11month old awake at 4:30am habitually.

[debo620]

For the last week-noah-11months old has been waking at 4:30am every morning. Sometimes he just talks a bit and is back to sleep within 10min and wakes the usual wake time at 5:45. Other times---he talks alot and is not back to sleep still at 5:15am---this morning I opted to go give him a 4oz bottle even though he wasn't crying for it. He played for a bit more and finally went back to sleep at 5:45am. I went and woke him this am at 6:30am---the naps today are now a bit of a mess as he only really had 'time' for a 40min nap this am . I am wondering about maybe using w2sleep at say 3:50am to get him past this 4:30am wake-up.

any suggestions welcome.

usual routine:
wake 5:45-6
nap 3.5hr later 9:15-10:15 or 10:30
nap 4hrs later 2:30-3:30
bath 6:30, bed and asleep by 7pm.

It seems these earlymorning wakes started last Monday morning. We were at a family get together and I thought he would fall asleep on the way home. Unfortunately he wasn't asleep until 7:45pm---the next morning 4:40am and he stayed in his crib until 6, for some reason he has been habitualy waking since then.

[shelliz]

Maybe someone might have a different suggestion but we had the habitua waking at 4:30 and got rid of it by using w2s at 3:30.  I did it for two or three times and it went away

Hope it works!

Shelby

[debo620]

Thanks-will try tommorow am-yuck on Christmas day. my lo sleeps on his tummy. how much did you have to stir, what did you do? I'm a bit scared.

[shelliz]

Actually I could just go in and pull on her blanket a bit and she would stir. If I thought it might not be enough... I would wait 2 or 3 minutes (until I was sure she was back to sleep) and tug (or recover her) with the blanket again.  If you don't use a blanket you can just move his arm a tad bit (I do this sometimes too). Anything very lightly that will just barely make him move a bit.  I won't fib...there have been a couple of times where I stirred her too much but it has been very easy to get her back to sleep. Just think "less is more"
 

[M and N's Mom]

I have used w2s for naps.  I always stir him just enough to get him to move (his arm, or turn his head or some response).  When I do it, I hurry out of the room so he doesn't see me.  Good luck!

[debo620]

well I did last night at 4am, I had meant to do it earlier but slept a  little late. anyway--just me walking on the floor-creaky wood!-made him take a deep sigh and move  a bit. I actually think he sort of woke fully as I heard him moving a bit 5min later.  The only problem was that he then woke at 5:20am---so about 1 cycle of sleep since I made him stir. Did you find this Shelliz? Anyway, I think I will do it again tonight.
we were out all day for Christmas today and thus naps were a bit messed up, he ended with 40min at 9am, another 30min in the car at 12:15 and then a good 1hr at  3pm----he slept a little later then I like---as I usually like him up no later the 3:30--maybe I should of woke him but hopefully it won't affect the length of our night.
thanks guys

[shelliz]

sorry Deborah! I have been out of town!

Hope everything is going well with the w2s!!  I have found that sometimes after doing w2s that she may wake at a different time. It usually wasn't the start of a habit though.  I hope you have some luck with it!

I am actually about to have to try it as Jess has begun a new habit of waking at 4:50 am due to being off schedule for the holidays! 

[debo620]

yes thanks--the 4:30 am wake-up is gone after 1 night of w2sleep, we are still in the process of tweaking the routine though with naps> I find it is so hit and miss after about 5am. I think he is in a really light/active sleep. Like today---I heard him 4:30, 5,5:20, 5:40, and then he woke at 6am. The other times he just sort of kicked his crib but he wasn't really awake.
I have found that if the afternoon nap ends to late---he goes to bed fine but he wakes early. The other day we had a crappy day for naps and he ended up with a catnap bwtn 4:30-5, was in bed at 7, but woke next day at 4:30am. craziness
good luck--totally know what you mean about being off track d/t the holidays.

[Tobysmum]

debo620 - what's your routine?  I am having the same issues as you.  How late do you think is too late to wake up from the 2nd nap.  Toby has been waking between 4.30 and 5.30 every morning for the past 10 days.  He does not go back to sleep on his own, just cries and cries - I have been going in cuddling him for a few seconds and putting him back down , he then goes back to sleep until 6.00/6.30 ish when he's hungry.  It's definitely become a habit.  My baby is nearly 11 months.

[debo620]

Hi Tobysmum,
I'm sorry to say that we are haveing routine issues right now because of early am wakings and the 2-1nap transition, so I don't think posting my routine will help you at all. 
you could try w2sleep to see if it would help.  is he overtired when he goes to bed in the evening? what can happen is that they go in to a very deep sleep in the evening and then wake early feeling rested. this probably isn't the case since he is going back to sleep after a cuddle.
sorry I cant be of more help...

[Gippie]

Tobys mym - I agree with the pp - when we had the large window of wakes, it was bedtime related.  we moved er bedtime a lot earlier and it wa all a lot better.    Try that for a few days.I guess a better question is WHAT are wake, nap and bed times right now?   

We have a early wake issue...I have been a sleep detective for at least 10 weeks now, and writing it all down for about 5-6 weeks.    This past week I had a 4:20 wake that is on day 2 of being squashed with a 3:30 w2s BUT now she wakes ONE CYCLE after her old w2s time and will NOT go b2s.

Past 2 nights, from 5-5:45, I tried it all....and at 5:45 I gave her her nowmal AM bottle and I put her back in her crib and hse went b2s and woke one hour later - the exact hour that she would have taken if she hadnt woken at 5.

Would any of you do w2s AGAIN at 4? 

[Tobysmum]

Toby is almost 11 months and I'm having a hard time of it with his early morning wakings.  I managed to get rid of the night wakings by doing pu/pd but that doesn't seem to be working anymore for the early morning wakings.
Here is our rough routine:

Wakes up between 4.00 and 5.30 - Sometimes pu/pd works (particularly if it's earlier) but recently it doesn't seem to have been working and I've ended up giving in and feeding him as by the time I've done it a few times, we've ended up at about 6.00/6.30 and by that time he's probably hungry and pu/pd won't work!

6.00/6.30/7.00/7.30 BF (can be any of those times depending on whether he went back to sleep or stayed awake)
8.30 Solids
9.15/9.30 Sleep for approx 1.5 hrs (sometimes his nap is later if we are in our baby/mum exercising class in the park - just sits in his stroller while I run/walk him around) - if this is the case I feed him when I get home at about 10.30 and put him down for his nap after)
11.00 BF
12.00/12.15/12.30 Lunch solids
1.30/2.00 Sleep for 1.5 hours approx (daytime naps amount to 2.5-3 hrs approx)
3.00/3.30 BF
5.15ish Dinner solids
6.00 Bedtime routine
6.30/6.45 Sleep

This morning he woke up at 5.00am approx and we did pu/pd for ages and he just wouldn't go back to sleep - I think he eventually cried himself to sleep at about 6.30 until about 7.15 but we'd been up since 5am before that!  I BF him at 7.30.  Before this I'd been feeding him at about 6.00/6.30 and letting him go back to sleep and I know if I'd done that today he would have gone back to sleep.  It's become a habit for him and the only way he seems to go back to sleep is if I feed him.  Perhaps he is genuinely hungry and I'm being cruel by not feeding him at 5.30?  I really don't want to do that everyday but as i said, perhaps it's what I'm going to have to do.

Any suggestions?

Our naps aren't always the same - I really don't like waking him from naps but should I be?  Our bedtime routine is consistent and he ALWAYS goes straight to sleep with absolutely no problems.  He has started waking from all of his naps crying which he never used to do.

How long should I aim for the morning nap to be?
How long should I aim for the afternoon nap to be?
Is our bedtime of 6.30/6.45 OK?

Thanks

[Gippie]

HI there!   I am SO having the same "early wake, wont go B2S without a feed" - we did it this am.   We have licked the 4:20 am beast and she is up at 5 and miserable.   I tried all the tricks and ONLY a bottle will soothe her.    Here is a link to a post for what I will try tonight.  https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=84788.0 Look a  few down to momofoscar's solution to the similar problem and how she used w2s in increments to push the wakes back.

YOu schedule looked a lot like mine back at 11 months.  We JUST went to 1 nap and it has been good.  Your bedtime looks good  (early enough to not be overtired).   The thing that FRUSTRATES me is that the problems we all have can have polar opposite solutions.    I read posts that talk about how one mom licked the early wakes by pushing bedtime BACK...so he got his 12 hours from point A to B and others like me who needed to move bed earlier to get a better night.   

If he is in bed at 6:30 - then 6:30am MIGHT be a reasonable wake - to me at least.   That means 12 hours at night and then 3 in the day....he could have way too much sleep(15 hours)!!!!     Perhaps his early wakes are just him all set and ready for the day.   With 3 day hours and 11 at night - you'd get 14 - which I THINK is close to right(with your bedtime.....and him getting up at 5:30 - thats 11 hours + 3 in the day - its right on to the 14 hours!).  If you push his bedtime back to 7/7:15.....he might take that time frame and shift his wakes a little later?   It is  (as I said) so frustrating, cause we are detectives and it is a crap shoot.   

Copied from sleep board!
9 months old:
Night: 11 hours;
Day: 3 hours, 2 naps of 1.5 hours each;
Total: 14 hours

1 year old:
Night: 11.5 hours;
Day: 2.25 hours - 2 naps, 1 of 1 hour and 1 of 1.25 hours;
Total: 13.75 hours


I guess the questions are more about what time is a nessecary/desired wake time for your LO and family?    LEts start there....and then look at gradually moving all of the events back a tad.....if you can all sleep in till 7:30 each day (and want to) you might need to shift those 12 night hours to 7:30-7:30 (be in bed at 7-7:15ish).    The only concern is that you dont want that last nap too close to bedtime (Tracy says 3pm (3:30?) to have them up) and that if you keep the 3 hours in the day - it is still the same situation......15 hours!     What about 7pm-6am and 3 hour naps?   

check out other moms scedules on the EASY boards....that always helped me see what others were doing.  Also check out the link at the top.    I know there is a lot here....hope it makes some sense.

Eventually as he can stay up longer, you will see a delay of the second nap and that might be the time you transition to one nap.  That was our HUGE sign....her 2nd nap had drifted from 1:30 - 3:30 to STARTING at 3:30 - it wasn't good and we really didnt "notice" until she was up at night and we started the transition...and it IS much better!!!!

Be in touch
Stacey