Author Topic: 18mo waking and screaming?????  (Read 1331 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline maggie2

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 63
  • Posts: 3208
  • Location: Northeast, US
18mo waking and screaming?????
« on: January 08, 2007, 13:07:02 pm »
For the past couple of weeks, ds has been waking very early or sometimes in the middle of the night, screaming and crying.  He tends to settle very quickly, unless it's within an hour of wake-up time, then he's usually up for good. 

I have gone into his room a couple of times to make sure he's alright, and he' lying down, like hes sleeping still, but talking in his sleep?  Usually if I just leave him or put my hand on his back, he will stop within a few seconds.

I"m wondering what this is - he's never really had a problem with teething before, so I don't think it would be related to getting any teeth.  Do you think he's dreaming?  I"m concerned about the early wake-up though because he seems to be getting up earlier and earlier after one of these "episodes".  Maybe I should try wake to sleep?

thanks for any input or sharing of your own experiences!
Maggie

Offline imsmum

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 36
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 806
  • Location:
Re: 18mo waking and screaming?????
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2007, 15:20:25 pm »
First you might want to rule out ear infection, teething or illness.  I don't think the waking within the first 2 or 3 hours after bedtime is dreaming since the sleep pattern for lo's that age is to go into a deep non  REM sleep for the first few hours of the the night with lighter and REM (dreaming) sleep occuring primarily in the second half of the night.

What is his schedule like?  Any changes in his routine lately?

Offline maggie2

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 63
  • Posts: 3208
  • Location: Northeast, US
Re: 18mo waking and screaming?????
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2007, 16:08:17 pm »
Here's our routine:

6:30am wake and cup of milk
7:30 breakfast
11:00 or 11:30 lunch, then down for nap - he'll sometimes sleep only 1 hour, but usually sleeps until at least 1pm
1:00 or 1:30 wake and snack
3 or 4pm snack
6pm dinner with milk
6:45 bath then bed at 7pm.

the reason for the early lunch time is because we've switched to only one nap (this has been a couple of months though - but he is still so tired around 11am, so I've kept it the same).

I'm thinking that maybe he's still reeling from the holidays.  I'm also going to try and get a doctor's appt. today just to check him out.  His cousin has strep throat, so I want to rule that out (plus ear infections like you suggested).

Also, the early wake time has been happening anywhere between 5 and 6am.   that's interesting what you said about the sleep pattern and waking earlier in the night.  When he does wake, it's usually before midnight (again, going to sleep around 7-7:30), so he's not cycling through REM stages at that point?  I had never heard that before...

anyway, thanks for replying!

Maggie

Offline imsmum

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 36
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 806
  • Location:
Re: 18mo waking and screaming?????
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2007, 18:36:58 pm »
Maggie---The deep sleep usually happens for the first 2 to 3 hours after that they cycle out to a lighter sleep.  When my dd transitioned to one nap she would, like clock work, cry out when she cycled out of deep sleep into a lighter sleep after 3 hours but if I went quickly in before she was fully awake and put a hand on her then she wouldn't fully waken and settled back in.  The wakings later in the night were harder to deal with, unfortunately.

Given your lo's schedule, the early wakings and the fact that he's transitioned to one nap a few months  ago makes me think that the problem is that you actually need to push the nap later.  He has only 4.5 to  5 hours before wakeup and nap and most lo's around your ds's age need about 5.5 to 6.  the fact that he only sleeps one hour occasionally also makes me think he needs a later nap.  I read in one of the sleep books that the ideal nap time is the halfway mark of night sleep moved forward 12 hours ie.  if he sleeps 11 hours from 7:30 to 6:30 the ideal nap time is 1 o'clock (5.5 hours) so you may want to try to move the nap slowly closer to that mark.

I know it's hard when they're tired and it seems counterintuitive but it's like that post on the general sleep board about how Tracy solved 45 minute naps--you actually have to push naps back so they are tired enough that they will take a long restorative nap.

Even if he gets a 2 hour nap it may still be too early because he is then not sleeping again in the evening until 6.5 hours after nap wakeup, if not more.  That is probably too long an afternoon A time and he is overtired at bed.  With my dd if she was overtired at bedtime regardless of the length of her nap that day we would get night wakings.  Most lo's do better with a slightly shorter afternoon A time than morning ie. 5 to 5.5 hours.   

What I would suggest is to move bedtime at least 30 minutes earlier to see if that helps with the night wakings and early wakeups.  The increased (and better) sleep at night should help your son be able to move his nap back.  I would try it in 15 minute increments every week to see how he tolerates it.

Frances--Actually night terrors, conversely, only happen within the first couple hours after falling asleep since they are when your lo transitions between sleep cycles when she is  in a deep sleep.  But you are right, there is a lot of research showing that night terrors improve substantially when bedtimes are moved earlier.  (see Dr. Greene's website, for example) 

I recently bought a really good book call "Better Sleep for your Baby and Child"  by the neurologist who heads up the Sleep Disorder clinic here at the world renowned Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto.  Not a sleep training manual but some excellent, reader friendly information about children's sleep, if you were interested in reading more about the physiology of sleep.

HTH 

Offline maggie2

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 63
  • Posts: 3208
  • Location: Northeast, US
Re: 18mo waking and screaming?????
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2007, 01:03:41 am »
Thanks for all the advice!  I am definately going to try and move the nap time back a bit and see if that helps.  I have thought that the span of time between when he wakes from his nap and bedtime is way too long!  I put him to bed a bit earlier tonight and he went right down, so we'll see if we have a REALLY early wake-up or a better night's sleep:)...

ALSO, it turns out he has a bit of an ear infection:(  So that's not helping and I'm sure was the reason for some of the overnight screaming - poor little guy.  I'm glad I took him in - sometimes it's so difficult to tell if something is really wrong - you try to explain to the doctor the symptoms - "well, he has no fever, and is acting alright really...  but he put his hand on the back of his neck in a weird way today, and he's a little bit whiney..."  How do doctor's deal with us, huh?  It's a good thing God created the "mother's instinct"...  even if we don't know what the heck we're talking about!

We'll see how things go over the next couple of days...  if they don't improve, you'll be hearing from me again...  muuuhaaaaaaaahaaaaaa!

Offline maggie2

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 63
  • Posts: 3208
  • Location: Northeast, US
Re: 18mo waking and screaming?????
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2007, 13:49:46 pm »
frances - also make sure she doesn't have an ear infection or something that's causing her pain - your description of what your dd does sounds much like what ds was doing - all except for the timing.  When we saw the doc yesterday, he said that most of the time, the screaming in the middle of the night is very typical of ear infections.  maybe that's common knowledge ::) but luckily we haven't had to deal with many ear infections, so I wouldn't have known.

Ds was also seeming to be asleep and screaming...

Offline imsmum

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 36
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 806
  • Location:
Re: 18mo waking and screaming?????
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2007, 14:44:18 pm »
Maggie--Too bad about the ear infection--hopefully the meds will do the trick.  I would also do the early bedtime just for a few days in conjunction with pushing the nap back--this combo worked well for us, so when you move the nap back for the second 15 minute increment you move the bedtime back to your normal time--hmm, hope you undrstand what I mean.  If not or if things aren't working out let me know and I'll try to be a bit more coherent..must be the evil laugh that has me rattled..

Frances--it may be a nightmare but since you said it happened more frequently with teething and overtiredness it may just be a problem transitioning between sleep cycles.  As you said it doesn't matter much since you've found an effective way to deal with them.