Back Again

[AP]

Sorry, I did not mean that I try to put her to sleep in the car, I'm just saying that she is so alert that if we go somewhere she does not even fall asleep. I've not fed her once since we have decided to go through the night, I pat her and if that does not work, I do PU/PD. She has actually done well, except the last 2 nights, she has a snotty nose, and had dirty diapers at 3, It really  looks like her front teeth are coming, her gums is really swollen, and yest. she had a bit of a fever. She really does go down good, it was only the teething that messed it up, but this week it has been much better!

We start the day, first feed at7, although she sometimes wakes at 6:40 and just plays in her crib till I pick her up. Then she goes down for 1st nap any time from 8:40 to 9, 9:30ish I do W2S and she sleeps till 10:15- 10:30ish.
11 feed
12:20 lunch.
2nd nap is anywhere from 12:30 to 1 depending on how good her 1st nap was, but that is only 30min!
So when W2S used to work on this nap, she took a catnap at 5 . But now I put her down for a nap at 4 again, also just 30min.
snack at 4:30.
bath at 6:15,
feed at 6:30,
sleep at 7(which she does independently)
feed again at 5am-ish (any other time she wakes up, we pat her to sleep again)
I think my big problem is the short naps, I think that will also help her nights. I try and do calm things with her bf the nap, and wind down, but it still doesn't help? not even to get a 40min nap. I really don't know.

[momofclaire]

With all that (teeth, yeast, fever) going on, it sounds like you are doing good.  I would really concentrate on naps as that seems to be the majority of your problem.  Could she be ready for a bit more A time?  2 hours may be fine before the first nap, but babies tend to be able to go a little longer as the day goes on.  Maybe she could use a bit more play before her second nap.  I would try this in small increments, like 5-10 min, and see how it goes.

[AP]

Her front teeth looks like it will be out at the end of the week, (hopefully) Then I will try and do longer activity time. I actually had that idea, but when her first nap started going screwy, it wouldn't work. But her first nap has been better the last 2 days, (with W2S, can't do without) so maybe after the teeth? Will let you know. I'll be the happiest mom if she just takes one long nap by herself!!

[AP]

Well I'm really down in the dumps today, one of her front teeth started cutting, no longer naps yet, so very fussy unhappy little girl. Who takes such bad naps that she falls asleep drinking at night,the last few days, no matter how much I try and keep her awake before bed.
She been going to sleep so good in the day, all calm and relaxed without crying or fussing, why can't she sleep longer?
Also trying to get her to sleep through the night? The case studies in BW book, all seem to take about tree days, then they sleep through. I've been busy with it, consistently for nearly 2 weeks, but she still wakes up every other night, if not every night. At least she does not wake at 11 anymore. Why am I struggling so much? Her front teeth is cutting now, I can see them, can that influence the constant night wakings so much?
I just want to give up, I know it will be worse, but I'm just tired of trying so hard. Please just say something nice to me I just feel like it will never change.
Anneke

[momofclaire]

AP-Sweetie, I am so sorry you are having a rough time.  Believe me, I remember those days.  When Claire was 6-7 months I had the hardest time.  One time I even had to let her cry a little at nap time as I just couldn't take it.     You are doing great.  YES teeth can really bother little ones.

Can you post what your sch has been like? What have you tried to extend naps?

[AP]

Still kind of the same
7wake up feed, sometimes 6:40wake
nap around 9ish sometimes I still get to extend this nap with W2S, to and hour or hour and half, some days it is only an half hour.
11feed
so it depends on her first nap when she goes down again, any time from 12-1 (hasn't made it to one in a while)-30min
If both naps was only 30min, I try and put her down bfore 3 again.
3feed
If the first nap was longer she takes a 30min nap around 4.
bath at 6;15, feed at 6:30
bed at 6:45
Now that her teeth started cutting she started crying again going down for naps, after it has gone soooo well! So I hate having to do so many naps!!! I live in a community where the houses are close together, and sometimes she sounds like her arm is being sawed off. It is so awful.

[momofclaire]

How does she go down for naps?

Teeth really can do a number on naps and sleep in general.

[AP]

Until sunday she went down beautifully, without a peep. (I put her down awake). Then the screaming started again, so that I have to do pu/pd. But she did this when her previous teeth was cutting also.
The last 2 nights has been horrendous, last night she woke up at 1 then it is pretty easy to pat her to sleep again, but then after that she wakes up every 10min or so, now the first few times, she goes down great, but after that she starts getting upset, grabs hold of my fingers and will not let go until eventually she is in a screaming frenzy and I have to result to pu/pd. now this is around 3:30am(so she woke up alot in the 2 hours) I also did give her some pain syrup for her teeth. Eventually after what feels like an hour pu/pd works and she calms down and falls asleep, just to wake again after 10min   , around 4:30. So she has been awake on and of, and me the whole time, from 1-4:30! By that time I just wanted to leave her to cry and never return. But I was so exhausted that I ended up feeding her! Now this is my husbands comments: "man, the BW knows !" and he was the star pu/pd-ner. We are both just overtired and ready just to let her cry??? the previous night was the same, just to a lesser degree.
So being tired and very emotional, makes it very difficult to handle the short naps crying spells before naps in the day!
There she wakes up after a 20 min nap at 12:30!!!!!!!
I cant any more!

[momofclaire]

Ok Ok.  First, did you last night, or have you been, leaving her to cry?

[momofclaire]

I think you may have a baby who is really sensitive to teeth cutting.  It sounds like she was doing better until the teeth started again.  I would give her a dose of motrin before bed and see if that helps any.  If it does, then you know you are dealing with pain. A baby who repeatedly wakes like that is usually in pain, hungry or overtired.  I think you are dealing with overtired and possibly pain. 

[AP]

I've only let her cry for a few minutes to see if she would go back to sleep by herself, I have been very tempted though.
I don't know what motrin is or what the equivalent is here is. I used panado syrup, don't know if you know what it is. If she is to overtired, would she not rather wake the first bit of the night. And how do I deal with it, bc the lack of sleep at night makes her overtired in the day, then she sleeps even shorter, and is still overtired. A vicious circle, that I don't know how to stop it. I don't think she is hungry as she has gone through quite a few times. She went down really good for her last nap, which was a big blessing! Is the teething ever going to stop though?? Don't they just keep coming? I don't think I can handle any more.

[debo620]

Hi there, just thought I'd see if I could help at all.

I definately agree that those teeth are really throwing you for a loop, and that overtiredness from bad naps, bad nights etc. is not helping. I think a lot of things like teething, SA etc is worse when they are overtired.

Motrin is ibuprophen based which basically reduces the swelling as well as pain. this is quite different than acetominophen products (Tylenol)which purely reduces pain but not swelling. could you check at your pharmacy to see if there are any products that are ibuprophen based? Sometimes they work better at night as they supposedly last longer.

So naps:
I think its time to extend the first A time just slightly,

wake 7
nap 9:30-11, extending this nap if need be
eat 11
nap 1:30-3
catnap 5 for 30min
bed 7/7:30


are you using PUPD for naps? maybe its time to try.
I had a chronic short napper
and litterally spent every feed cycle, with nap 40, PUPD for 40, and then sleep another 40 which brought us to the next feed. It was absolutely terrible but it worked. eventually, if he woke after 40min then he would put himself back to sleep.
with PUPD the A time really has to be age appropriate, I think that she is not quite awake long enough in the am to want to sleep for longer for that first nap and that second nap is probably short due to OT from first nap. KWIM?

At 6months we still had 1 night feed and I don't think this is unreasonable especially without a Dreamfeed. we had 2 night feed which had become a bit habitual. So what we did was, if he woke before 2am then it was PUPD by my husband and then I would feed after 2am, this worked well, but it only took a few nights. I also changed the bedtime feeding to a formula bottle at around 9months after which point he started sleeping the whole night.

I think you are doing a fabulous job and doing eveything right by going to your daughter in the night when she is crying and needs you.   

I may have missed a few things, let me know if there is anything else.
 

[AP]

It was really her teeth, bc one came through some time yest. And she slept sooo much better, she woke up once in mid of night, but put herself back to sleep, then drank again just somewhere before 5! Also she went down wonderfully for her naps again today!
Ok I think I'll try to extend her am wake time. I've really tried to avoid PU/PD to extend naps, how long did it take you? I don't want to do weeks of it??   Like I said I live in a community, and after 20min somebody will be wondering if I'm doing something to her. I'm to scared to try. It did work to get her to go to sleep at 4mnts though. She doesn't wake up crying though, how do you do PU/Pd with a happy kid? Why do other peoples babies do it by themselves?
Not sure about finding that pain stuff, I live in Zambia, rural Africa, but can check. My in laws could send it from the States, but it will take a bit long, could use it for the next teeth coming.

[debo620]

well I am glad the sleeping has been better, so the naps were longer yesterday? maybe the teething was the culprit.

I still think you could slowly extend the morning A time and see if she naps a little longer.
no you cant use pupd on a happy child, usually thats an indication that they were not tired enough in the first place.

PUPD is up to you, it takes alot of work and alot of crying and certainly can take some time. for us it was a number of weeks. My son was a bit younger the time, and after the age of 6months he really started sleeping better. They sort of develop this as they get older. Again their A times have to be appropriate, we were at 2.5 hrs in the morning from the age of like 5months onward, which lasted quite a few months.

[AP]

Sorry, couldn't get connected 4 a few days. No her naps wasn't longer.  Now the other tooth is cutting, so nights is bad again, and going down for naps also, although this morning was actually good for a change, and I see more is coming on the bottom, is there a break from them coming sometime? I've been doing 2.5 activity in the morning sometimes even a bit longer, but it hasn't worked yet. 35min at most!!
Sometimes I just feel a bit cheated, been working for so hard for so long, and here my friend's baby,  same age who is not even on a proper schedule, and gets rocked to sleep, just started sleeping longer consistently!? Yest was one of those bad days, and I just wanted to escape! First time in my life I can't just take a days break from what I'm doing.