multiple night wakings

[carybear]

okay my sweet daughter is waking at least twice a night after I put her down to bed.  She won't go back to sleep without nursing.  I'm really needing my sleep.  I know she can go all night without waking as she's done it multiple times but never very regularly. 
here's her schedule:
7-8 am wake eat
9 am nap
11 am eat
1 nap
3 eat
5 eat catnap
7  bed time routine
7:30-8 asleep

I don't do a df, I just don't have the patience to keep it going for longer than one or two nights.  But she's waking at least twice a night, usually 3 times. She's not going for longer than 3 hours between feedings.  She's been doing this for the last couple of months.  She came home from the hospital going 4 hours between feedings through the night so I don't understand why she's doing this now.  generally she's waking at 11 pm, 1 or 2, and 4/5.  I'm so tired. I've got to figure something out. 

I nurse on one side per feeding,  I tried double sided feedings but she'd spit up so much that it wasn't worth it.  She's happier now that I'm back to single sided feeding.  We started Oatmeal cereal on Monday. 
She's a happy, angel baby with a touchy streak.  She definitely likes somethings HER way. LOL but don't we all?

Okay any suggestions or other questions? Please help, I need more sleep I've also got a 3 yr old at home who needs a more attentive mommy.

[Colin Macs Mom]

How old is she?

[carybear]

Oh I'm sorry, she's five months old.
and here is the list of questions I forgot to get before I his post


What’s nap routine? I usually just plop her in bed after giving kisses and playing peekaboo with her blankie
How long are naps? usually 2 hours but sometimes she'll only go for 45 min, but as long as she's waking happy I don't fret too much.
What's bedtime routine? Time? bed time routine is always a massage and jammies then top off.  about every other night I do a bath before the massage.
Do you bottle or breastfed??  We do a little of both, but always breastmilk.  But lately she won't take a bottle either...grrr...makes my work nights hard for Daddy.
How much? or how long? I pump about 3 oz out when I pump (single sided pump btw)  and she is a quick efficient nurser only going about 10 minutes.
If breastfed.. one side or both?? (at each feed)  Single sided feeding.
How many wakes per night?  Two to three
What’s your LO like when waking at night? How long is he/she up? this is where I want to rip my hair out!  she starts just quiet fussing then moves into talking loudly then screaming. Last night it took two hours to get her back to sleep.  that's the usual unless I jump in and BF.
When you go to him/her is she fussing or crying? Or is it a mantra cry?  I think I may have Aped and jumped in too soon when she was younger to keep her from waking big bro and now she expects it asap.
What have you tried to settle?? she is anti pacifier so that won't work anymore.  she'll just chew on on it then spit it across the bed.  right now I'm just doing my version of shh/pat but really it's shh/rub her tummy. it only seems to work after a BF...grr...
What do you do for A time and how long is it?  A time varies, usually tummy time and floor time lots of cuddles
Are there developmental issues such as teething or milestones?  she's started rolling over because she wants to now, she's been able to roll over for about a month and a half now.
Have you introduced cereal? Why, how much, and how many times a day? (for LO’s under 6 months)  Yup,  less than a Tablespoon twice a day.  Her Dr told me to give her some acidopholis and put it in her cereal or other baby food. 
Do they have a prop? If so what is it? not unless I'm the prop.
Do they have a lovie?  She's loving her blankies at sleep time.  there is no specific one right now.

So I think I have it all now.  I really hope someone can point me in the right direction to solve this.  I'm unfortunately, having to put all 3 of my kids in the same room for a while, until I get my basement finished this summer.  so any way I can help her to sleep better so she doesn't disturb her big sister's sleep for school.

[Colin Macs Mom]

I think I may have Aped and jumped in too soon when she was younger to keep her from waking big bro and now she expects it asap.

I think this right here is just the issue. It sounds like she's developed a feed/suck to sleep association. Have you tried PU/PD before? When she eats at night does she take a full feed?

[carybear]

yeah she takes a full feed at night, only once in a while does she not drain my breast.   so you think I should try pu/pd?  I'll have to try to read up on it. 
okay anything else I should try?

[Colin Macs Mom]

If she's taking a full feed then she definitely needs it. It wouldn't be abnormal for her to still need one night feed at her age. But more than that I wouldn't think would be necessary.

I don't know a thing about BFing so I'm going to ask a BF mod to come take a look and see if they can add anything.

[Samuel's mum]

I think the most likely thing is that she has a suck/sleep association as mentioned but also now that she has been getting several night feeds her 24hr calorie pattern has now become dependent on it so that she now is legitimately hungry. If you were to move straight to pat/shush or pu/pd you would find she was still genuinely hungry.
If her night feeds have become more regular then her appetite has come to be dependent on them so you'll need to reduce the night time calories gradually before you can then work on the sleep/suck association in the knowledge that she isn't actually hungry. Obviously with breast it's not as easy as reducing by an oz. The ways to do it are to attempt stretching at nighteven if it's only by initially 10 minutes or so and then when you do feed try and remove her from the breast at the first opportunity. I have also heard of some people pumping before a feed to remove a volume of foremilk and then have less quantity for baby. Although in the long term that might stimulate supply and be quite a hassle. Another possibility is to try a variation in single-sided feeding for her last feed at night so you give her the single-side but return to the same side again a few minutes later for a bit of extra hindmilk which will come with a new flood of letdown. How long is it since you tried to introduce double-sided feeds?
I think reducing nighttime calories will take a few days or even longer but once it starts to happen you can then use other sleep techniques more easily.

My only other thought is that she's reacting to solids and it's causing her to wake and then once she's awake she's thinking 'hmmm, perhaps I could do with some boob'. Plenty of babies even 6 months+ have more disturbed nights when solids introduce - contrary to the myth it always improves night sleep. Sam woke up much more and sometimes I could even hear him gurgling. So I would make sure there isn't a meal too near sleep. I would also add acidophilus can also cause some digestive discomfort. For babies a low dose is recommended - like 1-2 billion cultures. I used to take it myself to prevent thrush and it caused me tummy upset and when I read about it, it seemed that wasn't so uncommon. So that's just something to think about.

[carybear]

I try to give her the acidopholis at her 11 am feeding so maybe it is causing her tummy problems, but she doesn't have issues during the day.  So I'm really not sure.   I tried double sided feedings when she was 3 months old she seemed to be hungrier than usual but she started spitting up so much that it didn't seem like she was keeping any extra food down.  She didn't throw a fit or act any differently when I went back to single sided feeding.  But then maybe that was when she started with the multiple night wakings....hmmm... interesting idea.  I'm just not sure how to get around the spitting up if I do go back to double sided feedings.  She spits up large quantities of milk when I do.  I've tried a few times. 
So how do I go about deciding when to pull her off during her night feedings?  just wait until she slows down? or wait until the first time she falls off?  I'm not sure I'm up to pumping first, It's hard to get her to calm if I wait that long.  I'm going to try to wait a bit longer before I jump in to feed her.  although I have been shutting our doors completely the last few nights and i haven't heard her stir nearly as much.  Not sure what the real difference is other than I can't hear every peep.  But it seems to be helping, she's only woken once after I'm in bed.  but My new issue is that she's waking just an hour to an hour an a half after I put her down and demanding a feeding.  Any suggestions on that?

[carybear]

Okay I'm back, I'm having success well more success in keeping her asleep at night.  I've found that if I close her door all the way along with mine I don't hear every peep and think she's awake.  So that's helping I only hear what's important. 
We have a new problem, however.  Now she's waking after I put her down for her DF and NOT going back to sleep!  She'll stay awake for 2 hours after just wanting to play.  What do I do?  I'm so lost, I try keeping her in her bed and shh/pat but that's not working she freaks out. She cries and cries and won't take a Paco so do I just stay up with her? I can't sleep as long as she's awake and making noise.  So it's making me crazy.  I can't just let her cry, thus the reason I'm asking for help.  HELP!!!

[Samuel's mum]

Staying awake for 2 hours! hmmm
Have you tried not doing the df and see what happens? Maybe she's ready to drop it.

Is she reacting to something in her diet? Have you started any different solids or doing anything else differently?
Has her nap schedule changed?

[carybear]

her afternoon nap schedule is always wonky.  One day she'll have a cat nap others its a no go.  it really just depends on the day.  but as long as she's happy I don't worry too much about that cat nap.  She started peas this week but I haven't given her any for a couple of days now.  She really seems to like them.  the thing about the DF is if I don't do it she'll wake anyway.  I've never been real regular with the DF until the past two weeks when I've been trying to stop the NW. 
Maybe it is the fact that my parents are moving in this week.  Because really, it's been since they moved in on Tuesday that I've been having this issue.  So do I just have to ride this out if that's the case?  I'm not sure I can do that, now she's thinking every time she wakes she needs to say up for at least 2 hours.  Last night she did it at 10:30 waking before her DF then staying up till 11:30, woke and ate at 1:30 (thankfully went back to sleep quickly) and again at 3:30 woke and was up until 6!  I seriously can not keep on like this. I already felt like Zombie Mommy...I'm getting to where I feel like Psycho Mommy.    Either way I'm feeling like all of my kids are suffering with this one.

[Samuel's mum]

How do think the parents thing might be making a difference? Do you feel more tense and anxious? Is the house noiser and her routine disrupted? It might be a factor.

I guess another problem is that with that little sleep she might be then overtired the next day and the cycle continue.

How do you respond when she's awake? I think all you can do is make sure lights stay out and keep on with nighttime behaviour. I would continually try with the sssh/pat or a version of pu/pd if she's old enough for it. Maybe ask the pu/pd folks what they would advise. I guess you may find that if she's awake happily in her cot and if you aren't providing any interest/stimulation she may put herself back to sleep.

[Colin Macs Mom]

How do think the parents thing might be making a difference? Do you feel more tense and anxious? Is the house noiser and her routine disrupted? It might be a factor.

I was thinking the same thing. LOs are very sensitive to our emotions and "vibes" and also to their environment.

[carybear]

yeah I guess it's a bit more crazy around here right now.  and I am feeling some anxiousness at night trying to keep her quiet so every one can sleep. 
I've tried to let her just be happy in her crib but she starts screaming, not crying screaming just screaming to state her frustration, then it turns to the crying version.  Which only frustrates me more....Ugh it's a nasty cycle!  She won't take a pacifier to calm, well she did last night so that was nice, except she won't keep the thing in her mouth long enough to relax. So I do my shh pat and she gets worked up  or she starts talking to me and laughing and "jumping" in bed.  (basically just banging her feet on the bed) I'll make the mistake of thinking she's asleep and leave the room just to have her start screaming all over again.  It's so obnoxious.  I am exhausted.  What am I doing wrong here?

[mommy2two]

I think I may have Aped and jumped in too soon when she was younger to keep her from waking big bro and now she expects it asap.

I think I have done the exact same thing. My baby is 4.5 mo and every time she piped up I ran in and gave her the paci so she would not wake my 2 yr old and now I am doing this 3-6x a night! I am following your thread looking for answers too!