Support for Mum's of LO's 16-19months with sleep issues

[Zaiby]

Meg - He isn't in daycare at the moment, but may start 2 mornings a week from 9:15 - 12:15...So nap will have to be when we get home - which we live close by, so should be by 1 the latest..
No yesterday he took a 2.5hr nap at 11:30 - 2:00 - bedtime at 7 woke today at 5

If he initially wakes at around 5/5:30 and goes back to sleep and is up again  6:30ish or later, he won't catnap, and then we do one long nap - which can range from 1hr 15min - to 2hr 30 min...and this usually falls about 4.5/5hrs after wake up..and then 5hrs to bedtime - is that right?
So we go back and forth...depending on what time he wakes up..

Today was very strange.  He woke at 5 (bedtime last night 7 - so again 10hrs), moaned and whined for 30 minutes - (normally he's ok to stay in there for awhile), I'm sick myself and DH has had the night shift and wanted to know what to do - I was so tired and frustrated that I told him to give him a little milk and put him back - so he changed him, gave him milk and put him back - this was at about 5:45 - he moaned on and off until 6:20 at which point he finally drifted back to sleep and was still sleeping at 8:00
I woke him up because then ofcourse the whole day would have been thrown off...
SO now he's asleep again at 12:30 for his nap..(we had a very busy morning)..

I don't want to start the milk habit again, but..
Oh and wi/wo won't work I don't think - I've tried before and he just gets more and more wound up..I guess I could keep trying that, but he is very spirited hysterical..

So any thoughts?
Zaibun

[JoC]

Hi Zaibun,
Theo wakes early and i too want to keep off giving milk this early. I hae been doing wi/wo for about 10 days now, and the last 32 mornings he has woken 5 ish and moaned but then gone back to sleep til 6 when he hears dp get up. I too have probs with wi/wo as if i go in too often, he goes absolutly mental, so i leave him for a minute or two between, and he will kind of moan off and on eventually.

Jo

[PeepersMom]

WI/Wo won't do here, either.  I think, although your nights are short, he seems to be getting enough sleep.  Your timing of everything is right.  Personally the cat nap never worked for us when transitioning to 1 nap.  You might find that if you put him on 1 nap and keep him up a full 5 hours maybe, 5.5 he will sleep a little later in the morning.  Did you see the thread on "how I fixed an early riser"  or something like that? It is a sticky.  I think that is what helped the original poster. She ended up keeping her lo up for 7 or 8 hours before his first nap until finally he started to sleep later in the morining.  YIKES

PJ was a spaz to get to sleep for his nap. He was pretty well overtired and just woke from a 1.5 hour nap.  Which isn't enough in my opinion, but I am hoping that if I just keep consistant w/it it will eventually shake out.  There really was a time when his norm was 2 hours for his nap.  I cant believe it at this point.

I don't think that giving him milk 1 day is going to have any long term effects, personally.  I also doubt that him sleeping past 8 am is going to be the norm, either, but I hope that gave you a chance to sleep in a little.  

Have you thought that he wakes early b/c he is hungry?  When does he eat last before bedtime?

Meg

[Zaiby]

Jo - so you don't give milk anymore?  And he has learnt to go back to sleep? 6 is much better than 5!

Meg - No, I don't think he'll be sleeping past 8 very often - this was a one off I think...
Sleeping in was a plus though

I have thought about just going to one nap - but what happens when he wakes early and doesn't go back to sleep?  5hrs later would put him at 10:30!  Which would make for a loooong afternoon - he doesnt' catnap in the afternoon for some reason and then I'ld have to put him to bed super early...and wake early etc...the cycle would continue..Unless miraculously he would start waking up later on his own..
He has a bottle during wind down (his only one of the day and I can't get myself to stop it And he just looks forward to it I think) so he's pretty tannked up - I don't think he's hungry, but who knows?

He did nap 2 hrs today - so again my quesition - set bedtimes/nap times, or go on A times which means almost different bedtimes/naptimes everyday...

I do hope PJ does well for you tonight - I go bonkers when R only has 1.5hrs nap...
Zaibun

[PeepersMom]

Zaibun - my advice to your ultimate question is this - put R on a schedule.  When PJ first transitioned to 1 nap I did the same as you. He sleeps later than R so my thoughts were - if he is awake before 630 am he gets 2 naps, after 630am gets 1.  Well that didn't last.  Then my limits turned to 1 nap only but not before 1130 no matter what time he woke and not later than 1230 to preserve a 7 pm bedtime.  Just the other day I was given the advice to stick him on a noon schedule no matter what time he wakes and just adjust the bedtime based on how well he naps.

So here's what i would do for R if I were you and if I were consistent.  HA  No matter what time he wakes put him down at 1130am for nap.  When he takes a short nap put him down at 6-630 pm for the night.  When he has a decent nap put him down at 7 for the night.  He tends to nap well so hopefully the transition will be easier for you.  1030 is too early IMHO for 1 nap, just like you were saying. That is why my limit seems to be 1130.  But again, PJ's earliest wakings are usually 6 and they are rare.  Most of the time he is up between 630 - 730 so the 1130-1230 nap start time works well for us.

There are a lot of ideas on how to keep R up during the morning on the Nap board on the 2-1 transition sticky thread.  But what works best is snacks, a walk in the fresh air,  NO CAR RIDES AT 10 am!! and lunch definitely before the nap.  For the LONGEST time PJ would be very tired around 10 am and I would try to offer cold water and a snack.  he would be cranky and refuse.  But by 1030 I did get a little snack in him and that would perk him up for the next hour  Then we would do a lunch and nap soon to follow.  Also he would get cranky around 4 pm and we made it through to an early bedtime.  Eventually the 10am crankies went away and the 4 pm a little later.  Most people find these crankies w/their LO during the transition.

I think you will be VERY surprised how well and how long he can last in the morning.  And I really do feel that before you know it he will be sleeping later in the morning.  REALLY I do.

Just my 2 cents from my many months on the 2-1 thread. 

Meg

[Zaiby]

Thanks Meg -
It's worth a try, I've tried everything else
I'm just afraid of having one overtired baby and crappy naps if he's up from 5 or 5:30 to 11:30...What do I have to lose at this point?

U r right, bottom line is I have to stick with one plan and stay with it - I guess it takes ages for these habits to change..

Lets see what tomorrow brings - I'm off to bed myself so at least I can get some sleep and feel better..

Thanks for the advice -

[PeepersMom]

There are tons of stories on these boards that drive me nuts b/c one little change makes a huge difference for those babies.  But you know what?  There are just as many stories as mine where I try everything over and over again and when I finally just stick w/a plan it might not necessarily work perfectly but at least it doesn't drive me insane like switching up every other day does.  Also, you have to think that maybe R just wants you to stick to a plan. 

Try your hardest to stick with what ever plan you make for at least 2 weeks.  Seriously.  He is an older baby now and you will need to give it an honest try.

PJ was up early again this morning so we will be doing the same as you.  somehow trying to make it close to 12.  Just like yesterday.  He did have a 11.25 hour night again which in the big scheme is ok but for him it is about 45-60 min short, considering his naps are also 45-60 min short we are 90-120min short for the day!!!!!!!! for the past 6 weeks.  And it is noticeable, imo.

good luck, hope you had a good sleep and things are looking up this morning.  Is dp supportive (I hope?)
Meg

[Zaiby]

Yeah Dp is supportive - in fact he's been sleeping in the guest room with the monitor so I can get some rest..

Today R woke up at 6:30 - well that is when we heard him and went down at 11:30 - I mean crashed. 
I don't think he could have made it any later - he's been super cranky all morning.
He's not well today and luckily enough we had a dr appointment scheduled - turns out he has another ear infection so we're trying another round of antibiotics -

I think R has been overtired his whole life and short changed on sleep - my guess is he just got used to it becuase most of the time he's a super happy baby - clingy, but happy..

SO what time did PJ nap today? DOes he go down well?

I'll stick with 11:30 as the abosolute minimum but would hope for closer to 12 (when he's feeling better)

[PeepersMom]

  Did you say SIX THIRTY!!!!!!  WOW What a boy!!!!!!!!!

PJ goes down for his naps usually quite easily.  I put him down at 1140.  He was up at 6am again so didn't quite make it to 12, but closer.  Hope he naps well.

Yes, those first few weeks of 1 nap they tend to crash.  It is ok, though.  Stick with it.  I think this might be an answer for you.

Sweet of DP to sleep w/the monitor.

[aidenmc]

I am not sure if I did the right thing.  Aiden had started sleeping a little better. 3 nights ago he slept through from 7 to 5, then 6:50 to 6:00 (with a few tiny wake-ups, dh only went in once for a couple of minutes). He was napping better too. Then yesterday, after his 11 hour night (these are virtually nonexistant) he was frustrated in the morning. He screamed and cried when I dropped him off at school and they called after an hour because he wouldn't settle. They said he was touching his mouth a lot. He was okay at home but not much frustration tolerance. He took a 1hr40m nap. Last night he was up a lot until about midnight then managed to settle himself when he woke after that. He was up for the day at 4:45.

This morning he was still kind of grumbly. I kept him home because we had to visit his older brotehr's class. Then I went to get groceries. In the car he started screaming and crying out of the blue. After a while I turned back home and he started to fall asleep. I tried to keep him awake till we got home, but he was pretty tired and upset. I decided to give him some meds (I noticed his bottom tooth popped through overnight) and a little bf and he was out. The thing is, this was at 11:00! He is never down for a nap this early and I really don't know what it will do to his day, especially if he doesn't nap long. Even when he wakes early he has to wait until after 12 to nap due to his schedule. It can be hard to get food into him and get him down at times, but that is what we have been doing.

Any thoughts on what i should do about bedtime?

It is hard not to think there is something really wrong with him. I spoke to the principal at his Montessori school and said I think the problem is teething and she seemed to think it has been going on rather a long time. I know he is in and out of SA these days and yesterday was one of them, but it's hard not to think it is a bit excessive when they call home because he won't settle down. Anyway, I am having one of those 'is he normal?' days I guess. Thanks for listening!

[daisymelan]

I haven't been keeping up with this thread the past few days, but I wanted to quickly post this.  The night wakings were continuing as usual, but dwindling.  As most of the mom's here have noticed, ds was teething bad.  There were 2 that are really close to breaking through and one broke throug yesterday.  But I started using Highland Teething tablets 2 days ago.... and lo and behold, last night he slept all the way through.

I doubt that all his wakings were because of teething, and maybe this one night was a fluke, but the work dp has been doing, plus the tablets got my little prince through the night.   

[aidenmc]

Hi Jodie,

I was just wondering how you used the tablets. I know you can give 2-3 or if they are not sleeping 2 every hour up to 6 hours. Did you try this? I know that with my lo, once he starts waking a little because of teeth it is a slippery slope he quickly slides down because he gets overtired. That overtiredness one is tricky too because it can be so hard to see the signs!

[PeepersMom]

Becky,

I would put Aiden down early tonight if he doesn't nap well.  I don't know how he does w/early bedtimes, but some moms put them down as early as 530pm.  PJ can't do that even w/a short nap = he'd be up too early in the morning, but some babies really respond well to a super early bedtime.

I bet he is teething.  Really, for PJ when he was first getting his molars (they are only partially in) he was up for breif call outs all night long for several nights.   Nothing lengthly but stll it definitely disrupted his sleep.  They are still slowly coming through, so I guess the poor kid is getting used to it.

ALSO even though his sleep is fitful w/teething he does tend to sleep a little more.  Maybe, just maybe, he is going to sleep a little better for you right now? 

Interesting spin the Montessori teacher had.  feels he hasn't been himself for a while now?  does he usually teeth very slowly?  I know PJ hasn't slept normally in 2 months and I think this time in their toddlerhood is sooooooo exciting and overwhelming that they might be 'too excited to sleep' as my siggy says.  I have been using this excuse for PJ for a very long time.  Too long IMHO.  He needs to get more sleep!

Also, can you remind me what you have tried to get Aidan to sleep later in the morning?  Or are you working on NW?  sorry this thread isn't exactly specific.  There are a lot of us with a lot of different issues.  PJ's sleep issue is taking forever to fall asleep at night and short naps.  So essentially cutting out 2 hours of sleep/day.  We are slowly getting better, I didn't do to much to fix anything, I don't know if it is fixed, he might just be onto a different phase right now! 

Meg

[daisymelan]

Becky, I started giving him 3 tablets, 4 times a day.  That's what it says you can give los under the age of two.  I'm gonna keep him on this routine until both teeth are all out.  I think just having it in his system is making the difference.

[aidenmc]

Hi again,

Well I am thinking of giving up the illusion of control! The night before last (when Aiden fell asleep at 11 - he slept for 1hr40m) He was asleep by 6:30. He fell asleep happily on his own. Well, starting at 9:30 he woke about 6 times, then was up at 5 for the day. I think the only reason he made it until 5 was because he was asleep so early (but then who knows). He didn't take very long to resettle but still!

Yesterday he had a nap of 1hr20m. I intended to get him to bed early again but he wasn't asleep until 7. DH actually had to go in and settle him to sleep as he got agitated. Perhaps he was overtired? Anyway, he woke briefly at 11 ish, but settled himself. Then I heard him chatting to himself at 2:30, he went back on his own again. He was up at 5:18.

Meg - I have tried all sorts of things to deal with the early wake-ups. MY parents keep saying I should keep him up later. to be honest last night I was really thinking about it. Most times he has a late night, though, he wakes earlier and still through the night. On the few occasions where he has slept until 6 (and not because he was up for 2 hours in the night) he would sleep through from about 7.

I really don't know what works with him, but I feel now like his nap is getting earlier and I could see everything getting shifted up. I did read the post where the mom put lo down for a nap really late and had an 8pm bedtime. I'm scareed to try it though. I keep thinking...once i get him rested (i.e. sleeping through regularly), then we can shft his schedule.

Jodi - I gave Aiden the tablets yesterday 4 X 3. Maybe that is why he slept through.  I will do it again today and see if it happens again. If this is the solution, he will be eating them until he is 12!