Naps conflict with EASY?

[misher]

Hello,
I have a five month son who is working towards following an EASY sched.  We are at the 3 1/2 EASY after 6 days.  Our biggest problem is his short naps (1/2 hour tops). Thankfully, he now goes to sleep on his own without being bf - amazing! 

Here is my question.  I can't stretch his A time to work with the EASY b/c he is so tired as he only slept 1/2 hour for his first nap.  For example, here is our morning so far.

7:05 - we woke him up to stick with routine.
E - 7:15 - 10 minutes
A - until 8:30 when he started to get fussy, so started wind down
S- in crib at 8:45 - light pat for 5 min.  (no ssshh as it bothers him) 9:00 asleep but wide awake at 9:30. I tried to pat him back to sleep and this worked for 15 min. and then he started to cry.  PUPD for the rest of nap time.

E 10:15 (early b/c he was cying so hard)
A by 11:15 he started to whine and fuss.  I put him in his crib and he was asleep by 11:30 on his own.    This makes sense since he has been awake for 2 hrs but it conflicts with the EASY sched.

Clearly he is tired...  However, according to the EASY sched. in Tracy's book, I should try to hold him off until 12:00 ish. 

If he isn't napping 1 1/2 hours like the book says, then he isn't going to make it to the next sleep period.  Should I just worry about sticking to the feeding sched every 3 1/2 hours and not worry about starting a new nap every 3 1/2 hours?

If you think this questions should be posted under another heading, please say so.

Any advice would be appreciated.  I am new to this but can already see the benefits.
Thanks!

[Aly Mac]

Hi ther Misher - I know your dilemna well - I am there at the moment.  What others on this site have advised me is to have a modified EASY until you can extend A time and/or nap time.  An EASAS. EASEA is what we have fallen into and sometimes that means the E and S time are the same time - doesn't make for a happy baby when they are hungry and tired at the same time.  Below is a thread that someone directed me to only today, so haven't tried but it might help you.

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=649.0

[*Mona*]

Aly Mac- that's a good example of how to deal with short naps that you have been directed to

Misher- I know it looks like he's sooo tired that he's not able to have a longer A time and yes, 30 min naps usually indicate overtiredness BUT if his A times don't get longer he will never nap longer for you! he may seem dead tired to you but 1,30~1,45 hrs of activity for a 6 month old baby IS NOT enough. please try working on having him up longer, for at least 2 hrs, eventually for at least 2,5 hrs. it doesn't have to be very active activity time. you can walk around the house with him or lay him on his tummy and read a book for him or whatever you choose but he needs longer A time.

here are some other links for you:
average A times https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64158.msg689373#msg689373
typical routines
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=10386.0

let us know, how you're doing

[misher]

Thank you for your responses.  I tried to extend A time yesterday with little luck for the first A time of the day.  My ds started to whine at around 1.5 hours after waking.  I tried to keep him up for an additional 15 minutes and he was very overtired for his nap and had a difficult time going to sleep.   He is able to stay awake for 2 - 2.25 hours for the remainder of the day's A time.   All of his naps were around 30 min yesterday.

We have had two mornings where his naps were longer than 30 minutes.  I am not sure what I did differently other than put him in his crib the minute he showed any sleep cue (usually during quiet time) rather than going by the clock.  I will keep working on extending A time each day.  I guess he can't stay awake in the morning b/c he is waking from his night sleep not completely rested.  He still gets up between 2:30am and 4:00am to eat. If I try to give him the paci (which works for earlier night wakings) then he starts to cry.  I haven't tried to drop this night feed b/c he is only 5 months old and I assume he needs it.  He does get a dream feed at 11:00. 

At every nap time I find myself wondering, could this be the nap that goes past the thirty minute mark??

I was going to try wake to sleep this week but I have not been brave enough.
Thanks for your help.  I will keep you posted.
M

[*Mona*]

I guess he can't stay awake in the morning b/c he is waking from his night sleep not completely rested.  He still gets up between 2:30am and 4:00am to eat. If I try to give him the paci (which works for earlier night wakings) then he starts to cry.  I haven't tried to drop this night feed b/c he is only 5 months old and I assume he needs it.  He does get a dream feed at 11:00.

that may be right about his morning A time- many babies tend to have shorter A time in the morning which they outgrow later on.
as for his night feed, if he's taking a full feed and you still have no problems with his first morning feed, he may really need it, true. one thing- I woould move his DF to 10:30pm as 11 is rather too late. even 30 min can make a difference.

good luck and keep us posted

Monika

[Aly Mac]

I'm also trying to extend A times.  Instead of trying to extend by 15mins, just try 5mins a day.  It's a little easier and less stressful (for all!)

[misher]

Thank you for the links - I found them very helpful.  This morning he had a great nap 1 hour and 20 minutes.  I heard him stir at the 1/2 mark and then he went back to sleep. I WAS THRILLED!!  When I went in to check on him, he had his blankie over his eyes. He uses this to fall asleep and then I move it away from his head for safety.  I guess he found it and pulled it over his head when he stirred.  I think this helped him get to the next sleep cycle.   

We are able to stick to feeding every 4 hours; however, his naps are still too short to stick with the regular EASY sched.  He only napped for 1/2 hour in the afternoon and then a 20 min. catnap in the evening. He is so cranky and tired by 6:00 and is in bed by 6:30. 

I am glad that you suggested that I move the DF to 10:30. In her book, Tracy suggests doing the DF At 11:00 which is why I was going with this time - can you explain why this is too late for us?
thanks for your support!!

[*Mona*]

hi regarding DF- I've checked BWSAYP and true enough, once showing a 'perfect' 4hrs EASY routine, there is a 11pm DF suggested BUT in all other places it's always [or almost always] suggested it's between 10 and 11pm when you should be giving your LO a DF. AND from my personal experience and from the experiences of other moms here I can tell you it's ususally better to move DF back a bit to 10:30 or even 10 pm than to keep it at 11pm as later DF tends to brake baby's sleep cycle and sometimes cause those unwanted night wakings.

HTH
Monika

[misher]

Thanks Monika.

I was debating about dropping the DF b/c it has been breaking my LO's sleep cycle. For the past four nights he has been waking a lot more during the night and struggling to go back to sleep.  He needs our help with sssh/pat which he didn't before.

Yesterday was a super nap day as he had two great naps (1.75) hours each.  A record in our house! I had to help him get back after the 45 minute mark both times but he did go back.  Last night he went to sleep at 7:00pm. I gave him the DF at 10:30 but then he was up at 12:30 (gave soother and went back), 2:30 (needed to eat) and 6:00 (wouldn't go back to sleep).  Perhaps I should move the DF back to 10:00.  He slept so soundly from the time I put him down for the night until his DF.  I find he wakes up during the DF and goes back to square one to fall asleep again.  He is not able to sleep through it.  Any suggestions to help with the DF?

My other question... today he woke up at 6:00amas mentioned and he wouldn't go back to sleep so he ate at 6:30.  Do I just shift his whole day forward by one hour as a result. ? Ex. first feed at 10:30 am instead of 11:00?

Thanks for your support. 
M

[*Mona*]

hi

great your day was better!

re DF- I would try to drop it if he wakes up when you feed him. that's what we did when dd was acting just like your Ds. I didn't quit cold turkey on it but kept on offering less and less, until we got to 60ml of formula and then we decided to stop it completely and it worked.

re early mornings- I think that depends. you have to observe your Ds closely and if you notice he's tired sooner, put him down sooner and feed him when he wakes but he may as well not get tired until his usual naptime.

hth
Monika