Early wakings getting worse and worse- really at a loss

[jmosery]

KATHLEEN- so sorry about Bethany. At least she's hydrated but it is scary when they aren't taking anything and you dont know if they are well one minute to the next. how do they check hydration? no clue? hope she gets better. doctor didn't mention what it could be? bug, flu? any meds or just waiting it out. sorry for the questions. hope she feels better and you get some rest

KRIDDY- so sorry DH is giving you a hard time. My DH always makes fun of me. Whenever I mention ANYTHING about my views on child raising or related to it to him or anyone, he always saids, "yeah, she learned that online. just ask her friends online" He doesn't understand that its not that i take people's views online as gold, but I talk to OTHERS who have similar views in child raising. And I love that you can come online(I post on the weight watchers boards, have been for years) but I love that you can come online, ask a question about parenting or children and get lots of different opinions and viewpoints in a matter of seconds. He just doesn't get it. He has never helped me with regards to scheduling or teaching Mikey how to sleep and will often joke. I always tell him, "go ask our friends when their kids were sleeping so well"

he also makes fun of me when I talk about overstimulation and about spirited babies because he thinks i'm quoting books. I just wish HE would learn some things and understand WHY kids are different and need different things.

I'm sorry that pu/pd isn't going easier but I heard that it takes a few days which I know you know. hang in there. I've never done it. Mikey has never needed it and I think it would be too much stimulation for him. (((HUGS))) though. hopefully DH can come around and be back on the same boat. i'm sure he's as frustrated as you are.

BROOKE- I wish our kids would be so easy as to keep it dark and quiet and they'll just go back to sleep. I guess that works for babies who wake up after 4-5-6 hours but I don't think that will work when Mikey has slept 9 or 10 hours. When he wakes pretty happy, he's ready to start the day. and I hear ya on the early wakings. I can't do 3:30-4 anymore. three days of it were enough.

I am doing a cat nap. Mikey for most of the day, the first and second A times, stays up for 2.5 hours. I realized that since he only sleeps 10-11 hours at night, the only way for me to be able to drop the cat nap is when he can go the first and second A time between 3-3.5 hours and the last A time 4-5 hours. Till then, I just have to keep the cat nap in beacuse I just can't put him to bed that early. But I have to tell you, the hour or hour and a half after the catnap are the WORST. Yesterday and today were miserable

Today we had friends come over with their 7 month old and Mikey was up from 1-4. at 4 he went down for a cat nap and woke up at 4:45. they were just leaving and it was rowdy and noisy. Mikey couldn't handle it as he was still tired. He had only slept 2.5 hours before so he was missing a little sleep and was overstimulated.

They left and he just wouldn't stop crying. He was so tired and wound up. I wanted to put him down at 6:30 but he was crying so badly that i put him in the bath at 5:30 and he went to bed at 6

so hopefully he'll sleep 11.5 hours or i'll be up early tomorrow. but I just couldn't keep him up. He was hysterical. Went down without a hitch.

fun fun with a spirited baby.

So lets hope for at least a 5:30 wake up tomorrow. i'm heading to bed and its only 7pm here.

oh, to answer your question BROOKE- i was born in NY but grew up Jersey. Actually grew up in the house that DH and I now live in. DH and I are high school sweethearts :)Which is why his parents live around the block from us. fun fun. it just never ends here.

How about you ladies? if you don't mind sharing a little bit about yourselves.

DH and I are both 29. Been together 11 years, married 3. Have two dogs, a lab and a half pug/half sharpei. Sasha(4yo) and Sammy(5yo). and Mikey and baby #2 on the way.

[Ali's mum]

thanks for the support ladies... POOR BETHANY!!!! our little flower among our boys is suffering, we're thinking about you Kat... don't worry about us for now, we're ebbing and flowing like a mo fo, lol...

well, had intensive day with hubbie - practically forced him with dagger eyeballs to read sections of BWSAYP on age appropriate pu/pd methods while i take a nap.  when i woke up he informed me that he decided to read the entire chapter and had some questions about it - which of course i couldn't entirely answer as i'm new at this too!  sure wish there was some video online showing us how it's done, once you're in the trenches you can lose confidence with your technique really quickly - it definitely escalates the situation, let me tell you!

Can you believe that DH is having waaaaaaaaaaaay better success with getting Ali down than me?  i take an hour or more (i think because i've been the all you can eat milk buffet), he takes 20 minutes tops - but when DH is super frustrated, he resorts to "his methods" which means poor Ali is screaming for hours - and then BW is blamed!  i busted him on all of that today though, so we're hoping to get it right tonight.  i'm not sure, because he's just gone to bed early to catch up some sleep, and blamed the cat for Ali's most recent waking, lol...

will let you know how it goes tomorrow - funny thing?  the days are going OUTSTANDING since reintroducing the cat nap... isn't that strange?  he's going down for all of his naps really well, gets a little grumpy and out of sorts for that disruptinve shift after the catnap, but then welcomes the final bedtime after that.  Nights are hellish due to AP - been nursing and paci plugging and having swearing tempertantrums through multiple wakings that have been getting worse and worse (much like the title of this thread indicates!) - have realized that i need to nip this in the bud, hence the pu/pd introduction.  problem is, i've never needed it before because textbook Ali was on such a good routine for so long - have trouble interpreting cries and body language because i haven't had much of that out of him before this!

loooooooooooooooove where i live... looooooooooooooooove the cold!  DH is from down south, came up here and couldn't bear the cold, now he can't bear the heat!  we love love love snow and chilly fog, get all crabby in the summertime heat! lol

it's me and him and Ali and our cat... oh yeah and my massive family that all live way too close to eachother when his are all down in Missourah! he's 30, i'm 33, been married for 5 years and are usually viewed as a really spot on, close, codependent couple... until conflicting parenting views come into play!!! thanks for sharing your similiar challenges, it helps immensely!!!  he can't give me  for my online parenting buddies for two simple reasons:  #1 - his career revolves around computers and the internet (developer/programmer/engineer) and he has a heavy forum presence from helping others out, and #2 - we met online 10 years ago!!! we knew on our very first phone conversation that we would probably get married, which we did - crazy hey?

[jmosery]

Hey ladies

KRIDDY- how cool you and DH met online. My sister has been doing some online dating, she's 26. But no success.  But there are more and more people meeting online all the time. My best friend and her DH met on JDate(dating service for Jewish people online)

So Mikey went to bed at 6 and at 4 he started crying. But crying in his sleep. Its totally his teeth. He'd cry more a few seconds, hysterical, then stop, then start again. OMG this has been giong on for 1/2 hour. I went in and gave him Tylenol in his sleep which is not helping. I dont know what to do. Finally, I feel terrible, I picked him up. Figured hes in pain, if he sleeps in my arms at least he feels better. OH NO! DO NOT pick up a spirited baby. He woke up and all h-ell broke loose. He started screaming and wanting down. Totally ruined his sleep and now he's mad. So now he's back to crying in his crib again and I don't know what to do. I'm just standing there with my hand on him gently patting him but he's in pain. I don't want to start our day and i'm stumped.

Came on here because I just need a break for a sec. ok, going back. feel terrible. poor kid. broke the gums yesterday so they are really trying to come out now

jaime

[jmosery]

well  its 5 am here and we are starting our day He cried for an hour and is not going to sleep. no point in letting him just cry. So i take him out of his room, stops crying, is smiling and no signs of pain. So was it his teeth or was 4am his time he wanted to wake up. Thats a 10 hour night. I dont know. but we are off to start the day and play

I dont get the point of people saying keep the room dark and all when the kid is cring for an hour and obviously NOT going back to sleep

would you ladies have done the same thing? its early

[mommytoben]

HELP!!!  I'm struggling with an early waker and getting more frustrated by the day.  I'm not sure what to do.  My son is 11 months old and has never been a good sleeper.  Well, I take that back.  He did well as a newborn up until about 4 months old.  From 4-9.5 months, I dealt with night wakings.  That improved only to have early wakings around 6ish.  That started to get earlier and now he is waking up around 4-4:30 ready to start the day.  I do bf him at that time because he's hysterical.  It calms him down and helps him go back to sleep, but when I try to put him back in his crib, he starts to cry again.  I have resorted to getting in his crib to calm him down and go back to sleep.  That's only worked a couple times.  I would do anything to have him wake for the day at 5 or 5:30.  While that may seem crazy to most people, I have accepted that time.  My son's naps are inconsistent as well so I can't even count on the same amount of sleep each day.  He is a happy baby and the lack of sleep doesn't seem to affect him on a regular basis.  I just want to make sure he's getting enough sleep for his growing brain!!! 

Here's our current schedule"
wake 4-4:30 bf
breakfast 7ish
nap 8:30 - 9:30, maybe 10 bf
lunch 12
nap 2-3 (sometimes only 30-45 minutes long) bf
dinner 5
bath/books/bf 6:30
bed 7

I'll take any advice I can get.  Hopefully I can recipricate.  Thank you!

[jmosery]

Hey girls

ME AGAIN call be obsessive but I just can't stop thinking about our issues. I just feel like its all unfair. LOL

Ok, so Mikey got up at 4am hysterical. Cried for an hour and at 5 I couldn't take it anymore and started our day. I fed him at 6 and he was falling asleep. I put him in bed and I went back to bed. At 7:50 I woke up and forgot I had to pick my housekeeper up at the bus, so I had to WAKE MIKEY. he was sound asleep at 8am. So i'm thinking we are starting our day at 8am today. I dont know

but what got me thinking is that yesterday I was ALSO up at 4am and today at 4am with the crying. He isn't hungry, just waking up crying and he was waking at 4am when I was putting him down those couple days at 5:30. so...

he would wake at 4 when we put him down at 5:30, 6(yesterday), 7:15(saturday night). I'm afraid 4am waking is becoming a habit. and i'm not sure what to do. I'm going to see what happens tomorrow and if it happens again tomorrow, its obviously habit and intervention is going to happen. Dont know what except to NOT pick him up under no circumstances and just do sshh/pat for as long as it takes even if he cries for 2 hours. any other suggestions for extending sleep anytime before 5:30am???

MOMMYTOBEN- my initial thought when looking at your schedule is that your little one is not sleeping through the night because he may not be getting a good sleep in during the day. I know you said that he doesn't "act" tired and cranky but it seems like he's only getting 1.5 hours of sleep a day, maybe 2 and it isn't even in one shot. I think that maybe if you work on the naps, and either do ONE LONG one of 2-2.5 hours or two naps of an hour to 1.5 hours.

maybe getting the naps consistant too can help. I dont know if thats the "right" answer but its what immediately popped out at me. I know when my little one doesn't nap well, early wakings are going to happen and sometimes night wakings.

[mommytoben]

Could somone tell me how to post pics and tickers or direct me to a thread where I can learn?  Thank you so much! 

Jaime - thanks for your suggestion about the naps.  Can you give me some advice on how to extend them?  He used to wake up at the 30-34 minute mark so I would go in and soothe him and he would sleep longer.  Well, now there is no consistency so I can't be proactive about it (otherwise I would be in there watching him sleep the whole time - waiting for him to stir).  I agree that he is overtired though.  He woke at 4:30 today.  I waited until 5:15 to go in.  He fell back to sleep while bfing, but then he screamed when I tried to put him in his crib.  I even got in the crib which has worked a couple times before.  NOT TODAY!  He continued to scream at which point I also started to bawl.  That made him cry harder - then I cried harder.  We were a mess.  So I put him down for a nap at 9.  He only slept until 10:15.  I am crying again.  He's as happy as can be playing right now.  I don't know what to do.  I feel hopeless.  I feel like a terrible mom in so many ways.

I've been trying to read up on this thread so I can get to know you all, but with Ben not sleeping, I don't have time!  So please forgive me for my "all about me" posts thus far.  I will try during Ben's next nap...hopefully!  Thanks!

[jmosery]

MOMMYTOBEN- I'm not sure how to extend naps with an 11 month old. Have you posted on the toddler board? i believe their is a board for questions on sleep issues with toddlers. You can do the PU/PD method which sounds like it might be good for you. their is also a board for that.

do you breast feed when he doesn't stop crying? you say that he woke up at 4:30 and then went back to bed. did you go in or he went back to bed by himself? at 5:15 was he crying or playing? did you just pick him up to breastfeed when he was crying?

just trying to get an idea

jaime

[Ali's mum]

ALRIGHT LADIES... looks like i am the moderator of this thread now, as i had a pre-tty darn successful night last night.  i shall cast out solutions to all problems 

jaime!  you are having the same thing happen to you that i've been battling... it's not early wakings, it's habitual wakings!  we gotta nip that mikey in the bud and quick!  he knows that mom is up for a party at these ungodly hours, all i have to do is stack on a good show.  This is why i had to explore pu/pd for the first time, and man has it seemed like a disasterous approach.  i'm only on day 3 of it (lol - expert now), and i can see a glimmer of light through the chaos.  Ali has been waking around 2am and 4:30am consistently since we started this thread.  last night i woke up at 1am (ok, the cat woke me up) and i thought i might as well try W2S.  he never fully woke up and stayed down until his 4:30 shift.  When that came up, hubby tackled the pu/pd newly armed with the fresh read in his brain - took only 18 minutes to get him down.  i imagine tonight will go a little better and we have a digression to look forward to.  keep in mind that our lovely little Mikey is SPIRITED... you need to have the firmest of all routines!  no room for error!  is that right?  ok, getting carried away now, that might be for grumpies...

bens mom, if you take it just one page at a time and work through this thread, you will find all of our trials and tribulations with the same issues - although yours is a few months older so we aren't quite sure how the age adaptations go.  one thing i do know is that you have to fix the daytime routine before you go anywhere near the night time issues.  you sound like you have an extremely overtired lo there, and once those daytime naps get fixed you will probably have a much easier time with the night sleeping.  i'm not sure with toddlers, i think it's the same, but babies natural clock seems to be around 7am for a start to the day.  that means forcing yourself to get up and wake him up no matter what happened during the night - uggh!  ben shouldn't NEED any food at 4 am, it's just the easiest way to try get him back to sleep - i know, it's such an easy trap to fall into and so tough to break!  so you are already in hell, might as well make it worse by not caving in for a feed and pushing it through to 7am - then he'll REALLY be hungry!  start each day off on the best foot that you can and be the boss of his entire day.  if he's eating well, then getting the right amount of A time in, he should then be exhausted and ready for a nap - if you can't read his cues, then do it by time (which i'm not sure how long an 11 month goes for A time before a nap is needed).  when that magical time comes when he stays down for a nap, don't let him sleep through the next feed - wake him up and do it all over again!  it will be like groundhog day and it's worth it... by the way, I'M THE ONE who does all the crying and tempertantrums on this thread, i know exactly how you feel with the frustration... eventually that turns into determination when you realize that someone HAS TO DO SOMETHING TO STOP THIS INSANE CYCLE!!!!

Where's that Brooke at?

[Ali's mum]

jaime, one more thing:  this surprises me, because i am in charge of Ali, he's my job.  i'm the one he looks to for food, comfort, everything except loads of fun - i've stumbled across the fact that it does not work for me to do the night time coaxing back to sleep.  i think that i fill so many roles for Ali, that he has loads of expectations about what i *should* be doing for him, but when dad comes in, he responds really well to his attempts.  it's like Ali says "oh, dad wants me to go back to sleep i think", but with me he says "are you gonna whip out them boobs? how about change my still dry nappy? you could always give me a little rock or a walk around too..." in my desperate attempts to just have him go to sleep.  will your DH be on board to give it a shot?  for the sake of his ragged wife who is getting deeper wrinkles by the day?  that works for my husband = hair all blown out, big black bags under the eyes, ever-deepening wrinkles, i ask him "is this really what you want your wife to look like?", he jumped in pretty quickly once his imagination started toying with the idea of it getting worse...

~kriddy~

[jmosery]

KRIDDY- i'm hesitant to try PU/PD at all. i dont know if you were suggesting that or not but its definetly not for Mikey. I saw it today when i took him out while he was crying. all hell broke loose. I think shh/pat is it with some walk in/walk out which is what i've been doing. I'm going to try and get DH to do it tomorrow as he wakes at 4:30 for work anyways so maybe he can at least do the first 1/2 hour. since he's getting up. But you agree that i should definetly not faulter and not take him out to play anymore right? even if that means him crying for over an hour? i think its habit and no way can i have that.

Way to go on DH and you guys getting back on track. thats great.

[mommytoben]

do you breast feed when he doesn't stop crying? you say that he woke up at 4:30 and then went back to bed. did you go in or he went back to bed by himself? at 5:15 was he crying or playing? did you just pick him up to breastfeed when he was crying?

Jaime - I usually just wait until he's crying hysterically.  Unfortunately, my husband would like me to let him cry indefinitely.  He says all his coworkers say "it works".  We are not in agreement on that.  So I lay there nervously waiting for the terrible crying.  When I go to him, he is very upset but happy to see me.  I just pick him and he feverishly looks for the breast.  This is his best bf of the day.  He falls asleep bfing but won't let me put him back to bed.  I don't even change his diaper at that time in fear that I will wake him more.  There was one day when he was able to put himself back to sleep without intervention.  It took 45 minutes though and my husband holding me back.  On that day, he was "talking" sweetly to himself at 5:15.  If he has enough sleep, he does that.  If not, he's crying hard.  Needless to say, he's usually crying hard when he wakes up.  I hope that answers your questions and gives you more info.  Lately, the routine is wake up and cry between 4:15 and 4:30 - crying until I go in and get him.  So frustrating.  It's definitely becoming a habit.

 

bens mom, if you take it just one page at a time and work through this thread, you will find all of our trials and tribulations with the same issues - although yours is a few months older so we aren't quite sure how the age adaptations go.  one thing i do know is that you have to fix the daytime routine before you go anywhere near the night time issues.  you sound like you have an extremely overtired lo there, and once those daytime naps get fixed you will probably have a much easier time with the night sleeping.  i'm not sure with toddlers, i think it's the same, but babies natural clock seems to be around 7am for a start to the day.  that means forcing yourself to get up and wake him up no matter what happened during the night - uggh!  Ben shouldn't NEED any food at 4 am, it's just the easiest way to try get him back to sleep - i know, it's such an easy trap to fall into and so tough to break!  so you are already in hell, might as well make it worse by not caving in for a feed and pushing it through to 7am - then he'll REALLY be hungry!  start each day off on the best foot that you can and be the boss of his entire day.  if he's eating well, then getting the right amount of A time in, he should then be exhausted and ready for a nap - if you can't read his cues, then do it by time (which i'm not sure how long an 11 month goes for A time before a nap is needed).  when that magical time comes when he stays down for a nap, don't let him sleep through the next feed - wake him up and do it all over again!  it will be like groundhog day and it's worth it... by the way, I'M THE ONE who does all the crying and tempertantrums on this thread, i know exactly how you feel with the frustration... eventually that turns into determination when you realize that someone HAS TO DO SOMETHING TO STOP THIS INSANE CYCLE!!!!

Kriddy - I completely agree that he does not NEED to bf that early.  I totally do it to give him what he's looking for and calm him down.  I know I need to stop.  Do you think that is why he's waking?  So you are saying to start his day at 7...what do I do when he wakes up at 4 then?  Should we just stay in his room until 7?  As for naps, I am able to read cues - I do put him down at the appropriate times - he just won't sleep very long.  Sometimes he'll do great - sleep for at least 1.5.  Then other times, he's up at the 45 min. mark.  It's SOOOO inconsistent!  That's what throws the whole schedule off.  I never know how long he'll sleep.  I will take a look at some other threads.  Thanks for the tip.

I've been crying all day.  I'm getting worried about my mental health!!!  YIKES!  Is it sleep deprivation or something more?  I'm just not sure.  I'm so frustrated.  Ben's first nap today was an hour and 10 minutes.  I thought for sure it would be longer because he slept for only 9.5 hours last night and was up at 4:30.  Maybe I put him down too late.  I waited until 9.  Could that be why?  He's napping again and has been at it for about 15 minutes now.  I'm always so anxious during nap time because I never know when he'll wake up.

Thanks for your help ladies.  BTW, my name is Dawn.  I'm 31 and Ben is 11 months old.  My dh is Scott (33).  I've been married for almost 5 years now.  In my heart, I want another child, but with the current situation, we are very reluctant.  I do stay at home.  I am still bfing exclusively.  Ben eats table foods rather well and he really is a sweet baby - great personality.  I just wish his sleeping was under control.  Okay, enough about me.  Thanks again.

~Dawn

[Ali's mum]

exactly - stick with what works for Mikey with wi/wo and sh/pat, just get hubbie to do it instead of you!  Ali was crying for 2.5 hours the night before last, this is the hardest part!!!  getting up to play at that time is not reasonable, which is why it's turned into a bad habit - mikey is expecting that now, so he will put up a big fuss when you change the rules on him to go back to sleep instead.  it's practically the foundation of the BW method: look into your future days, months, years - do you want things to be easier in the immediate situation which is where AP comes from?  or do you want to make the hard choice of short term NIGHTMARE in the interest of shaping the long term towards being good?  is say no more play time!  mikey, you are waking at the same time no matter what time we put you to bed!  this is habitual waking and dammit, we're gonna stop it!!!

see what happens when i get only 5 hours of sleep in a row?  gimme 8 and then i want Bush on the horn... 

~kriddy~

bensmom, we're posting at the same time!  i think if he wakes up crying hard, that means he's still tired - when he wakes up gently, he's well rested.  you should print off the FAQ for your husband regarding be tempted to leave your lo to cry it out (CIO).  your situation is at a critical point, poor dawn - you MUST find the time to read the BW books starting with #1, in order to learn the very basic foundations of the entire method.  i did this by handing a screaming baby to my husband and sat down to read and place post it notes - every chance you get, read some more of it.  you will learn what ben's temperment is, where you may have gone wrong in the earliest months, what to do about it.  book #3 (BW solves all your problems) is sort of the "oh my god, we have a problem" book that i'm currently attached to, don't know anything about he second book. 

45 minute wake up is the natural clock rearing its head, he needs help to drift back into his sleep, but it seems there are many many issues to tackle that are all affecting eachother - it's certainly no where near hopeless, it but the books might speak more clearly to you as a first course?  what do you guys think?  this moderator stuff is for the birds, i suck at it!  lol...

~kriddy~

[jmosery]

We're all posting at the same time.

KRIDDY- you are right, its definetly habit and tonight it ends

DAWN- what time do you put him to bed? he was up from 4:30-9 this morning? i'm not sure if that is too long. when he wakes at 4:30, I wouldn't just let him cry alone, I would either do ssh/pat, pu/pd, walkin/walk out. I would look at all of them, figure out which one would be best for your little one. i would start implementing the same routine for naps and nighttime

when Mikey wakes from a nap happy then i know he's had enough. if he's crying, then i know he's still tired and I do my best with ssh/pat to get him back to sleep. i seem to give up though and i think he's picking up on that. need to get more kahoonas

have you worked on settling him without picking him  up. It took about a week for mikey to get used to ssh/pat but it works. anything you try you have to be ready for a rough couple days. I would overhaul it all at once like KRIDDY suggested. Might as well make changes together.

I think KRIDDY is right. I would definetly get the book Basics from beyond infancy to toddlerhood. here is the amazon link to it but i've seen it in my library and bookstores

http://www.amazon.com/Whisperer-Solves-Problems-Teaching-Questions/dp/B000FTBPQE/sr=1-3/qid=1169495123/ref=sr_1_3/103-8467330-3074224?ie=UTF8&s=books

but i would start implementing a schedule, even be little firmer on times in the beginning. no more breastfeeding or picking them up(unless doing pick up/put down). try to extend naps, which is important because if they aren't well rested then they are just going to fall apart as we all know.

hang in there.

jaime

[texasmom]

Here I am!!     Kriddy, you are too funny.  Got the visual of the hair, bags, etc...  Cracks me up. 

ANYWAY, I do not have time to write, but I sooo wish I did. 

Kathleen,
How is Bethany?  That is AWFUL.  Poor thing.  I hope she is better.  I bet you all are exhausted. 

Hello, mommytoben, welcome to our dreadful little club!!  Just kidding! 

My aunt is coming to visit me from Vegas today - she'll be here for a week.  Coming to see the Collinator.    She will be at my house (plane has landed) in 45 min!  EEK!  Still have to clean the bathroom and pay the bills. 

SOOO... if you don't hear from me, that is why.  I feel so behind! 

FYI...  We're doing two naps a day, bedtime at 7, and wake ups are all different.  Today was 5:45. 

Want to talk to you all soon!