this all started with a transition

[meltown]

ok, long story to tell but i feel it is important to tell it because to get help, I think you need to know.  It all started because my son was showing signs of a transition time.  He was sleeping short naps not really being too tired.  not eating quite as aften ect.  so I decided to transition him.  he was around his  time for a growth spirt so I waited until I thought it was done then transitioned him.  turns out it wasn't done nd once I transitioned him he started waking between 3-6 once to eat which he has never done before.  he was sleeping during his naps well and everything.  the wakings lasted for 6 days, so I figured he was done.  so I decided it was time to work really hard to get him on his schedual.  then the 30-45 minute naps started.  he is waking and will not go back to sleep no matter what we do.  I have tried to shh/pat him back to sleep but he wont budge.  he just cries until we pick him up and once we pick him up he wont go back to sleep at all.  He didn't wake during the night for 2 days and then last night was up at 4:30 again.  I think he is waking because he is overly tired.  The problem is that I don't know how to fix the problem.  he wont go down early and if he does he wakes after 30-45 minutes.  I thought maybe it was a habit but he is not consitant in waking at the same time.  it is almost always a bit different.   he is on a 3 hour EASY and it works for feeding him.  he doesn't seem hungry until then.  so how do I work the naps and night sleep time???  here is today's schedual.

4:30- woke and wouldn't go back to sleep until feed
8:00- woke feed
9:15-into bedroom and wind down
9:30-sleep
10:10- woke and wouldn't go back to sleep brought him out of room after 30 min of trying to get him back to sleep.
11:00- feed
12:30- fell asleep in car seat we were about to leave to go grocery shopping
1:00- awake wouldn't go back to sleep
2:00- feed
3:00- in room for wind down cried until alseep
3:15-sleep
4:06-wake wont go back to sleep
4:30-feed
5:30- in room for wide down
5:40- sleep
will wake at 6:30 if he doesn't wake earlier himself
6:30 feed
bath
7:30 top off then bed

his normal bed time is 7:30 but with all the weird naps I thought we would maybe get one more nap in and make the bath and bed routine short so he gets to bed on time.  I debated about just doing his bed time routine and putting him to bed early but that would be an hour and a half early and I thought that may be too early.

ok, I was wondering how I work this with his schedual.  he normally will sleep 12 hours through the night without waking.  sleeping the "normal" amount for naps is too much for him because of how much he gets at night so I thought hour/ hour 15 min naps would probably be better so then he doesn't wake in the night or early for the day so how would I work his awake time and sleep time??  start time in the morning is 7:30 and bed time 7:30.

my other question is if he wakes after 30 min and wont go back the time I am trying to put him back down is awake time.  if his 1 hour 15 min of awake time is up before his next feeding or at his next feed how do I work the schedual??  that was the problem today.  he woke and would be up way too long I know but I couldn't work his schedual with feeding and everything.  after he fed he woudl be wide awake and I wouldn't know what to do.  so I would watch for the sins and they woudl usually come pretty quick but even if I did try to put him down it wouldn't work until his normal sleep time. 

I know he is overly tired, I just don't know how to work things to get him back to where he can sleep more and function better.  should I be doing things different?  his plan is the norml 3 hour plan but I think the naps need to be tweeked a bit.  any help wouldbe great, he is so tired but is handling it well, he is a trouper.

[meltown]

just wanting to bump this to get some help!

[samijoe]

Sorry Meltown,  unfortunately i guess we are all a bit busy with the holiday season.  I really think your lo is trying to transition to a 3.5/4 hr EASY.  Sleeping really is a numbers game for most at this age...the short naps are caused mostly due to his overtiredness at this point, as i notice quite a few are only 30 minutes.

Most lo's at his age are taking 3-1.5 hr naps and a catnap of 45minutes.  Meaning that they are rougly up for half of the total 3hr EASY.  His A times at the moment are outweighing his sleep, causing the cycle (too much for him).  I don't think he is quite ready for the A times required to pull off a full 4hr EASY, but maybe a 3.5hr EASY?  Try putting him down sooner....so maybe after waking 1.5hrs, put down to nap for 2hrs.  Start your winddown a little earlier while lo is overtired...give them the chance to try falling asleep.  It sounds like your lo can maybe handle eating every 3.5hrs...so doing this routine for now will compensate for his overtiredness (giving him less A time than now).  I really do bet that by 4mths....so in just two weeks or so, he will probably completely switch to the 4hr EASY no problem.

You caught it early.  When my lo began doing this I found this website and asked the same questions.  Why was my good little sleeper going completely batty??  You will LOVE the 4hr EASY....getting there can be a little weird and confusing, but boy do i miss those 2-2 hr naps and a catnap!  Man, those were the days.

Try to aim for this for now, we should be able to correct the overtiredness.

A rough 3.5hr:

730 wake, diaper change, feed
900- nap 1
1100- wake, diaper change, walk around the house...ANYTHING to distract...FEED
1230- nap 2
230- wake, diaper change, feed
400- nap 3
545- wake
600- feed
630- bath
650/700- feed
730- bed
1030/1045- optional dreamfeed...works for some

I know this seems hardly attainable right now with all the short naps etc...but decreasing your current A times of  1.5, 2.25, 2.25, 1.45, 1.0 hr (the first ones are way too long for now) will really help.  I bet you lo can do 1.5 awake most times.  Give it time, the results won't be immediate.  Go at it till New Year and i'll bet you'll have it mostly sorted!

The longer naps will happen when the overtiredness has been corrected, and lo is having A times that are suitable for adequate sleep.  Lo needs to play long enough to sleep long enough.

Hope this all helps,
good luck

sami

[meltown]

I totally understand about the holidays, I just didn't want it to get barried by all the other posts!

we just transitioned to a 3 hour easy a week ago.  he was on 2.5 until then and just started to transition to a 3 hour easy.  Also, I have tried to put him down earlier to get him to make up for the first 30 min nap and he still sleeps 30 -45 minutes and wakes up. that is when most of the problems happen because his eating time is after when his 1.5 hours of awake time are up.  I'm not sure wether to keep him awake to eat or to put him down.  If I did that the whole EASY plan wouldn't really be EASY.  it would be more like EASAS and I would get a 30 min nap and a 15 min nap out of him then it would be time to eat.  he is definatly hungry at 3 hours.  so I don't know if he could make it to the 3.5 mark.  I would love to have him on a 3.5 or 4 hour EASY, I just don't think he is quite ready for it. 

So this is where the question comes up about what to do when he sleeps 30 min.  I spend the next 30 min trying to get him back to sleep then bring him out and it is awake time.  I added up all the sleep time in a day and with the 30-45 min naps he sleeps for 15 hours.  This is because he sleeps 12 hours at night and has done this for a while.  he rarely wakes up but I think this 12 hour thing is part of the problem.  I don't want that changed but I don't think he needs 5.5 hours of naps during the day.  is that wrong??  Could he still need that much nap time?  and if he wont nap any longer what do you do??

I'll try the different awake times and see if it helps.  I will try my hardest to get him back on track, I just don't understand how if he is only sleeping 45 min. he will get over the overtiredness.  should I be really strict with my awake time and even if it is time to feed go and put him down or feed then go put him down right away??  what if he wont go down??  sometimes he wont fall asleep until it is time to sleep. 

[JennŠ]

Sometimes you have to play with things.  We did EAESY for a long time.  EASY is a guideline, not set in stone. 

[meltown]

we have been doing the adjusting activity time with no luck in beating this.  could you maybe have the EASY forum moderaters check this out too.  I would like their insight as I am wondering if it may be a routine problem as well as overtiredness.

[*Natasha*]

Sorry for not replying earlier but i have been away for Xmas. I think Sami has given you some great advice. You mentioned that he started night waking and short naps when you tried to transitioning to a 4hr EASY sounds like he isn't ready for that yet and i would agree to try a 3.5hr EASY first. I will ask the EASY Mods to step in and give some adivce for you.

[meltown]

he just transitioned to a 3 hour easy not 4.  I am not sure why this all started but I am trying to use W2S and short activity time toget him back on track.  It was the only Idea I had.

[* Paula *]

Meltdown, from what you are saying, it does look like your DS is ready to transition to a 3.5 hour EASY.  What I would suggest doing is trying to extend your A times by about 5 minutes every few days until your DS is on a 3.5 hour EASY - Watching that your lo does not get overtired.

The short naps are a tell tale sign that he is looking to transition.

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=63161.0

It might be worth trying to see how things go.

I would definitely try Wake 2 Sleep to try and extend naps, so that your lo can catch up on a bit of sleep and is less tired when you try to transition.

Please keep us posted on how you get on.

Paula

[meltown]

ok, I have a question that no one seems to be answering.  I just transitioned him to a 3 hour EASY 3 Weeks ago and that is when the short naps started.  He was napping pretty good until I changed his Routine.  is it possible to skip the 3 hour EASY??  like go from a 2.5 to a 3.5? 

[* Paula *]

Yes it could very well be possible, some lo's skip the 3.5 hour easy, and go straight from 3 to 4 - this is what our lo did.