should I quit bf?

[mummyd]

My mom and mil keep telling me to switch lo (4 wks old) to formula as I am frustrated with bf.  I don't want to quit, but I am just soooo tired from the night wakings and having to constantly try to keep him awake to feed in the day.  It seems like such work when it's hard to rest in the day with a 21/2 y.o. as well.  I think I am getting about 4 1/2 hrs of broken sleep a night   I have posted on easy and sleep boards about this and the easy routine that I am trying to get going.  LO seems to want to sleep most of the day and wake at 2 am and 430am.  I have to wake him constantly during feeds in the day as he sucks for a few minutes and falls asleep.  I also have a quick let down so I know by the sputtering that he's getting lots - my mom tells me "maybe there's not enough nutrition in your milk ".  She does not believe me when I tell her that's a myth and that some people may have a low supply, but I don't believe I do.
Just wondering if anyone else is having any such difficulties and what you did.  I am wondering if the nights would get better if I try a bottle of formula before bed or for the dream feed.  I have consulted the local lactation consultants, but all they say is feed on demand and get him weighed to make sure he is gaining.  They are VERY biased and there are no private lactation consultants around here, just the ones from the health board.  And, they say to wake him if he goes more than 4 hrs during day for feeds.  Well, that sounds great, but I CANT get him to wake up!!  It would be nice if these little folks would just conform...

 

[Samuel's mum]

Huge HUGS.

And a  to your mom who I'm sure means well but clearly lacks the knowledge to be a great help in this area. Breastmilk is the best thing for your baby - it contains all the nutrition needed as well as a bunch of magical things that protect him against disease and illness. If there is a virus in your environment, you make an antiviral protection which you then deliver to him in your milk. You protect him against bacterias, allergies and this protection can last many many years.
Pretty much everyone feels like this after only 4 weeks especially with a sleepy baby which can make things very tough. Breast compression is a life saver in your case. Have a look at the new FAQ on breast compression for how to do it.

Sleeping most of the day is what 4 week olds do, don't they? 'A' time is about the length of a nappy/diaper change for most 4 week olds. As for the nights - even if you switched to formula you could expect at least a couple of nightwakings. Your 21/2 year old must have been a great sleeper as a baby. All of my friends with toddlers and small babies are more tired this time round - it is tough - however you feed.

I don't mean to dismiss your concerns. I can hear you're suffering but I'm just saying in all honesty ending bfing might not be a magic solution and instead bring new problems - formula fed babies are most prone to gas and colic for a start. I would just try and give it a couple more weeks (6 weeks is said to be how long it takes for bfing to get established). The sleepy baby problem will definitely be helped by breast compression and sleepiness is likely to improve as every week goes by.

Using the odd bottle of formula - that is a very personal choice - but just bear in mind that it may lead to supply issues as he will demand less from the breast so be aware of that. Also you may just want to do a bit more reading about why exclusive breastfeeding is recommended (there's an FAQ) just so you can be informed and it might help you against your mom and MIL. It's hard to breastfeed without support - if they want to support they could give you a chance to nap with baby during the day - or at least support the decision you have made.

You could also have a think about pumping so you could give a bottle of ebm (assuming you feel he's got a good latch and you don't think he would find it tricky to switch between a bottle and the breast). You could then get someone to give a bottle for a nightfeed. That way you are still exclusive breastfeeding but you have a bit more flexibility.

Of course, at the end of the day, the decision really is yours and you will decide what is best for you and your family. I'm just listening to what you are saying when you say 'you don't want to quit'.  Have a good at breast compression for a start. And maybe sit your mom down - give her some stuff to read - and say very clearly that if she wants to support you she needs to give you support and that doesn't mean undermining your choice at this stage.

More HUGS

[Shellha]

I am still BF my DS, for a number of reasons but one that really sticks out for me is that it is CONVENIENT! I just couldn't even imagine getting up in the night, preparing and warming a bottle etc etc!!

I started to give my DS a bottle of formula (or DH would so I could get to bed early) at around 4.5mths but BF him for all other feeds. In my opinion, it helped DS go a bit longer during the night (most experts will tell you it doesn't help).

If you don't want to give up then don't - tell your Mum to p*ss off in the nicest possible way as these old fashioned ideas just cause all of us to second guess ourselves (my Mum did similar - and here we are 10 mths later :-)

In the BW it says not to tickle your LOs feet but that was all I could do to get him to wake up - that and tickling the back of his neck.

I know pumping is a pain in the bum, but could you pump enough for a DF so your DH could do it, if you don;t want to go down the route of formula and that way you could egt to bed early and at least get a few hours kip.

Hang in there, and well done for managing with 2 kids! I just about hold it together with 1!

Shell

[malialeanne]

Hugs! And Grrr to your mom and mil.

Agree with everything Emma says. BF has been hard for me as well--I've had every problem in the book: lazy latch, slow let down, supply issues, thrush, infections, you name it. But I know that going to formula would just mean replacing those with a new set of problems. Gas, colic, ear infections and colds (we haven't had one), constipation, diaper rash...I would rather have me be in discomfort than my lo. And motherhood is hard enough without dealing with a sick baby.

Two night feeds at 4 weeks is pretty darn good in my opinion!

Waking the sleepyhead--that's tough. Our nurse showed us some gentle "baby aerobics" to wake her if she fell asleep during a feed. Lifting her up and down, raising her to a sitting position, cycling her legs, pumping her arms, holding her and "walking her" on my lap. She hated this btw. But it did work. The good news is as time goes on you do it less and less, they get with the program and learn to stay awake to eat.

[Erin (redstarfalling)]

IT GETS BETTER IT GETS BETTER IT GETS BETTER!! 

Really - this is a particularly hard time for moms - especially with a sleepy baby.  I had to use a cold (and we're talking ICE cold) wash cloth to keep my first awake for feeds.  Drove me crazy, but by around 6 weeks, she started having more awake time and settled into a better routine. I know what you mean about having no sleep and entertaining a 2.5 year old too - I really feel for you.  But it will get better.  Emma had some good suggestions.

Do what you can to get some sleep...any chance you can nap when both of them are having an afternoon snooze?  I try to mess with my older's routine a bit to coordinate their naps when I can (although I only have to deal with weekends).

We're here for you and sending {{hugs}}.

[Shellha]

Devil's advocate time....

I think it is important to qualify re: problems associated with formula, that these are possible issues you might have to deal with. I have quite a few friends that formula fed from early on (both by choice and due to issues with supply) and they haven't had any of these issues (actually the majority slept really well and gained weight quickly - whether related or not who knows???)

As I said before I have BF my DS for 10 mths now and he has had his fair share of being ill despite doing all the 'right' things including 2 respiratory infections - I guess it just gives you a better chance if BF with your LO.

Whatever you decide, good luck with it, the girls on here have all the info for you to make an informed decision! I love breastfeeding my Son and hope to do the same next time but if I had to formula feed for whatever reason next time I know it wouldn't be the end of the world.

[malialeanne]

I have quite a few friends that formula fed from early on (both by choice and due to issues with supply) and they haven't had any of these issues (actually the majority slept really well and gained weight quickly - whether related or not who knows???)

As I said before I have BF my DS for 10 mths now and he has had his fair share of being ill despite doing all the 'right' things including 2 respiratory infections - I guess it just gives you a better chance if BF with your LO.

Hi again, I hear this all the time so I just have to comment: it's not valid to compare illness rates, sleeping, weight gain of any two infants, whether ff or bf. Every child and their environmental conditions are unique. There's no way to know how sick vs. well any bf infant would be if ff, or vice versa. To really have an accurate comparison you would need to clone each infant, use one as a control and one as a test (i.e. bf one and ff one), keep all other conditions the same, and then compare. Since that's impossible we just have to accept what doctors say, that bf will protect against some illness, and that yes, ALL babies do get sick.

Sorry to have to put on my "science" hat, I work at a research university so I'm trained to think this way and I can't help it, it's an illness. LOL

[daybyday]

when my DD got sick at 6 weeks I was like "what the heck," I thought BF was supposed to prevent all this stuff? (my DS didn't catch his first cold until he was 7 months)....and a friend of mine said..."imagine how sick she would be if you didn't BF her?"

Now is that true?
[/quote]
 it's not valid to compare illness rates, sleeping, weight gain of any two infants, whether ff or bf. Every child and their environmental conditions are unique. There's no way to know how sick vs. well any bf infant would be if ff, or vice versa. To really have an accurate comparison you would need to clone each infant, use one as a control and one as a test (i.e. bf one and ff one), keep all other conditions the same, and then compare. Since that's impossible we just have to accept what doctors say, that bf will protect against some illness, and that yes, ALL babies do get sick.
[/quote]

I agree with ALL the pp's but as Emma said...When it comes down to it, you have to do what's right for you and your family...Keep coming back to get information and support...The gals here are amazing!

[*Stephanie*]

To encourage you about mom....

When my mom asked what I was going to do, I said breastfeed, and at first she got quiet.  She then said something about formula being more nutritious, but I had read up and quoted to her that it wasn't and why.

Between 5 and 6 months, she asked by telephone, "Are you still doing THAT?" and there was disdain in her voice when she said "that". 

One day I was at my mom's, my dd was crying, and it was time to eat.  I whipped out my breast and started feeding her in less than five seconds.  My mom said, "That's convenient."  There was no sarcasm.  Maybe there was a hint of acceptance.   

Last week, I was talking to my mom, and she was going to watch dd for two days.  I said, I believe I pumped enough milk, but I bought formula just in case so that you have something until I get back.  She said, "Ohhhh no.  My granddaughter is NOT getting formula!  I was just watching a program about babies and toddlers and they are saying they are too fat and unhealthy in general.  They said parents need to get back to basics and more need to breastfeed.  I said to myself, Stephanie has the right idea." 

I almost fell off my chair.  She finally admitted breastfeeding was best.  It took her 8 months to finally get here, but she did.  So hang in there (at least give it six weeks if you can), but you have to do what is best for you and your family.  Good luck in whatever you decide.

Just a side note... I gave myself different milestones to evaluate if I wanted to continue bf.  The first was six weeks, the second was 3 months, and the third was six months.  The experts recommend six weeks to really let bf get established.  3 months is the end of one exponential brain growth.  6 months is the end of another exponential brain growth.  At each milestone, I said, "Do I want to continue going on? How do I feel about bf?"  It helped me to break it down to the milestones instead of seeing it as one year of bf.  Now, my dd is 8 months, and just tonight I marvelled at the fact that I supply milk to my dd and she is suckling from my breasts.  My next milestone is a year or when the top teeth come in (whichever happens first.)   

Again, good luck.

[LLLena]

mummyd- Hang in there.  (((HUGS!!!)))  It does get better! I agree w/ pps and Emma is the best for advice!  My mom did the same thing and MIL always asked if I was still breastfeeding like it was something completely absurd.  They are from a different era and are uncomfortable with bf.  Please give yourself time and it'll work for you.  I know its hard, but it'll be worth it.  I agree with Stephanie about setting up dates for re-evaluating your goals.  I did something similar and just weaned ds at 1 yr.  Never would I have expected to go as long as I did, but I am happy to have done it. 

Whatever you decide, do it for YOU, not your mom/MIL.  Good luck!

[Aly Mac]

Hi there - in regards to keeping you lo awake.  I had to feed every 4hrs first as my lo was small.  I know it's hard to wake them, she would always fall asleep while feeding.  I used to change a nappy in between to wake her up, or tickle her chin or feet!  The DF didn't work for me because she was too asleep.

I'm no expert on Bf or bottle but just hang in there and know that it will get better no matter what you decide.  do you it for you and your family (lo, DH and you!) Ignore everyone else!!!

[RachelC]

{{{hugs}}}}

How are things going?

[mummyd]

Thanks Ladies!
The bf is going a bit better.  LO seems more awake in general all of a sudden.  I think the night feeds are just exhausting me and with the 2 1/2 yo there's not a lot of time to rest.  I know everyone says to let other things go but we need to be realistic with what NEEDS to get done at home - such as meals!  I find it hard not to compare to the 1st one who was going from 11pm df to around 4am by now.  And being a really organized (ok, anal ) person makes it hard not to second guess and over analyse things and trying too hard to decode what baby wants/needs at any given time.  I know, as the days go by it all gets easier and one day we will all sleep  
Now we are going to have to work on the day time sleep...

[Samuel's mum]

You sound like you are in a good place. I'm glad baby has woken up a bit. Now just get the 21/2 yr old to tell little brother about the benefits of sleeping longer at night!!

more HUGS

[bethann]

Wanted to send over some hugs and support and encouragement.  Like the others ladies have mentioned- it gets SO much better! 

~~~HUGS~~~