Fusses for ages after 3.30am

[October]

Hi,

I've posted on my DS' penchant for early a.m. wakings before but now we know (a) he isn't hungry and (b) he is waking at c.3.30am. I know the best thing is likely to be w2s but can anyone tell me a method that worked ? I tried stirring him when his naps shortened to 45 minutes or less a while back with mixed results... I don't intervene for his naps now and he generally goes through to 1.5 hrs just fine.

Also, we've had a difficult time soothing with a paci and whilst I got him back to sleep a couple of nights ago by popping in the paci, it didn't work this a.m. When should we try the paci ? When he first starts fussing or only after a full blown cry ?  He can fuss on and off (and then start yelling) for hours...

HELP !

[momofclaire]

W2S worked for me to end a habitual 5:30 waking.  It does take few days to change the habit but it did work. I wouldn't try anything until he is really crying, going in to early may discourage him from trying to settle himself.

[October]

Thanks !
He can take ages to build up to a cry and half the time we think it's because he hates his wet diapers (as it is he is double-diapered with an Overnite underneath and a Pampers size 3 he now needs on top)...He's always soaking wet when we change him at that time.

This morning at 3.36am I tried to re-settle him after a diaper change (he had a leak) and he wouldn't go down. Seems to be programmed for food (not always though) so I fed him 2oz plus 2oz water and he went down till we woke him.

I'll try w2s tonight as he wouldn't eat his breakfast well (only managed 5oz of his usual 7oz) so he clearly doesn't need the food in the early hours.

The paci also doesn't work very well. Think we had a one-off result a few nights ago....He tends to refuse it or let it go too quickly. Always has.   

[momofclaire]

What kind of overnight are you using?  We use Huggies and really like them.  It could be that he has developed a feed/sleep association.   Do you feed him to sleep at night? 

[October]

He uses Huggies Overnites. Must have put it on badly as he never leaked before with them.
He is fed good and proper at night (12oz bt. 5pm and 6.30pm feeds) and whilst he goes down brilliantly for naps now (sleeps 2x1.5 hrs then sometimes 1.5 hrs but usually 45 mins. in the pm.)...he is tricky going to bed at 6.30-7pm. He tends to be gassy, asking for more food or just plain playful. Should we keep him up to read/have quiet time after his bedtime drink to break the connection ? That would be unusual yes ?

Do you think he associates nighttime with a very full tummy ? How do I break it ? Cold turkey not appealing as he is a very very determined guy (had a very bleak prognosis on Day One at on his first day with his lungs so we KNOW he has a will of iron to have turned that situation around...) He's gassy (doc. says he likely has reflux but not significantly so) due to milk/soy protein allergy snd he's on stinky Alimentum. Had the OK for rice cereal but we're not going there for 2 more months (he's actual age is 6 months but was 2 months early).

Thoughts ?

Paci doesn't work consistently enough. Sometimes he wants to eat, others he'll go quiet on his own, so the inconsistency is what irks me so....... :-(   

[momofclaire]

Do you put him down awake or does he fall asleep with that last bottle?  Can you post his entire day sch?  He looks like he's getting good naps but I wouldn't let him take any longer than a 34-45 min cat nap as that may make him not ready for bed.   

I would bet he doesn't need to be fed at night but wakes and finds it hard to go back to sleep without a bit of a snack.  You could go cold turkey and try to settle him to sleep without the bottle or you could try watering the bottle down.  It seems like you are only giving a couple oz so watering it down probably wont change anything except make him a bit more hungry in the morning.  A diaper change may also be a bit to much activity for the middle of the night. I would try to eliminate the need for that.  Keeping him up about a half hour after his last drink should allow him to pee and then a quick diaper change as part of windown. 

[October]

Hi again MoC,

His schedule is mostly working well (save the lack of catnap) :-

E - 7am
S - 8.30 or earlier if he woke early
E - 10.30am or later if he isn't hungry
S - midday - he's usually really in need of this one and can go 2 hours
E - 2pm
S - 3.30-4pm - difficult nap, usually 45 mins. only
E - 5pm, only later if he sleeps 1.5 hours
S - 6.30-7pm, whenever we can settle him
DF 10-10.30pm

I can't change him at DF so we'll have to see if those Overnites can hold his last ozs in !!
TBH, we have tried "cold turkey" last few nights but he can fuss for ages, sometimes sleeping in between which makes him v.tired by 7am. We'll definitely do it again over a w/e when DH can help ! Paci would be good if it worked...and like you say, the watering down seems futile as he used to take 2-3 oz at 3.30am (for ages when we first tried weaning at this time).

Guess that leaves me with w2s which I'll try for a good few nights. The naps seemed to self-correct as when I stepped back from doing w2s after about a week he extended his naps all by himself. This waking is a little more entrenched though so we have to bite the bullet...YIKES ... he can yell like a good 'un !!   
 
 

[momofclaire]

Could he be ready for a bit more A time?  At 6 months babies can usually handle 2 hours.  I am unsure if because of hi early birth that still applies.

[October]

I;ve bnever been sure of anything other than his overall development being tied to corrected age till 1-2 years. We have Kindermusik classes in 2 weeks and I'd love to have him napping till 11am and then at 2pm so I can go knowing he won't have a paddy.

I have been thinking he can move to the 4-hour schedule for A time as he certainly is OK for E !! Amazingly enough given his never-ending passion for Alimentum - have you smelt that stuff ?!!     

[momofclaire]

I think he's probably ready for a bit more A time.  I would gradually move to a four hour.  Maybe even stop around the 3.5 hour just to make sure things are going well.  I think more A time will encourage him to sleep a bit better. I would aim for 2, 1.5 hour naps and an evening cat nap 35-45 min.   I have not smelled Alimentium.  Doesn't sound good though.

[October]

 
Thanks for the steer. We are already on 3.5 hr EASY after weeks of 4 hr and DS getting overtired. He may well be ready to inch forward but fussed a bit just now going down for his first nap (always v. keen to get back to bed !).

W2s lasted from till 4.20am so some improvement already. I'll stick with it but my LO is a light sleeper...always ready for his DF. Not exactly wide awake but still tries to help with the bottle nevertheless....

[ericaantesberger]

W2S worked for me to end a habitual 5:30 waking.  It does take few days to change the habit but it did work. I wouldn't try anything until he is really crying, going in to early may discourage him from trying to settle himself.

What is W2S?

[October]

W2s is wake to sleep. Guess you've read about it in Tracy's book ? I've had issues with short naps so worked on stirring my LO 10 minutes before I expected him to wake....think it worked after about a week of trying as he now typically takes 2 x 1.5hr naps..plus one short one.

I think a lot of mums prefer the other method of holding the baby down through the jerks that wake them at the end of their 45 min. sleep cycle. My LO is spirited (with a big "S") so we couldn't do that ...made him more awake. He is also used to PU/PD (pickup/put down) so I was also able to extend his naps when he actually awoke at 45 mins. by picking him up and holding him v.briefly, then putting him back down in a new position...odd, how you find some things work by accident...

       

[October]

OK, so maybe this was a one-day-trial, but having extended only the first A time today by 15 mins. I've had nap problems all day. First 2 were 1 hr 25 mins (?) and 3rd one only 30 mins.

May be too soon for 4 hr EASY ?   

[October]

Forgot to mention that bedtimes have been a long drawn out affair in the last 2 weeks. LO seems not to want to go down after longest A timew of the  day...won't catnap !!

[momofclaire]

October-Can you post yesterdays sch?  You may want to work in 5 min increments when extending A time.

[ericaantesberger]

I think he's probably ready for a bit more A time.  I would gradually move to a four hour.  Maybe even stop around the 3.5 hour just to make sure things are going well.  I think more A time will encourage him to sleep a bit better. I would aim for 2, 1.5 hour naps and an evening cat nap 35-45 min.   I have not smelled Alimentium.  Doesn't sound good though.

What is A time?

[October]

Err, yesterday's routine was novel....went out on the water for 3 hours and Felix didn't nap so he was up for X hours ! Slept till 4.30am though (apart from light waking at DF which he always does - goes down OK and it seems to help with later a.m. wakings so I'm sticking with it for now).

I'll extend A time when he's rested from yesterday, in 5 min. increments then.

Re. w2s, if he now wakes at 4.30am. instead of 3.30am, do I do w2s at 3.30a.m. instead and hope he moves to 5.30am wakings ?? That part has me foxed.......