Support for Mum's of LO's 16-19months with sleep issues

[PeepersMom]

JoC sounds like you and I are dealing with the same thing.  Opposite days.  That is what I call them.  One day good, one day bad.  I posted for help from people w/experience fixing this stuff.

PJ didn't fall asleep last night until 830pm which of course made for a short night - awake at 630.  He is down for his nap now (went down at 1140)

I am just not sure what to do anymore other than just 'let it go'.  I try everything I can to get him to go to sleep at the same time every night (Roughly) but his asleep time varies by up to 2 hours.  Last night I rocked him for 45 min! to get him to go to sleep at a decent time.  Eventually I put him down and he still didn't fall asleep for an additional 45 min (830)

AAHHH

Every night I say "I am going to bed at 8!"  ha.

Meg

[JoC]

I know, what a quiz. Putting ds to bed half hour later for a few days to see if that extends sleep. He goes to bed no probs, but its the CONSTANT 4.45-5 am wake ups that seem unfixable. Not been feeding him til i get him up at 6 for 8 days now, no improvement. He just shrieks ans wails  til its 6 o clock. He is SOOO strong willed. Doing wi/wo drives him crazy, he goes mental.
A funny thing tho, i will give him water if he wakes, but in the last few months, he has stared to grab it off me, put it really close to his eyes so he can see inside the bottle (night light is faint), and then when he sees it is water, he throws it to the bottom of the cot and sreams blue murder!

Lets see what tonight brings....
Jo

[PeepersMom]

yeah, we can't do wi/wo.  My nerves won't cut it.  luckily for bedtime I found that he only cries as soon as I put him down and only for about a minute. I know I should be pleased w/this and if he doesn't fall asleep right away who cares?  well I care b/c he is consitantly falling asleep 1.5-2 hours after i put him down.  Unless he is on his exhausted day = on that day he falls asleep during the winddown, basically.  Anyway - can't do wi/wo with PJ. I might as well just stay in the room rocking him.  Or leave - which is how I found out he only cries a minute.  but I know that isn't the case for you.

Interesting he wants his milk.  Probably more comforting to him.

So you don't think he is hungry, do you?  I mean, sure he probably would drink all his milk if you gave it to him at 5 am.  He has been fasting for the night, but do you think that is why he is wakign htat early?

Have you tried wake to sleep or thought about trying it? I have never had the nerve, but apparently it works. 

I dodged a bullet today when he took a nice nap.  THANK GOD. 

So now I Have no idea what he'll do for bed tonight.\

meg

[JoC]

Hi Meg,
did do w2s, made no difference, did it for a week.  :oWhen i tell my mum about these things she says "Theo hasn't read that book!", NO KIDDING he hasn't!!
We had some success this morning, he woke at 5.30 and cried for about 2-3 mins, more moaning, so i left him, and he kind of drifted off, just ,moaning for 20-30 seconds or so, then woke again at 5.50 and started talking to himself, then full on screaming when he heard dp get up at 6. I count this as a major breakthrough, as we have had full on screaming all week, on waking and while i do wi/wo.
Lets see if it was just a one off. Good luck to you tonight too.

Jo x

[Zaiby]

Ok - I'm back for a  little more advice...

I had a thread going here on early riser/naps about our early waker and have gotten great advice -
I just want to know - how long will it take?  Will it change?  Or do we just have an early riser on our hands?

I've tried short am long pm naps, early bedtimes, later bedtimes, one nap, limiting nap times,leaving him in the crib until acceptable wake up etc.

But he still wakes between 5/5:30 most days...Sometimes he will go back to sleep for an hour or so after wake up, but not all the time...The most we get is 10 hrs at night and 2.5 naps..(and that's because I limit them most days) Is this enough???

Is there anything else to try?  Or just leave him be and eventually he'll start sleeping in?
It's so hard though because wake up times are inconsistent, so everyday is inconsistent..Bedtimes and nap times are all over the map because I'm going on A times at the moment...

Should I do set nap times/bedtimes?
Or go based on A times?  I just don't know anymore.
He may start pre-school soon from 9:15- 12:15 2 days a week- I'm worried about this as well - He'll be up awfully long until nap time...


Thanks for listening...
Zaibun

[PeepersMom]

JoC - I think that you might be on to something.  I think that we need to remember that BW techniques take a lot longer than CIO but the effects are much more long lasting and healthy.  PJ often wakes up early for a min or two and goes back to sleep.  It was months before he did this regularly.  But,luckily for us, he didn't scream. He usually wakes happy and will happily play in his crib for up to an hour if he wakes early.  I think you are on the right track.

Zaibun -  THere are definitely some babies that are 'early risers'.  How old is he?  How long has this been going on?  Sorry I forgot.  I think that if the MOST you can get out of him is 10 hours at night then you should let him sleep as much as he wants during the day.  Sure, it might ultimately be the cause of the shorter nights, but in the long run he is still getting the sleep he needs. I am inclined to think that  putting him on 1 nap will make him sleep longer at night.  But try to be consistent w/your plan.  It is the only thing that will help you keep sane, and will help him know what to expect.  I don't know what to say about preschool......yikes.

We continue to have screwed up sleep.  PJ fell asleep screaming last night at 745 and slept till 7am.  I tried to rock him a bit like I do every night and he just pushed off, rolled around on me, started crying, so I put him down.  He screeched, so I pick him up. Continues to cry.  What's up w/that?  So basically he just fell asleep crying.  I just put him down for a nap a noon.  (my new schedule) and just heard him call out at 1:05.  WHAT?? he hasnt done that in a month.  He usually sleeps 1h15 as his minimum.  I am bound and determined to leave him in the crib for 2 hours b/c I think that is the minimum acceptable.  The naps have always been our problem starter.  Crap nap = crap night = crap nap .. until somehow somewhere the cycle gets broken. 

I am so sad about this.

Meg



 

[Zaiby]

Meg - Riyan is 16 months old he has always been an early riser - never had more than 10/10.5 at night.(occasionally he did and that was only when I used to feed him upon wake and he'ld get maybe anther hour or so) .
This happened even when he was on 2 soild naps a day that were fairly scheduled...
I used to let him sleep as long as he wanted during the day, then thought maybe that was what was causing the short naps - but he has never really added on to the night..

Now that his A times have gotten longer, it's hard to fit in 2 good naps.  I could try just going with the one nap - but again the timing of that nap varies because of his wake up time..
And lately he's been going back and forth from 2 naps to 1.

I'm just as sad as you...I know he needs more sleep, and the inconsistentcies are driving me crazy - I never know how to plan for the next day because I have no idea what he will do.  My DH thinks I shouldnt' stress and just let him sleep when he wants to and stop obsessing..

I've been reading your other posts and have all of the same questions and concerns...Just know you are not alone..

Thanks
Z

[aidenmc]

Hi Zaibun,

Our lo is also an early riser and I tried everything. For a brief while it looked like he was lengthening his nights a little when he finally started falling asleep on his own and sleeping through the night. When he did wake he was happy to stay on his own for quite a long time. We were starting to feel sane! Now that things have gone to pot and he is napping poorly and waking again, we have the early mornings. Today he was up at 5:30 and happy. I count that as a good morning, especially seeing as he was up in the early part of the night, which is always a bad sign around here! Also I wouldn't wake him either during the day. My lo rarely manages a night longer than 10 hours and i would be happy if he would go 2.5 hrs consistently for his naps.

I am becoming more and more thankful that we have this site to commiserate on and share ideas. I know people probably think I am obsessing too about the sleep but we just want to solve the problems! This place at least helps me to not feel alone or completely crazy!

[PeepersMom]

HA so you can commiserate w/the crazy woman, huh?  not exactly the best company to keep!  lol

Our husbands are the same.  I honestly think it is b/c they see how we get so worked up over it.  And they want us to be happy.

I think if you read on the boards about the 2-1 switch you will find that a lot of babies sleep later in the morning after the switch.  I would recommend switching anc sticking to it, in my experience.

Also, the most recent advice I was given was to basically put PJ down for his 1 nap at the same time everyday. No matter when he wakes up.  Then adjust night time based on how poorly he slept for the nap.  Honestly, if I think back, he has always napped best if I put him down at 12:30. At least that is the time w/most consistency.  BUT then he will sleep too late in the day for me - even 2:30pm messes up his bedtime.  If he falls asleep anytime after 7:30 (7pm is better) it messes w/his night. He is *usually* a good night sleeper.

((hugs))

I am about to go delete my latest post.  It is just more ramblings from a desperate woman who can't accept defeat.  sigh

Meg

[JoC]

I am thinking i am destined never to get a longer sleep than 5ish. Theo is at nursery 5 days a week now (I'm covering a colleagues maternity leave) and he naps for about an hour, so therefore i think this is making him wake early.
WHY? Common sense says if you sleep less in the day , you must want to sleep longer at night.
I give up, at least he is sleeping thru til 5!!! With the occassional lie in til 6 
Oh dear, and  he had baked beans for tea at nursery...another windy night!

jo

[andibig]

Zaibun
its always the nap which messes it up for us .fortunately sasha is a pretty good napper.she was doing 2.5hrs when we transitioned to 1 nap.
we then hit a bout of NWs due to tummy bug,teething and a cold .took me almost 2 months to get completely rid of them (well if i'm honest DH to get rid of them).
unfortunately she then started waking early.it took me a while to work out it was the length of her nap causing the problem.shes now down to 2HRS and sleeps 11-11.5hrs per night.
it took at least 2-3 weeks to get there.
HTH
Andrea

[aidenmc]

I always know it will be a rough night if the nap was bad. Occasionally I am able to get Aiden back to sleep after he wakes early from a nap and sometimes it results in an extra longer one that helps him catch up. That is rare, though. I dream of 11+ hours of sleep at night for my lo! Today we were looking at 10.5 total for the day. Luckily I got lo back to sleep ( I think he is feeling sick - he has a cold, teething and some gas and screamed before his nap and last night) so he may make it to 11 or 11.5 for the day if I am really lucky! Funny how too long a nap cuts in on night sleep for some and too short a nap does the same! Someone's cruel joke!

[Zaiby]

You know, it helps knowing that I'm not alone...everyone I know here in town have lo's that sleep perfectly.  I mean one of the kids takes 3hr naps and sleeps 12-13 hrs at night..
Another friend complains how her's gets up at 7 and that is way too early for her
Sigh.
Not that I'm glad that you all are having sleep troubles, but sometimes it feells like my lo is the only one not sleeping! lol - of course this isn't true...

So, he took a 2.5hr nap today starting at 11:30..I'm doing bedtime at 7 at the latest...
However I must say that R does have a cold and is teething - but this has been going on all his life, so I don't think I can blame it on that..

I'll try and stick to the same plan - something has to work, right?
Zaibun

[aidenmc]

I know it may be strange to hear but I am happy to say that I think lo has a tummy bug on top of his teething and cold (or maybe his tummy is out of sorts as a result, or maybe it is a reaction to food/milk). He woke 1.5 hrs after going to sleep last night and screamed for over an hour. No patting, rubbing or anything would soothe him. He looked in pain but it is so hard to tell where! Apparently he cried on and off at preschool as well. But then again his nose was streaming and he was tired. Then for today's nap he did the same. He started off fussing and rolling around then screamed to the point where he just wanted to get up and out of his room. I know he was tired due to his bad night and early wake-up so it wasn't like he wasn't redy to sleep.

Anyway, I actually nursed him to sleep and back to sleep when he woke an hour later. Haven't done that in months! He had a large stinky poop after he woke and another during his bedtime routine. He went to sleep blissfully on his own tonight, without complaint, just soft sweet babbling! So...I am not happy that he is having to deal with all this discomfort and pain. Nor am I happy that it is so difficult to really know what is going on (he can only tell me so much), but I am glad that it is not simply a huge behavioural regression.

I am hoping his tummy will be relieved enough now to let him sleep decently tonight! I know it won't be smoothe sailing from here on in but small victories right?

[PeepersMom]

Becky don't worry about an occasional help to get him over a hump.  Honestly, I wish yesterday when PJ woke at 1h5 min I had gone in to rock him back to sleep.  I just wasn't sure it would work.  i was hoping he would just go back on his own.  Silly me.  If he does it again today you bet I will be in there rocking him.  I feel like when we are in the thick of an awful cycle SOMETHING has to give.  And he got a nice nap w/your help and it was a nice bedtime.  I hope he slept ok for you.

Zaibun - what time is his nap at the nursery? Is it the same time every day or do they put him down when he seems tired?  So he took 0 nap yesterday?  yuck

PJ was asleep at 640 pm last night but was up early (for him) at 6 am.  He isn't normally an early riser, so this kind of bugs.  So another 11 hour night.  Not bad, but now I have to get him to noon for a nap?  maybe 1145........we have another group this morning - this time just a storytime, but he'll be excited.  It is only 20 min of stories and songs.  We used to do these things almost daily and it never effected him, then Christmas came a long and groups and story times got put on hold.  So here we are back on track and ?? maybe he is over stimulated?  but I think maybe he'll just have to get used to it, as I cant' stay in the house all day every day.  I get bored!  and it is way too cold to go for walks.  boo hoo.

Meg