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Offline Nani

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5 month old - Waking every hour
« on: December 29, 2006, 16:09:19 pm »
My son is 5 months old and for the past 4 nights he has been waking up almost every hour.  I do not believe that he is teething.  Usually he is able to go back to sleep by being shh’d, rubbing his forehead or by giving him his pacifier.  Other times I have fed him (once usually), which is typical during the night. 

I am currently breastfeeding and sometimes I gather from his reactions after the second breast that he wants more.  Could this be affecting his nightly sleep? 

I am not sure of what to do about his hourly wakings.  Please help this sleep deprived mother!

His EASY schedule is as follows:

He wakes up about 8 a.m.

E around 8 a.m. – 8:30 a.m.
A 8:30 a.m. – 9:30 a.m.
S 9:30 a.m. – 11 to 11:30 a.m. (1 ½ - 2 hour nap)

E 11:30 a.m.
A 12:00 p.m. – 1 p.m.
S 1:00 p.m. – 2:30 p.m. (1 ½ - 2 hour nap)

E 3 p.m.
A 3:30 p.m. – 4:30 p.m.
S 4:30 p.m. – 6 p.m. (1 – 1 ½ hour nap)

E 6 p.m. to 6:30 p.m.
A 6:30 – 7:15 p.m.
E/S 8 p.m. (usually has a feed before bed)

For the past few months, he has been swaddled during the day and at night he sleeps in a sleeping bag (his arms are free). His nap or bedtime routine is the following: he is placed in his swaddle or sleeping bag while in his crib, he is given his pacifier, his forehead is rubbed and a white noise machine is put on and he will usually fall asleep fairly quickly. 

He will sleep from about 8 p.m. to about 11 p.m – 12 a.m., then wakes up crying/screaming.  I calm him down and then an hour to an hour and a half later he wakes up again.

I should also mention that this schedule is fairly new, about 2 weeks ago, my son would only nap for 40 minutes during the day, sometimes 4 – 5 naps a day.  Regardless of interventions I tried, 40 minutes was his maximum and that lasted for about 3 months.  However, during this time, he would sleep 6 – 8 hours and then wake up for 1 feed in the night and then go back to sleep for 4 – 5 hours.

Thanks,
Andrea
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Offline Jenny_Jen

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Re: 5 month old - Waking every hour
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2006, 18:33:11 pm »
JMO but sounds like teething to me.  My DS wakes every hour & doesn't nap much when he's teething.
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Offline abbysmomma

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Re: 5 month old - Waking every hour
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2006, 20:32:33 pm »
Hi.. I've been going through many of the same problems, and I was looking at your schedule. It seems like your LO sleeps a lot during the day! I have a very similar situation, and I keep thinking that maybe the day sleep is starting to rob the night sleep. I pretty much have to force Abby to stay awake for longer than 2 hours, and I try to keep her day sleep to 4.5 hours max - I try usually for 4 hours. If Abby has one two hour nap, the other nap is max 1.5 hours and the catnap is as short as i can make it (45 min usually). And while I still have multiple night wakings, I think I might have them until I can wean her from her one night feed. I don't think she understands that sometimes she gets to eat when she wakes up, and other times she must keep sleeping. Anyways, I don't have a lot of advice - just letting you know that you're not alone! Oh, one other thought - maybe going through the six month growth spurt early? If so, keep feeding, and hopefully it will go away! Good luck!
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Offline Nani

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Re: 5 month old - Waking every hour
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2006, 01:38:42 am »
I really don't think that my LO is teething.  Thanks for the advise about the naps.  I thought that he might be sleeping too much as well, but as I mentioned about 2 weeks ago, he was only giving me naps that lasted 40 minutes  :o!  I was starting to go crazy with his schedule and no matter what I did, 40 minutes was the max (today he gave me one 2 hour nap and two 40 mintue naps - we'll see what happens tonight).   Then when he finally started sleeping longer during the day (except today), I though this is great!  Then the craziness started with his final bedtime.  It seems it's a never ending battle, just when you think you have one problem solved, another one begins.  I am not sure what else to do for his evening wakings?
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Offline angelina and andrew's mum

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Re: 5 month old - Waking every hour
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2006, 19:59:33 pm »
ive had same probs with dd-when she has short naps in the day she only gets up once in the night but when she has great naps shes up every hour during the night. i normally have to sshh her back to sleep(she still takes one or two feeds at night as well).
i cant offer much advice but just wanted to say hang in there, ur doing a great job. :)
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Offline Anthea01Charlie

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Re: 5 month old - Waking every hour
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2006, 23:43:25 pm »
Seems we are having similar encounters!!  My bub was sleeping beautifully for 6 - 8 hrs a night until I moved her to the 4 hr routine and increased her daytime naps.  Originally she was taking 3 1 hr naps, now is taking 2 2 hr naps and a cat nap (following the routine from Traceys book) and her night wakings got worse.  I would rather her nap during the day and SLEEP at night, so 40 min naps are welcome during the day, so we can get some rest at night!!  Good luck with your LO - hopefully things get better for you.
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Offline Nani

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Re: 5 month old - Waking every hour
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2006, 00:48:29 am »
Thanks for the feedback  :)  It is hard pill to swallow when your child just does not want to cooperate.  I am a control freak and I like routine and the moment things change, alarm bells go off in my head.  I myself, don't like the 40 minute naps, it seems as though I cannot get anythings done for me.  I also find that my LO wants many of them.  Today we had one 1 1/2 hour nap, one 40 minute nap and one 20 minute snap (as I call them).  It is 7:15 and hopefully he will sleep well tonight.  Thanks again for the advise and feedback, it's reassuring to know that I am not alone  :)
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Offline abbysmomma

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Re: 5 month old - Waking every hour
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2006, 02:39:05 am »
Let us know how it goes. Maybe I need to do the same with mine!
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Offline Nani

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Re: 5 month old - Waking every hour
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2006, 15:40:29 pm »
Well last night was interesting, after one 1 1/2 hour nap, one 40 minute nap, and one 20 snap he was in bed by 7:15 pm and he woke at 12:30 am for a feed fell back asleep without any problems until 6 am.  I tried to soothe him, but he wanted to feed (I am currently bf).  I fed him and he went back to sleep until 9 am.  Maybe the night waking issue relates to his daytime naps.  I will see how it goes over the next couple of nights  :)  Thanks for all the feedback!  I do appreciate your all your help!
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Offline angelina and andrew's mum

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Re: 5 month old - Waking every hour
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2007, 11:42:09 am »
thats brilliant nani-children are definately mind boggling!!
keep us posted and happy new year.xx
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Offline Lockie & Sam's Mummy

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Re: 5 month old - Waking every hour
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2007, 01:27:26 am »
hi andrea,

looking at your schedule, it seems you're on a 3.5hr easy. have you tried transitioning to the 4hr easy? at 5 months, your lo should really be able to handle a 2hr activity period. i found a lot of my lo's sleep issues went away when i extended his "a" time & moved to the 4hr easy. anyhow, hope things get better for you soon!
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Offline Nani

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Re: 5 month old - Waking every hour
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2007, 15:11:42 pm »
Hi Livy,
I just recently started the 3.5 hour EASY and am slowly trying to move to a 4 hour EASY.  However, I usually find that in the morning, my LO cannot stay up for very long (1 1/2 hour) and in the afternoon, early evening he has no problem staying up for 2 hours.  Any ideas?
Andrea
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Offline Lockie & Sam's Mummy

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Re: 5 month old - Waking every hour
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2007, 21:30:26 pm »
hi andrea,

i had a similar problem with my lo's first "a" time & put up a post. i was given the advice to gradually increase his "a" time by 15min increments until i was at 2hrs. this worked fine for us, although very occasionally he won't *quite* make it to 2hrs & then there are days that he even makes it to 2hrs 15mins! you can increase more gradually if you feel your lo needs to go more slowly.

in tracy's book, she recommends working on extending the first "a" time, then once it's at the correct time, moving on to the next "a" time & so on until the whole day is on the 4hr easy. we found that increasing this first "a" time really helped with the whole day as he was able to take a really good first nap which is crucial to good napping/sleeping for the rest of the day.

also, you'll probably find that your lo will take fuller feeds when you move to the 4hr easy as he will be hungrier at each feed. your supply should adjust accordingly & hopefully the better feeding should help the routine too! anyhow, lots of luck & be sure to let us know how you're going...
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Offline Nani

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Re: 5 month old - Waking every hour
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2007, 21:45:39 pm »
Hi Livvy,
Isn't that interesting, I knew about slowly increasing the A time by 15 min. increments, but I must of missed the part about working on the first A time.  That makes so much sense! 
Thanks so much!
Andrea
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Offline Nani

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Re: 5 month old - Waking every hour
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2007, 01:26:26 am »
It's happening again  :o  Last night my LO was up almost every hour.  I fed him twice and the other times I gave him his soother, PU/PD, or rubbed his head.  His naps yesterday were very short.  He was up for two hours from when he got up, slept for only 1 hour.  Then was up for 2 hours again, woke up after 40 minutes I did PU/PD for 20 minutes and he fell back asleep for 45 minutes.  Then he was up for 3 hours  :P (I tried to put him to sleep after 2 hours, but he cried & screamed).  He finally fell asleep for 40 minutes and was up for over an hour before bedtime.  Is it his short naps that affected his night sleep? 
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Offline angelina and andrew's mum

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Re: 5 month old - Waking every hour
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2007, 08:54:51 am »
in the book it does say that short naps can affect their sleep. start to work on that first then it says the nightime sleep will fall in2 place-dont know if it always works like that but its worth a try.
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Offline Lockie & Sam's Mummy

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Re: 5 month old - Waking every hour
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2007, 09:40:59 am »
hi andrea,

it could be the short naps affecting his night-time sleep. however, in your first post, your lo was having good naps during the day but still had the same night waking problems so maybe it's more than that?

i think there are two issues right now. firstly, regarding the short naps, it can take a while to transition to the 4hr easy so don't be discouraged if you have some weird napping for a while, it should settle down after you've made the full transition (could take a couple of weeks or more). ultimately, being on the right easy routine should help.

secondly, the night wakings. i'm really not sure about those. what does your lo do when he wakes? does he cry/scream for you or does he just potter about in his cot? has he reached any developmental milestones lately? is he dependent on his soother and/or feeding to fall asleep during the night?
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Offline Nani

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Re: 5 month old - Waking every hour
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2007, 16:24:14 pm »
Hi Livvy,
Thanks for your reply.  I wish I knew what the underlying issue is with my LO.  Last night for example, he woke up 3 times and every time he woke, he wanted to feed. I tried changing him, pu/pd, shush pat, and tried giving him his soother, he didn't want it.  All he would do is cry and scream in my arms.  Is he going through a growth spurt?  Maybe, he's almost 6 months old, but that doesn't solve the other issues occurring before last night.  I am very frustrated with his night wakings and I can see that they affect his day sleep too.  I have tried to transition him on a 4 hour EASY... could this be affecting his sleep.  I also thought it might be a food issue, I am BF and I try giving him an extra ounce or two of formula or BM.  This hasn't solve the issue either.  I am really perplexed at his behaviour  ???  Any ideas ... solutions??
Andrea
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Offline Lockie & Sam's Mummy

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Re: 5 month old - Waking every hour
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2007, 20:57:31 pm »
hi andrea,

the 3 times you fed him, did he take a full feed each time or did he just take a little bit and/or fall asleep on the breast/bottle?

if he's taking full feeds each time, then sounds like he isn't getting enough during the day. seems a bit early for the 6-month growth spurt but that's possible too. is he taking the extra ounces you're giving him during the day? if so, perhaps he needs even more? have you started him on solids? it's not recommended until 6mo but some big babies actually need it earlier (see your ped or maternal/child health nurse for advice on this).

if he didn't take a full feed, then sounds like he might be using the breast/bottle as a prop (see the props board for loads of info about how to stop this). as for the underlying night waking issue, i admit, i'm stumped! when my lo has woken at night in the past & not from hunger, it's usually due to:
  • overtiredness - solved by moving to 4hr easy & earlier bedtime
  • breast dependency - stopped feeding at night & soothed instead
  • teething - just rode it out, lots of cuddles & i hear bonjela works well
  • dev milestones eg. rolling - just rode it out, lots of practice during the day

sorry that isn't much help! maybe one of the night waking moderators has some suggestions? or one of the other mums?
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Re: 5 month old - Waking every hour
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2007, 21:07:04 pm »
I'm having similar issues with my 3.5 mth old - I'm concerned it could be too much daytime sleep.  My schedule looks very similar to yours.  I've tried everything - nursing, not nursing, dream feed, no dream feed, no catnap, with catnaps... Nothing seems to change it.
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Offline Lockie & Sam's Mummy

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Re: 5 month old - Waking every hour
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2007, 02:56:20 am »
the typical hours of sleep can be found in a separate post from the naps faq:
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=3195.0

basically it has 3mo on 5hrs of naps per day & 6mo on 2.25hrs of naps per day.  my son is 5.5mo & averages 3.5hrs per day. he takes 3 naps of about 1-1.25hrs each. we haven't dropped the 3rd nap yet as he still seems to need it.
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Offline Nani

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Re: 5 month old - Waking every hour
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2007, 15:17:02 pm »
Hi Livvy,

Thank you so much for all your time and effort to help us out  :)

Yes he is taking in full feeds.  When I top him up during the day, I usually give him 1 1/2 - 2 oz. of BM or formula.  He takes it, but towards the end, he usually plays with the nipple.  I have done a yield and I get about 4 - 4 1/2 oz., which I think is not enough for him.  So he definitely needs the top up.  According to the Tracy's book, a 4 - 6 month old should take between 5-8 oz. per feed, which my son is doing.  Tracy also says that babies this age should have 5 feeds, plus the dream feed (which we don't do).  He does however usually feed 6 times a day and I tank him up in the evenings.  My son is about a week away from 6 months and this weekend we will start solids.  But I still don't understand why he is waking so frequently during the night, last night he woke up at 2 am, I feed him, then again at 5 am, I tried to avoid feeding him so I can replenish my BM, I ended up giving him 5 oz of formula, he took it and then woke up at 8 am wanting more.  Maybe he is going through his 6 months growth spurt  ???

We have been trying to move to a 4 hour EASY, so far we are at about 1.45 hours and he sleeps for about 1.5 hours twice daily and one 45 minute nap.  So he averages about 3.5 like your son.  I too find he does need that 3rd nap. 

Developmentally, he found his feet and want to hold them every time I give him a diaper change.  I give him extra time with that. 

Teething could be an issue, everything is in his mouth and he is drooling.  We have to wait and see for that.

This night waking is exhausting  :-X

Thanks again Livvy!

Andrea

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Offline Lockie & Sam's Mummy

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Re: 5 month old - Waking every hour
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2007, 20:37:38 pm »
hi andrea,

not a problem, i've had so much help on the boards, i figure it's my turn to try & help out ;D

if your lo is taking 2 full feeds at night, then his night-wakings seem to be due to hunger. otherwise, he would just take a little bit & fall back to sleep again. so it does seem like it could be a feeding issue. could you post your current routine? (don't worry if it isn't the full 4hr easy yet)

six feeds a day does sound a lot. does this include the night feeds or only the day feeds? also, does this include the tanking up feed(s)? we don't do the dreamfeed either. my ds has 4 feeds a day + 1 tank-up/top-up feed at bedtime. he either sleeps through without a feed or wakes for 1 feed (time varies). our routine - on a good day! - is something like this:

7:00am wake-up & bf
8:00am breakfast, solids
9:00am nap (1-1.25hrs)
10:15am wake-up & bf
12:30pm nap (1-1.25hrs)
1:45pm wake-up & bf
4:00pm nap (1-1.25hrs)
5:00pm wake-up & bf
6:00pm dinner, solids
6:30pm bath, massage
7:00pm top-up bf & bed

we introduced solids about a week ago but were already on this schedule for a couple of weeks before that (minus the solids). anyhow, hope this helps!
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Offline Nani

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Re: 5 month old - Waking every hour
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2007, 22:55:54 pm »
Hi Again!

For the past two nights, he has been taking in two full feeds.  Here is what his current schedule looks like (remember this is the past couple of days):

9:00 am   wake-up & BF
10:45 am nap (45 min - 1.5 hours)
12:30 am wake-up & BF with 1-2oz top-up of formula or BM
2:00 pm nap (1.5 hours)
4:00 pm wake-up & BF with 1-2oz top-up of formula or BM
6:00 pm nap (45 minutes)
6:15 pm BF with 1-2oz top-up of formula or BM
7:00 pm bath
8:00 pm BF with 1-2oz top-up of formula or BM
8:30 pm bed

1 - 2 am wake up and BF no top-up

4 - 5 am wake up and BF no top-up

Today, I have tried to increase my supply by pumping after he feeds and I will continue to do so for the next three days.  We are also planning to introduce solids within the next couple of days.  I have been trying to wait until six months.  I also forgot to mention that we just started in introduce formula (a week or so ago), I was very sad :'( when this happened, since I wanted to EBF for a year.  But when he would cry and scream after he was done both breasts, I knew that he still wanted more and I did not have BM to give him.



Andrea




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Offline Lockie & Sam's Mummy

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Re: 5 month old - Waking every hour
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2007, 11:39:40 am »
hi andrea,

your routine looks good! looks like you're well on the way to a 4hr easy :)

sorry to hear you had to stop ebf before you wanted to but good on you for doing the right thing for your little one - you've already given him a great start by ebf for almost 6 months!

when i want to increase my supply, i usually express on one side while ds feeds on the other side. since i get a letdown in both breasts at the same time, it makes expressing a lot easier.

also, i would increase the top-up amounts if possible just in case he'll take some more. if your lo still wakes 2 or more times a night for a feed (1 time is still okay at this age) after you've increased the top-ups & introduced solids, let me know & we can re-assess the situation.

alternatively, if he stops needing feeds at night but the night-wakings continue, then we may need to look at other possible causes for the wake-ups.

hth & good luck!
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Offline Nani

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Re: 5 month old - Waking every hour
« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2007, 21:16:37 pm »
hi livvy,

thanks again, you have  been a great help and very supportive  :)

two nights ago, my ds woke up once, it was great and happy for the both of us.  last night was a different story, he woke up 3 am to feed, then again at 4, 5, 6, 7 am and i finally fed him after 8 am.    during those wakings, i would give his soother and he would go back to sleep for the hour.  i topped him up all day yesterday and i thought we did good, but there is also something else going on.

livvy, could you explain a little more about increasing your supply.  do you feed your ds on the side you will pump first and the pump while he then feeds on the other side?

Thanks,

Andrea
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Offline Lockie & Sam's Mummy

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Re: 5 month old - Waking every hour
« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2007, 22:07:13 pm »
hi andrea,

sorry, i forgot that you feed from both sides so it may be a bit more difficult for you. i single-side feed so i express on the side i'm not feeding him on. in that case, perhaps expressing the way you're doing now (an hour after he feeds) is probably the best option. be sure you express after the first morning feed as your supply is typically highest then.

regarding the wake-ups last night, did you do anything other than give him back his soother? if not, sounds like he may have formed a dependency on it. does he cry because it falls out? does he need it to go to sleep? if so, it may have become a prop & props can often cause night wakings as lo cannot get back to sleep without it. there's lots of info on the props board, maybe have a read there & see if you're in the same boat.

hth!
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Offline Nani

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Re: 5 month old - Waking every hour
« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2007, 15:43:59 pm »
Hi Livvy,

During the night, I try pu/pd, shush-pat, or the soother.  There are times he does not want the soother and can go to sleep without it.  The soother may have very well become a prop and I do not want to rule anything out.  The soother is only limited to the crib and car.  Most times, he spits it out within 5 -10 minutes, other times, he has it in a lot longer.

Last night was interesting... my ds went to bed at 7:45 pm and woke up at 10:45 pm, he was hungry (I hear his tummy growling), so I fed him.  Then he woke up at 5 am, and I fed him.  Then he got up an hour later and wanted his soother,  and then woke up at 8 am for his morning feed.  How could he be hungry after the 5 am feed, my breasts were full?  ???  The thing that has me, is the night wakings are at different times, they are never consistant.  So, food and soothing could be the culprit!  I wish I could get to the bottom of this.

Thanks again  :) :)
Andrea
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Re: 5 month old - Waking every hour
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2007, 09:12:51 am »
hi andrea,

sorry for taking so long to reply, we've been having our own little bedtime dramas ::) how have things been going with your lo? are you still experiencing the night wakings?

since he's waking multiple times & not always for a feed, then i would agree with you that the problem is more than just a feeding issue. he doesn't appear to be able to self-soothe when he wakes in the night. are you sure you're not rushing in too soon? are you giving him a chance to soothe himself first?

unless he's teething and/or ill, i would persist with using pu/pd to get him to re-settle. if you need any info or help with pu/pd, there's loads available on the pu/pd board. also, i would seriously look on the props board to determine whether or not the soother has become a prop.

hang in there!
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Livvy
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Offline Nani

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Re: 5 month old - Waking every hour
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2007, 15:34:19 pm »
Hi!

Thanks again for your reply!  I wish I could say things are better, but they are the same, typically waking up 2 times a night, except for last night, which was every 45 minutes to an hour. 

I fed him several times last night, other times he would cry in his sleep and when we would go to him and do a pu/pd he would go back to sleep and when we didn't go to him, the crying got longer and louder.  I really don't understand what is going on with him  ???

Yesterday, I fed him as usual, until 6 pm, then it seem to be every two hours, but I also gave him top up's after almost each feed.  Could it be a growth spurt?  Could a growth spurt only occur during the evening hours?

Could it be developmental issues? He seems to be changing very much over the past week, enjoying his activity play station more, jumping in his jumper, rolling to side to side, starting to sit on his own for short periods of time.  Could these activities cause the night wakings?  But what I don't understand is is why is this going on for so long, it's been almost a month now and I just can't seem to wrap my head around it.

Livvy, other moms, moderators, do you have any advice for us???

Thanks,

Andrea  :)

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Offline abbysmomma

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Re: 5 month old - Waking every hour
« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2007, 16:21:41 pm »
Hi... something popped out at me from your response. You say he ate very frequently in the evening - supply is at its lowest at that period. I guess by now he's almost 6 months old? Abby just went through a 6month growth spurt and boy was it a doozy. The worst one by far! I just had to ride it out, but it sucked for almost a week. Seriously, the growth spurt and the extra activities CAN be a cause of frequent night wakings, and we've been going through them for almost 3 months. That's right. I'm not saying that yours is going to go on for so long. But we're finally getting a handle on it, so there is an end in site. Anyways, just thought I'd let you know that you're doing great, even though it may seem that nothing is working. Keep at it, and you will see results. :)
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Offline Nani

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Re: 5 month old - Waking every hour
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2007, 00:54:45 am »
Thanks for your reply Abby's momma :)  My ds is almost 6 1/2 months old and I don't know if what he's going through is a growth spurt or has gone through one during this past month, but the night wakings are still continuing.  I have tried to change things each day, such as giving him ff as his last feed and then bf him for his top up.  I have also tried giving him cereal just before the ff or just after. So far, nothing has worked, but I guess I will keep on trying different approaches until this issue is solved or he out grows this stage.  It's been challenging to try to figure out what is going on and it has been going on for a month now.  I am tired and overwhelmed  :o
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