a good New Year!!!

[debo620]

well Noah was up at 4:30 this morning---playing and talking until about 6 when he started to fuss---probably hungry---I gave him 5oz--but he didn't go back to sleep, got up at 6:30am for breakfast and such. I will see how he does this morning, might have to nap at 8:00 he seems to be in a good mood right now.

I was contemplating going for a walk and maybe he would sleep from 7:30-8 and then take another nap at like 10----but really even if he sleeps until 11:30-----he'll need another nap this afternoon and it would be hard to fit in.

if he naps at 8:30--maybe he'll sleep till 10---which would be perfect for this pm
if he only naps 8:30-9:10, i will go for a walk and let him catnap before lunch and the another nap at 2.

things are really messed up and I prefer no late afternoon catnap.

[Zaiby]

hugs Deb - I can hear your frustration - I'm right there with you...
I so know how you feel.

I keep thinking it will get better one day - it has to right?

Keep us posted - we can all figure it out together...

I'm hoping for a 10 wake up as well and nap at 2 again...

Z

[debo620]

well, I ended up with a nap from 8--9:10am, this should allow for about 4hrs A time----so like nap at 1pm---hopefully til 2:20/2:30, I'll aim for slightly ealier to bed, like asleep by 6:45pm

[Zaiby]

yesterday was weird - part of which was my fault I guess..

He took a 1hr 20 minute nap in the morning and then was ready for his 2nd nap at around 1:30/45 (having woken up at 9:45 from morning nap)..
So anyway - he fell asleep right away and half way through I thought I'd lay down for half an hour..well I must have fell asleep and woke up at 4 and lo was still sleeping! OOps - so I immediately got him up..
He slept 2hr 15 minutes after 1hr 20 in the am...
So I put him down at 8 and he fell asleep right away..
But - woke up just before 5...I left him as he was just moaning, even tried a couple oz of milk but he just lay there til 6:15 moaning of and on so I got him up..

Didn't even sleep a full 9 hrs - too much nap (I thought he was catching up)?  Too late bedtime?  Should I have put him down at 7:30?
What to do today??
Boy this is so frustrating..

[debo620]

Hi Zaiby, I think stick with the plan of two mid size naps and bed at 7pm

we had our first night waking last night in a long time, he woke at 2:15am talking, soon escalated to a cry. he is also teething, with  bottom teeth coming at the same time. I gave tylenol, but all in all I feel the waking was probably due to overtired---or at least that didn't help. he was restless the whole time and crying off and on with me trying to sooth in the crib when necessary. anyway, he finally settled to sleep at 3:45---and we all slept until 7am---so of course naps are thrown off again today. I think I will opt for a 30min nap at 10 and longer nap at 1pm or so and bed at 7.   I think that overall the timing bewteen the last nap and bedtime cant be too little or too much---or else we have the early waking.

talk to you later, hope all goes well

[debo620]

ok, I need help again, I thought I had it all figured out but....
yesterday:
awake in night so
7am wake
10:30-11:00 30min sleep
1:35-3:05 sleep woke part way through with a cry out but ummediately back to sleep
7pm bed

today:
wake 6:05 
sleep 9:20-10
nap attempt 1:25pm
Not really showing any tired signs. fussed a bit and then cried a come get me cry, played a bit in his room and tried again in 10min, no protest this time , asleep by 1:45pm---woke crying at 2:25pm?? no luck getting him back to sleep. I know this wasn't a long enough nap to carry him through to bedtime. No where in any of this was there a yawn, a eye rub or anything so I really I am not sure if he was undertired, overtired or what?? I have done 4hr A times on 40min naps and tired cued are present by then but still only sleeps 40min. Maybe I should have had in bed at the 3hr 15min mark but he was still playing happy??

Now I think, that since he slept 11hrs last night, I should have done 30min am nap-
so maybe
6 wake
nap 9:30-10
nap 1-2:30??

It seems as though, no matter the combination of night and day sleep he is averaging about 12.5hrs total-----
it seems as though when he actually gets a good night sleep 11hrs, I really cant figure out the naps. I have tried more A time on a 40min nap and he still only sleeps 40min

the other day he had 10.15min hrs night sleep and a 40min am nap, 3hr 30minA time and then 1hr 40min pm nap---but that was on less night sleep.

[debo620]

ok, if I have a 6am wake tommorow, I will aim again for 40min am nap but then have in bed by 3hr 15min and hopefully asleep by 3hr 20min for pm nap. hes definately seeming not well rested this afternoon so maybe overtired for pm nap---but I just don't understand the lack of fussiness or tired cues before nap.??

[debo620]

yah the 30min am nap worked yesterday b/c he was up at 7am (only b/c he was awake in the night for 1.5hrs-aah)

I think I stick with a 40min am nap for now and try less A time---like aim for in bed by 3hrs 20min for 2nd nap. really, I feel I have to eliminate this option before trying something else. Most mornings I would say he is up by 5:45 at the latest.

[debo620]

ok thanks Stacy, we went for a walk so he had some rest/no sleep before supper---he was actaully quite pleasant/and not overtired at all on that 40min pm nap.my biggest concern with doing a 30min am nap would be the long stretch to bedtime but I am willing to try it.--I'll see if he gets a good night sleep tonight and then decide.

ie.wake 5:45/6
nap 9:30-10
nap 12:30-2?
awake 2-7? seems like a long time but I guess he is getting older.

thanks again, I'll let you know how it goes