We're STILL waking up...ugh!

[mari]

Sorry about the tummy bug, it seems to be going around in this area too.  Hope things settle soon.

[imsmum]

His good nap was probably a combination of being zonked from the illness as well as the 2 naps! He was probably not overtired at bedtime because he had the nap in the late afternoon.  Since you seem to have had some improvement with the earlier bedtime I would keep that up and speak to your daycare about getting him down ASAP for his afternoon nap.  Good luck!

[MDHmommy]

Argh...He took a big fat nap 2hrs 15 on Sunday - went down promptly at noon, no problem...and I took him up for bed at 6:30, but could not get him down until 7:30!!! Then he was up at 10, 12, 1-4 (!!!!) and 6:30. OMG. I can't make sense of this guy!!!
I give up....   

[mari]

What do you do when he wakes in the night?  I really think that the routine is great but it could be either a pain ie teething or could it be the way that he is settling.  Does he fall asleep independently, in your first post you say that you sometimes sit in the room, sometimes pat or rub his back.  do you think that he could be waking and then unable to get back to sleep alone?

I used to beat myself up about Alex's night wakings, I got the routine as advised but she still culdn't sleep, she used to have a party in her cot at 1am until 4am, she'd invite all her toys!!  but since I taught her independant sleep, and I mean really independent, no sh, no pat, no WIWO, no sitting, just kiss night night, go to sleep, I love you see you in the morning, now she wakes and falls back to sleep herself, sometimes even when overtired.
If it is teeth, he should settle after pain relief. I know that this can cause trouble, esp the big ones but really, the worst of it should be over after a few days
At daycare, is the routine the same, do you notice a change on daycare days compared to days that you have him?

Don't worry, things will improve, there are just bit of figuring to do. 

[MDHmommy]

It's come to Jesus time...

I wish that I could say, yes, I'm totally consistent. But I'm not because I hate for bed time to be a fight. DH and I take turns putting him to bed, every other night. When I put him down, half the time he goes right down, the other half he needs several walk in, put down, pat pat pat, walk outs. When DH puts him down he goes right down immediately, no screwing around. I know he's manipulating me. What do I do???

In the night, I'm weak.......................so end up staying in there because it's easier. (I'm ducking, I know...) doing all of the things you mention above. I know I need to teach completely independent sleep, and I really try, I don't rock him or anything, but I will stay there until he goes back to sleep because a lot of times, if I just stay for 20 minutes, then he;ll go back for the rest of the night...whereas if I don't it's a big struggle and we;re up for hours...I know I'm gambling, but should really just put in the time to do it properly. I think if I did, it would only take a night or two for him to catch on.

How to I deal with the bed time manipulation thing? I think I better tackle that first and then use the same strategies for middle of the night.

I also have to work on DH who has been known to show up in our bedroom with a baby in his arms....shame...

[mari]

OK, Firstly, stop feeling guilty, nobody here is judging you or your DH, we are all here to help,  Most of us have been there and done that so have felt just as you do.  It got so bad for me that I had to sleep in her room for a few nights. 
Here is a link to some sleep training advice,  when you choose which method then the most important thing is to stick with it.  I did WIWO and I can recommend it.  Whatever you decide, please post here as often as you like and we will all do our best to help. 

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=63896.0

[MDHmommy]

Hey Mari, thanks for the link, I've actually looked at this a few times and thought that I was doing Wi/Wo properly, but looked again last night, and realized that I probably was not leaving soon enough.

SO, last night DH put DS to bed and needed a couple of PDs and pats, but nothing outrageous. He was out by 7:15 (took a big 2.5 hour nap at daycare from 12:30 till 3:00). He stirred a bit at about 9:30, but I could hear him on the monitor and it sounded like he was dreaming so I left him alone, and he went back to sleep.

Then, at about 11:00 he stirred again (so that 3.75 hours after bed time) and woke fully. So I went in and PD, offered Paci and did Wi/Wo for about 15 minutes. Then, I got him his cup and he took a big drink, and we did another 15 mins or so of Wi/Wo. I stayed "out" while he was whining, and doing his frustrated chatter, and only went in after 5 seconds of real crying (there honestly wasn't much of that). About 30-40 minutes in, he started to really cry, and I thought that maybe he would like some tylenol for teeth, which I gave him - and right after that, he lay down, I did Wi/Wo maybe for 2-3 more times, and he settled into chatting and then finally just went to sleep ... I should note I was not even in the hall anymore, went back to bed and listened on monitor.

He then slept until 5:45 - and I left him to chat (even though it was his frustrated chat) until 6. And when I did go get him I turned on hall light, and said "good morning sunshine!!" and he gave me a big smile!

Progress, I guess? Will see how it goes tonight.

Thanks for your support.

Kate

[mari]

Sounds like great progress to me.  Well done to both of you. 

[MDHmommy]

Thanks!!

Quick q - when you do wi/wo, do you start by putting lo in crib, kiss good night then leave, wait to see what happens, if crying count to 5 then go in, PD, kiss goodnight, leave, repeat? Or do you then count to 10?

I just kept doing a 5 count last night, was not sure what to do about the 10 count....Does it REALLY matter?? 

[mari]

In fact I used to count to 15, it's whatever suits you, Alex used to just have a moan, an I wouldn't do anything, then it would turn into a grizzly sort of cry and then I'd start counting and I'd go in between 10-15 seconds.  You get to understand cries, some are just moans that will help them to settle (mantra cry) some are real cries, it's up to you to work them out.  HTH

[MDHmommy]

Stacy, I'm cracking up at your "status..." Good Grief!! Hilarious. Thanks for the advice. You're probably right, for a while there I was putting a bunch of pacis in the crib, he's started tossing them in frustration...I'll start that again tho. He LOVES the paci...will try this first before doing anything drastic, the kid will be shattered if I take it away at this point.

Mari, thanks, I think I'll to 10 seconds tonight and 15 the next if necessary. I do stand out there and wait to see if the "complaining" or mantra actually turns into a real cry before I go in. I can tell the difference, it's just a question of will power for me...

I think I best have another child so as not to completely spoil the %$@* out of this one

Stacy helped me a couple of months ago when we did PD - and it did work wonders. I feel like this is the beginning of solving this problem...

Thanks to you both!

Kate

[mari]

Rest mari is doing GREAT on as always!

Thank you Stacy, it's nice to have a compliment from such a good mod.   

Kate, it's so great when you realise that you can be positive and you feel that there is light at the end of the tunnel, and there is.  Read his cues and go to him when he needs you.  Let him know that you are there, but you are no push over!!  Hope tonight goes ok.

[MDHmommy]

Update:
Marshall went to sleep last night completely on his own at bedtime. I did Wi/Wo about 3 times, but mostly stayed out because he wasn't really upset. I did have to go in and pull his crib away from the wall when I heard him yanking on the wooden blinds...All told the whole process took about 15 minutes. Not bad.

He woke up at about 10:30, I went in, PD once and left. Heard him in there making annoyed sounds, like he was irritated that I didn't stay, but he never cried, so I went to bed.

Then he woke at 1:30 - same thing, but I did Wi/Wo three times, on the third time I stayed for about 45 seconds, rubbed his tummy until he settled and left. He talked a little bit but not for long.

4:45 - same thing as at 1:30 - he cried more at this wake up because I think he was ready to get up for the day, but I did PD and Wi/Wo and rubbed tummy for maybe 30 seconds on last Wi, and then left - he went back to sleep till 5:45.

It's really early, but we have to get up at 6 anyway for daycare and work, so that early wake up is pretty much ok with us.

Now....I did give him his paci on all of those occasions, even though there were several in the crib. I don't think that he could find them as they were scattered, stuck under bumpers, monkey and blankets...

It was a bit of a rough night, but at least he was not crying...and I think he'll get the hang of this fairly quickly.

[mari]

Well done, you are doing great.

[MDHmommy]

HE SLEPT ALL NIGHT LAST NIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

DH put him down, and did about 5 mins of Wi/Wo. He stirred a few times during the night, called out, but frankly, I don't recall the times because I STAYED IN BED! And he got himself back to sleep on his own.

He woke at 5:30, mind you...but that's ok! I'll deal with that later!!!!

Thanks ladies!!! I'm thrilled!!!