Hi from Thailand, Please help me my baby is nightwaker

[fussy mom]

Hi I'm not good in English cause I'm not a native speaker. If my writing does not make sence to you, please understand.  My son is 5 months old now. He was a good sleeper when he was 3 months old. When he was 4 months, he started to wake up at night to play. I tried everything that another mom suggested me such as turn off the light and did not play with him, no nap for him in the evening or even let him cry himself to sleep but nothing work. He still wake up at 10 to 1 for playing. This is his EASY
Gets up at 10
BF at 10.30
Play 45 minutes then nap time routines
Nap at 11.30
get up at 1 or 2
BF then play until 3.15
Nap time routines and nap at 3.30
get up at 4.30 or 5
BF and play until 6.30
Bed time routines at 6.30
Go to bed at 7.15
Dreamfeed at 9
then he gets up at 10 to 1 or 2 every night
His nap time routines, reading book, rocking him while I sing lullaby until he is dawsy then put him in his crib while he is awake.
Bed time routines, bath then book , rocking while I sing him lullaby until he is dawnsy then put him in his crib.
What should I do. Should I wake him up at 8 and start new routines or should I do whatever it takes him to sleep when he gets up to play. Or should I move his bed time later at 9. Anyone can give me an advice please. Thank you very much.

[LLLena]

Hi!  Just wanted to jump on quick and try to help.  I think the main reason he is waking to play at night is because his day is too short.  Try starting the day earlier at 7 or 8 and not later.  I am confident that we can get you in a better place.  There is no need to let him cry it out.   Here is a sample EASY schedule to follow:

E  7:00 wake and bf
A  until 8:45 then wind down
S  9:00 nap

E  10:30 bf
A  until 12:30
S  12:45/1:00 nap

E  2:00 bf
A  until 4:15
S  4:30 nap (always 30-45 min)

E  5:15 bf
A
A  7:00 start bedtime routine
E  7:20 bf
S  7:30 bed

E 9:30-10 DF

Try this starting tomorrow morning and go by the clock/sleep cues, but you need to keep him up longer during the day for him to sleep through the night.  So, start w/ an earlier morning and we'll go from there. 

Hope that helps.
Lena

[Colin Macs Mom]

I agree with Lena!

[fussy mom]

Hi Lena and Jessica
Thank you so much for your suggestions. Yesterday, I followed your routine. He did not get up at 10 but he got up at 3 instead.  poor mommy. He was suddenly waking up hysterical at night. I came to check on him but nothing wrong. He cried while his eyes closed. I'm not sure if it was a night terrors or nightmares. I tried to comfort him but it seemed worse. He cried louder and screamed. So I picked him up and tried to feed him. I think I woke him up cause his eyes opened and he seemed awake. He did not go in to my breasts, just kept crying. Then I rocked him until he was quiet. I put him back in his crib, he did not cry. He just talked to himself and played in his crib. About an hour, he went back to sleep. What should I do in this situation. Do you have any idea if it's a night terrors.

[LLLena]

Fussymom-  It sounds like the sleep thing is a little better waking at 3 instead of 10!  That is a good start, right?  However, the nw is a little wierd.  How long did he cry like that before you picked him up?  I would consider doing shh/pat instead of bf.  Although you were looking to sooth him, you might be better off going as you intend to continue.  I've been so messed up that we started the bf to sleep thing and I wouldn't recommend it.    Do you think he was in pain?  Might he be teething?  I am just trying to throw some other possibilities for the screaming out there.  You might be right w/ the night terror though. 

I think the schedule will definitely help, but there are little bumps that might pop up in the process.  That okay though, because they'll be easier to address once he's used to the routine.  KWIM? 

How did you feel by staying w/ the routine? 

[fussy mom]

Hi Lena
Thank you for your responding. You responded me very quickly.  Yes I think it's a good start that he gets up at 3 instead of 10. Your routine is wonderful and I will stick with it. It helps me a lot. It's easier for me to plan my day and I can get some rest. My hubby and I get up at 5. Therefore my baby slept at 1 or 2 so I did not get much rest. Last night, I went to bed at 9 and he got up at 3. See, I had 6 hours to sleep and I'm not a fussy poor mom today. 
By the way, he cried longer than 15 minutes before I picked him up. I waited for 5 minutes before I came to check in. I tried to shh/ pat him for 5 minutes. It was getting worse cause he screamed so I stopped. I waited for another 5 minutes to see if he would sooth himself. He kept crying so I picked him up and tried to feed him to see if he would quiet. But it did not work so I rocked him.
Yes you are right. It's not a good idea to bf to sleep. I was desperated at that time. He screamed and cried like he was in pain. Lena, how can I know if he is teething.

[LLLena]

I'm glad you finally got some rest.  Have you read the BW book?  Tracy never recommends CIO or letting them cry for extended periods.  However if you think he is starting to settle himself, you can hang back.  If not, then you need to go to him and comfort him while he learns to settle himself.  You can do that with shh/pat and being consistent, which might mean that it could take an hour or more.  And eventually after he's 6 months old, you can do pickup/putdown.  But pu/pd is recommended after you've exhausted other alternatives.  I would really suggest that you read the book and you can also get lots of good information on this site.  I'll attach a few links for your reading pleasure. 

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=69187.0

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=69177.0

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=69183.0

If you think he's sick or teething, give cuddles and help him fall asleep.  Don't do any sleep training if you think he's ill.  Regarding teething, is he chewing on his hands or drooling alot?  Does he have rough/swollen gums?  Have you tried any teething remedies if you've noticed any of the aforementioned signs?

I forgot to ask, does he use a paci?  When do you use it?

Hope tomorrow continues to look up for you. 

Lena

[seniuk2001]

Hi FussyMom!

So sorry to hear that you are struggling right now.  Remember that this too shall pass and that even though it may seem hopeless at times, you are doing the right thing by helping him learn to sleep on his own.  You will learn his cues more when you keep him on a routine...I found this very helpful.

If you try to follow Lena's suggested routine, you will find it gets easier...keep in mind that the routine is new for both of you...your little guy needs time to adjust to this as well.  It will take several days of consistency to really appreciate the new routine.  You may want to try the new routine on the weekend when you have the help of a partner or friend...because you may be tired as you wake earlier in the day and get him up at that time too.  If he doesn't wake easily on his own, I would try things..letting some light in, turning lights on..that kind of thing...then get him up and start your day....you will both be tired for a couple of days...but it will come around for you.

I have one more thing to add about his night wakings...if he's not waking to nurse, then I would even try consoling him in his crib..and not even take him out...I would want to be careful about rocking him to sleep.  You are teaching him that it's okay that he is sleeping on his own..and that he will learn this new skill too...with time.  So I would reach over the edge of his bed and console him from there.  I still do that with my little girl sometimes.  She just need to know I'm there and she settles back down.  I would only take him out if it is not getting any better with trying to settle him while he is in his bed....if it seems like his cries are intermittent or not quite as urgent, give him more time to try on his own.  Use your voice and your touch to let him know you are there to help him.

Remember!  You are doing a great job!  You came on here looking for some help.  You will find the book is helpful and this community is very supportive.  You are a great mom for doing what is best for your baby ! Keep up the good work!  And be sure to keep us up to date on how things are going.

Good night!
Leanne

[fussy mom]

Hi Lena and Leanne 
Thank you again for your suggestions and support. Last night, he woke up at 1 but he did not cry at all. He talked to himself, played in his crib ( I heard he laughed ) and roll over. About 2 hours, he cried a few second then he was quiet. I came to check and I found out, he went back to sleep on his own. Should I do whatever to make him sleepy so he goes back to sleep. Or should I let him play as long as he does not cry.
Thank you so much for the links Lena. When he was 3 months, he stoped taking paci. I do not see that he has swollen gum. And he did not cry like he was in pain last night. Well, I tried cry it out method for 3 days to see if it worked. Therefore, he would sleep if I nursed him. Since I tried cry it out, he can sooth and go back to sleep by himself. Sometime, he cries for 5 minutes then go back to sleep so when he cries, I wait to see if he really gets up.
Eventhought he knows how to sattle himself, he still gets up at night to play. I do not want to try cry it out anymore cause I feel quilty. And it hurt me real bad. I cried outside his room. It's funny isn't it that you cry in front of the door instead of go in and comfort your baby. I have many suggestions from you and I will try my best to stick with the routine. But I confuse that should I do rock until he is sleepy then put him down while he still awakes or should I let him play until he falls asleep by himself.
Leanne, he is very sensitive baby. When I open the curtain and let the sunlight go in, he wakes up immediately. When it's noisy, he can not sleep too. I'm glad that I tried cry it out. Now he knows how to sattle himself and he does not depend on prop but I can not stick with it. As I told above, I feel guity to let him cry. The only one problem is, he is a night waker. Once I start Lena's routine, it's very helpful. Yes you are right. He needs time to adjust his new routine.
I'm glad that I found this website and you guys here help and support me a lot. I'm very appreciated. Thank you very much. 

[fussy mom]

Hi Lena
I found the answer of my question from the links you attached. Thank you.

[LLLena]

Hi Fussymom,

Glad to hear things are getting better.  I wouldn't take your lo out of his crib unless he's crying and then do shh/pat or pu/pd.  If he is able to entertain himself and self-soothe, you are heading in the right direction and he obviously is going back to sleep on his own, so I wouldn't worry about it. 

I just want to mention again that in the BW sleep training methods, it is not recommended to let the child CIO.  There are kinder and gentler methods that do not break trust as CIO.  The BW methods are to allow the child to self soothe, but for them to know that mother or father is right there for them and did not abandon them while they are in need.  Here are a few more links explaining this and the sleep methods futher.  HTH- Lena

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=63839.0

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=451.0

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=77626.0

[fussy mom]

Hi Lena
He still gets up at 1. Last night, he cried. I tried to do shh/pat him. I stoped pat him when he stoped crying but once I stopped, he cried. I want to know if I should continue to shh/pat him until he is sleepy or should I stop when he is not cry. If I have to shh/pat him until he is sleppy, will it be new prop for him. How long should I do shh/pat him. Thank you. 

[LLLena]

How long did you shh/pat after he stopped crying?  In my experience, another good 5 minutes and watching his cues for sleepiness should help you decide when to try to put him down.  You don't want him to be completely asleep, but relaxed and able to drift off on his own.  I don't think shh/pat will become a prop, although I understand your concern.  Here is yet another link explaining shh/pat better... this is on a 3 month old, but the concept is the same.  You may have to resort to pu/pd, but let's try shh/pat first.  Even though ds might still be crying, you are always there to comfort.  That is the good thing with these methods.  https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=9287.0

How is your day and the rest of the night going?  ARe you doing any more bf at night?

[fussy mom]

Hi Lena
I go back to bed when he sleep. I go to bed at 7 as he does. But after he goes back to bed at 3 am, I can not sleep. I'm very tired during the day but I stick with the routine strictly. Last night, I cried cause I feel like I'm a bad mom who has no parenting skill. My husband told me to relax and think in positive way. He said baby needs time to adjust and he will learn someday. Yes I still feed him at night. I do dreamfeed at 9.30.
Lena, in my case, he wanted to get up and play. He wanted me to play with him. I kept his room dark and I let him see I sat next to his crib. He was good for 30 minutes then cried. Once I pat/shh him. He smiled at me and his eyes wild open. I stoped and sat next to his crib agian. He was good for 10 minutes then cried. I shh/pat him. He smiled at me and his eyes still wild open. I stoped and sat next to his crib. ( he saw me all the time ) He was good for 5 minutes and he cried agian. It had continued from 1 to 4 last night. I saw he rub his eyes since he got up for 1 hour but he did not go back to sleep. Do you have any suggestion in my case. Thank you.

[LLLena]

I know this is a hard transition and it can really wear on you.  Please don't feel like a bad mom, you are doing your best and that says a lot!  I agree with your husband too, try to relax a bit.  This unfortunately won't change overnight, but you can already see changes.  Right? 

When he wakes at night, can you put him down and then walk out (as long as he isn't crying)?  Just curious why you are sitting next to the crib.  I think that might be part of the reason he thinks its playtime-- because you are sitting there and looking like fun!  

I am going to post this discussion on another thread and hopefully we can get more advice to help.  This problem didn't happen overnight and it can be fixed, but it might take a couple of weeks.  So, try stepping out of the room and see how that goes. 

Goodluck.
Lena