My 4.5 mth old wakes at night..and stays awake. At what point do you assist?

[weatherlyn]

 My 4.5 mth old DS has recently started rolling, and wakes more frequently during the night. I have used shush pat and pu pd in the past to wean from paci with success, so he goes down indep. But lately, he wakes at night, and i cant get him back down, not even after a feed. He sleeps on his tummy, and when i put him down, he doesnt cry, but starts rolling, and cooing and talking..basically playing. He isnt upset, so accord to BW rules, i cant pick him up because he doesnt need comforting, and shush pat doesnt settle. So i get back into bed and leave him to it, but trouble is he doesnt settle, eventually after 30 mins, he will start crying, at which point he is over tired and over stimulated. Should i be picking him up and trying to get him a little drowsy and then put him down? is that allowed or is that the road to AP? At what point  am i allowed to intervene and help him get to sleep? it just seems like he has no control over his body, and needs a little help, but to what point? if anyone else has had the same prob i would love to hear from you.

[Colin Macs Mom]

Those wakings are developmental for sure, with the rolling. The rolling milestone almost always really affects sleep unfortunately.    The best way to combat those wakings is to make sure that LO gets all the time he wants during the day to practice. That way he will get the urge out of his system and master the skill faster.

In the meantime, definitely leave him be as long as he's not crying. It's annoying I know, but like you said you don't want to start AP.

[weatherlyn]

Thanks for the quick reply, will just have to buy ear plugs! Is it a giant leap from them learning to going down with shush pat and pu pd, to when they can play for half and hour like that, and then eventually  manage to fall asleep on their own ? is it something that usually happens quite quickly, or is it more something that comes with age? or temperament? do some babies just need more assistance than others? i dont want to start AP but i also dont want to not help him when he needs a little bit extra now and then. But it is so hard to know where your job starts and theirs begins, and at what point to intervene......

[Colin Macs Mom]

You're right, it really is hard to know when it's our job and whne it's theirs. The key is really know your LO's cries, and to never rush in.

It really is a huge leap for them to learn to put themselves to sleep.    How quickly they do it depends on the LO and also temperment - spirited and touchy often take longer than most. Some do need more help and that's ok.

[weatherlyn]

Luca is spirited, like your Colin, so i am expecting it to take a little longer, because they are easily frustrated. Last night he woke at four (i had already fed him at 2 i dont DF) and i left him to it for a bit, but eventually he started sounding really antsy(the prob is he never really cries not even when cry so you have to interpret the moans), and he was in the corner, so i moved him he really started to cry so picked up, and got a huge burp for my efforts so was a bit of indigestion too, put him back in, went back to his moaning and turning, and lo and behold, 10 mins later he was asleep. So proud, he kept on waking sparodically thereafter until 7 am wakeup, but each time he put himself back to sleep. Lets hope it lasts and i read the moans right!!

[Colin Macs Mom]

Good for you    You're already doing very well in accepting that it will probably take longer with Luca. That can be the hardest part, being patient and not getting frustrated.

[weatherlyn]

last night was rubbish. He woke at 11pm because he had made a poo, which he never does anymore at night, the sad thing was he was about to just go back to sleep, but i had to change the darn thing... and after that he was awake awake awake. put him in, would do shush pat  in cot until he had settled a fair bit (am i allowed to do that?) put myself back into bed, sure enough he starts rolling playing, talking, after half and hour eventually crying, pick him up until calm.. and then the whole darn thing started again, until eventually two hours later he was hungry i fed him, still not sleepy, put the dreamland cd on, back in cot where he eventually zoned out and fell asleep at 2.15. I am not rocking to sleep, he doesnt want to stay in my arms, but am i holding too long? not ever more than 3 mins. i just want to be sure that i am doing it right and not doing anything that can lead to ap... sometimes when he is really energetic and shouting and rolling, i do lose my patience and pick him up in an attempt to just try and get some of that energy out and to stop those legs moving.....

[weatherlyn]

i was just reading the BW book, and Tracy says about the six month olds and pu pd : " once he starts flailing around, he has no skills to calm himself. He needs your help. Holding him firmly, but gently (maybe putting weight of forearms along his body) might help him settle". Now i am  confused. If he wakes crying and once i calm him,  he starts rolling and is agitated am i supposed to leave him to it, or am i supposed to block his body and shush pat? Cause tracy says that at this age when they dont have control over their physical bodies they cant self settle. Please can someone clarify this? Are Lucas nightwakings lasting so long because i am expecting him to settle himself and he cant control his body?  Am i misinterpreting an inalbility to control his body as playing? if i intervened would they be shorter or is that ap? Colin Mac mom, sorry if i am doing your head in.......

[Colin Macs Mom]

I think you're doing great      He's probably flailing and moving so much as a combination of the developmental urges and also not having 100% control yet. When Colin was at that age I used to do a modified shh/pat which worked really well - rather than patting I would lay one arm across his knees and the other across his chest, and shhhh. You might consider something like that.

[weatherlyn]

will give that a bash. He has also started to finally take to his comforter, he woke at 10pm last night and all i had to do was place it nearer so that he could grasp it, and he was back off to sleep. Do you have any idea where i could get hold of the BW quiz for the character type? i know luca is spirited but there is a dash of something else in there, and i would love to get a better idea just to be able to use some of tracys tips better.

[Colin Macs Mom]

Certainly - here is a link to the quiz

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=52283.0

It's in the EASY forum. Temperment has a lot to do with how to handle sleeping!

[weatherlyn]

thanks very much!! he is doing really well with putting himself back to sleep at night , but naps are a little more problematic. Lately when it is nap time he is dead tired , i put him in the cot, and leave him to it, but unlike at night after 20mins of rollin around he doesnt drift off, he gets more worked up and eventually overtired so have to pick him up until nearly off to sleep and then pop him back in. is that ok?

[Colin Macs Mom]

It's not the worst thing in the world, but you might try putting him down just a few minutes earlier to see if that helps.

[weatherlyn]

if i put him down earlier, i get 45 mins out of him instead of a good hour and a half.Guess just at that tricky age where ready to extend the naps, but not by too much? also, last nap of the day he doesnt even yawn i go strictly by the clock, and he gives me 40 mins but the first two.... have to share dead excited... usually before bedtime he falls asleep on breast,but tonight he was wide awake so popped him in cot and left him to it...15 mins later went into check and he was fast asleep all curled up in a corner so straightened him out and and pulled him towards the bottom. I am so proud of him that he managed to see himself off like that.. from wide awake and playing with not even a shush pat in sight. i did the quiz i have a spirited with dash of text book. Lets hope nap times go the same way soon!! Jessica, thank you for all your help and advice you have been fantastic. Lynsey

[Colin Macs Mom]

That's great!!! I wish Colin had been doing that well at 4.5 months. You're doing great, just hang in there and be patient. Sleep is extra hard with a spirited one.