Toddler won't sleep

[frustratedmommy]

Help please....
Since having a new baby (now 5 months), and moving to a new house, (2 months), our 22 month old son is having huge sleep difficulty. He was sleeping through the night decently and since the new baby and move I think he might have developed some abandonment issues. I read Baby Whisperer and have been working at establishing trust again...but after 9 nights, it's still taking two hours for him to fall asleep at night and at least that, if any, at nap time! He is also up anywhere from 10-30 times a night....I'm exhausted! Seriously done in. We have no family near by and again I have a 5 month old who also needs care. I don't remember the last time I had more than 1 hour of consecutive sleep. I need to have some resolution.

At sleep time he jumps in and out of bed repeatedly. I put him back in with no talking or engaging and this will go on for close to two hours. How long to I fight with him to go down for a nap? I use the put down method and he will lay and talk, sing, kick the wall, play with his sheets etc. If I leave the room he will stand at his door and scream. I don't chitchat or engage him. He is also a Houdini...NOTHING keeps him in his room. He's mastered all the baby safety devices and is very strong physically. He can hop a baby gate in no time flat. At bedtime we do a repeat of all the above. We start our wind down at 6:30...bath, stories, and in bed by 7:30pm. But he's not sleeping until close to 9-10pm.

And then we have night waking where he's screams and calls for us....and then we start all over. I'm a yo yo between kids rooms...He wakes our 5 month old with his screaming and then I have to settle both of them. I'm starting to wonder if he's got something medically wrong with him. He's going to the doctors but nothing has ever been found before.....Again what am I doing wrong here?

[Ennypen]

Big big hugs xxxx

As a mom to a toddler who has some sleep difficulties I can understand how you are feeling xxxx

I have popped your post into the todder sleep board where you will see you are certainly not alone in what you are experiencing.. have a browse amongst the posts.. and we will see if we can help you in the meantime.
Could you possibly give us an idea of your daytime routine to help us see if theres anything we can pick up on...

Thanks xxx

Helen x

[frustratedmommy]

Okay....Normal routine.
7:00am awake, cuddle and have a few cheerios
8:00am breakfast
8:30am Play time
10:00am snack time
10:15am play time
12:00pm lunch
12:30pm Nap time
2:30pm arise, cuddle and have a snack
3:00pm play time
5:15pm dinner time
6:30pm wind down, bath stories etc
7:15-7:30pm bedtime

He's a great eater and plays quite well. He watches some cartoons and when it's not too cold we head outside. Since our sleep issues have started I make sure we are home before bed. My life is non-existent these days.

[Layla]

Hi there. I am sorry to hear you are having such a difficult time with your toddler.

Toddlers (well children in general) are very sensitive to changes and having a baby and moving to a new house is a very big change which most often results in sleep disturbances. I remember when Jasmine was born, Isabella refused to nap as well and she was only 14 months back then. We also had frequent night wakings & we were all exhausted. Do they share a room because you could try and put a white noise machine in the babies room to block out the crying. I had to do this and we have a fan running in Jasmine's room as Isabella often woke her from the screaming and crying as well. Humidifier is also another idea as white noise.

When the baby was asleep I made sure that I spent every minute with her, playing, reading books and in general making sure we were bonding again. When you have a baby they get the feeling that they are loosing you to someone else. Try and make bedtime ritual a nice one as well. Lots of cuddles and kisses and explain with every step what he will be doing next... I do this with Isabella "after a bath, we're going to read some books then go on the potty, and then lie down to sleep".

When he is up in the middle of the night, you will simply have to lead him back to bed every time. Say something like "Its still night time and you need to go back to sleep". You may feel like its never going to end but try to be consistent. He will eventually learn that no matter how many times he comes out, the only reaction he will get from you is taking him back. Try and not have a conversation with him - just simple things like "you need to sleep, its night time", or something along those lines. I would do the same for naps as well. I would do it for the duration of the nap because if you give up in 30mins, he will think thats the norm. You can tell him that he doesn't have to sleep if he doesn't want to but he is to stay in the room for some "quiet time" until you come to get him.

Have you tried maybe a reward system where he can get a sticker for every night he stays in his room and after 3 or so stickers you can give him a reward, like a new toy or a treat.

You might also want to introduce a night light with an alarm and explain to him that he is not to get out of bed until the alarm goes off in the morning.

In regards to the new room - have you tried asking him what he would like to do to make his room more comfortable? If he has a favourite cartoon character you could try and get some posters on the wall (or something) so that it is set up in an environment he's want to sleep in?

I would also bring the bedtime forward to 6.30 - if he hasn't napped for 9 days then he must be getting overtired and that also plays a factor.

If possible I would also try to get dh involved so that you can get some rest at night.

Sorry for the long post - hope some of these suggestions will be helpful to you
Let me know how everything goes
Layla

[frustratedmommy]

Thank you Layla for your reply! I really appreciate everything you wrote. We do lead him back everytime, unfortunately this has been going on for a good couple of months....

Do you think I just have a really stubborn child? Right now my husband is sitting at his door telling him to go to sleep, lay down and that's about it. He is laying in bed kicking his feet and singing...he's been in bed for an hour and a half...and he didn't nap today.....I tried the night light and he kept pointing at it and saying no....we do have a humidifier....

Do you think at 22 months that he's old enough to understand the theory behind an alarm clock?

Thanks again for replying! I was feeling pretty alone until I found the Baby Whisperer.

[katriona]

just sending you some {{hugs}} from someone with all this to come (we're already seeing signs!).

your DH is sitting at the door while your LO is in bed partying? i don't know if the experts here will agree with me, but imho it's attention-seeking behaviour. have you considered only going in to him if he's upset? if he comes out, return him to bed. if he's upset perhaps follow the wi/wo method detailed elsewhere here on the toddler boards. but absolutely ignore anything else? i'd kick up a happy storm too if i knew it would keep daddy at the door with his attention on me.

hang in there -- there are so many stories of success on these boards; you'll be one of them too  and hang around for the support too. i don't know what i'dhave done without it!

katy

[Katet]

i have a 20mo who I recently moved to a bed & it has been a stark contrast to when we moved our elder child who was 26mo at the time.

What I have found is that I needed to find what he needed to RELAX to get him to sleep, the taking him back & all that thing just overstimulated him & we got to a point of it taking 2 hours to get him to bed & it all ending in tears (his & mine).
I then re-evaluated my thoughts... what did I need to get to sleep, I needed to be relaxed & calm. So I translated that to my 20mo bedtime.... I knew we also had a chronically overtired child so we had 2 naps/day for 3 days (going out in the car so I didn't have to fight & then taking him into his bed on somedays) Then addressing night...the first night I think I sat reading stories for over an hour, then I put him in bed & rubbed his back until he fell asleep... he did move out of the bed a few times, but I would pick him up & simpy say "do you need a cuddle"... it was all about what would relax him rather than what would get him to stay in bed & sleep. 
Recently we have cut back on stories etc, infact he climbed in to bed after one story today & I sat in the chair reading 2 others & he fell asleep, as I read books... I have yet to work on being out of the room while he is still awake, but I do leave the room if he starts playing & moves away from the "routine"...I return the moment he gets upset & give a cuddle & get back to our routine. If he comes out in the middle of the night (more like 5am here now) I take him back & sit with him & cuddle & then put him in bed & stroke his hair until he falls back asleep... which can take a hour or more. I found doing the "rapid" return just upset everyone & made him chronically overtired which didn't really address the issue of him being relaxed enough to fall asleep.
Also when we are doing our wind-down, we talk about what has happened in the day things that upset him & I tell a little story about a boy called L who sleeps in a big boy bed & has teddy & calls out to Mummy (tends to call out before 5am) when he needs comfort & how sleep is important just like cuddles etc.
Things have improved greatly since we have changed from the let him walk out & take him back in days as that literally turned into a game & I got so frustrated & got angry & he got upset.

[LucyA]

Hi, good to see you here!
Just wanted to say I agree that the first thing you need to tackle is overtiredness. Get naps, maybe 2 a day, anyway you can for a couple of days. What time is he getting up in the morning now? Is he giving tired signs at any time?
When he was sleeping well, did he fall asleep by himself?

[frustratedmommy]

Hey gals....Great ideas! I can't thank you enough for the support...and Katy you're right. We are probably giving in to his attention seeking behavior just by being there. But when we do leave the room he hops out of bed screaming. And of course I've got my five month old sleeping in the room next door...Humidifer on full blast to mask the sounds of his hoonanigans! But Kate, you may have something there...am I addressing his needs to fall asleep? But how to I juggle my other baby (who needs nursing and a cuddle before she goes to sleep, about 7pm) with my toddler who needs an hours winddown when my husband works shift work and we have no family around? For a couple days (last month) I had them in bed at the same time, and then the night waking started and now the bed time battle! UGH! But I do appreciate the replys...while my husband is on days off I'm going to try your method Kate and see if a longer cuddle time will help.

Oh and I've been tempted to AP but he will not (nor has he ever) sleep in our bed, nor does he sleep in the car...We went on a 12 hour road trip when he was 14 months and he dozed off ONCE for 20 mins.....

And Lucy....when he was sleeping well he dozed off with a half sippy cup of water...all said and done.

thanks again for the support...it's amazing having others going through this!

[Katet]

I hear you on the other baby.
When we have difficulties & I need to balance the needs of 2 children is write things down & look at possible changed.
Eg earlier  or later bedtime for baby for a short time, read stories while nursing, find a really low key movie to put on the TV, soft music while nursing baby & cuddling toddler in a dim room... could you feed the baby on your bed with the toddler there next to you or would he run around... it may not be ideal for the baby, but nor is a mother who gets no sleep & in all honesty baby sleep more often & are more easily transported while sleeping etc.

I firmly believe when there is change they need security more than anything else & that really means as much attention as possible from Mum & Dad when they need to relax at bedtime.
BTW last night (day4 of my new routine) & we are down from 2 hours to 30mins & that includes stories, cuddles & everything... it was about 20mins before he moved to a bed, so I think this is working.

[frustratedmommy]

I used to nurse baby when we got him ready for bed, but now the baby is getting tired right around 7:00pm. We tried extra cuddles last night and lotsa wind down time, and we still have 1.5 hours of fight to get to sleep. I'm gonna keep trying your extra long wind down and lotsa cuddles and see if that helps....perisistence.....thanks again!

[Colin Macs Mom]

Frust., I just wanted to say that I'm glad you've gotten such great advice and I hope that things are improving for you 

[Katet]

I found that I literally had to stay in wind-down mode, going back to stories & cuddles for as long as it took for him to be drowsy when I started,  I couldn't just do a longer routine as we still had the battle & I couldn't leave him to fall asleep on his own, he just was too overtired, , he needed basically to be calmed by me the whole way to sleep & It sounds like that maybe what your ds needs.
It is hard but I found sitting reading a longer story helped me get less stressed than I did with a child that kept coming out of the room & having to be taken back.
Also when my ds starts to get hyped up & play while we are reading stories, I say Ok if you want to play, I'm going, I'm here to help you go to sleep, but if that isn't what you want right now I'm going, I'll come back if you want more stories... that tended to get him to call me back after 2 seconds & after a couple of days he knew when bedtime routine was on mummy did stories & would cuddle, but she wouldn't play games

[frustratedmommy]

Hey there, Tonight was better...only an hours battle to sleep. I took Kate's advice and did a SUPER long wind down. We started at 5:45pm with a bath and by 6:15 we were reading stories. I had the baby to bed at 6:45pm and my son with lights out at 7:00pm. I had to sit with him until 8:00pm but by 7:30 he was yawning and fighting to stay awake. But as you said I also couldn't leave him to fight it out by himself. He is SOOOOOOO sleep deprived. But this is the shortest time it's taken him to fall asleep in two weeks....so tomorrow I will do the superlong routine again. Like I told the hubby, ANYTHING to save our sanity and for the health of my child. I'll keep you posted!

[frustratedmommy]

Just wanted to update you! We have been doing an EXTRA long wind down time and aiming to have our LO asleep by 7:30pm. It's still taking one of us to lay down with him to get him to doze off, otherwise we are in a screaming fight/battle. We've taken him to the doctor (who totally dismissed our concerns and said he's just being a toddler) and then prescribed him Benedryl saying it might be allergies. Two nights of that and no change so we stopped. I personally think he was hoping it would make him drowsy, which it didn't.

And then someone mentioned a chiropractor! Thank GOD! We took him and the chiropractor has experience with children. He did some really non-invasive adjusting and WOW did that help. Our LO's neck was slightly out and the Doc said that it would have been further aggravated by laying down. We've seen him twice now and my son loves him....He said it could still be awhile until he's feeling up to par. (They adjust children really slowly, which is good). He asked me if he'd had a fall recently and of course (he's an active toddler)...he's had many. But we think we pinpointed it to a bad fall he had tripping over a toy and hitting a dresser. It had a whiplash effect on him when he fell.

Sorry for the long post but PLEASE keep us in mind and keep your fingers crossed that we've found the Miracle we've needed! Thanks again!

We've had two not bad nights of sleep, but now we're doing damage control to fix our APing!