Constant NW, at lost

[Ruggie]

Hi

I am back again after 2 month (I think) , not because we have another NW problem, its the same one. DH and I are desperate for sleep, and I am falling apart.

DS#2, "B" has just turned 1 last week. He has been waking EVERY night for the past 2/3 month. Anytime between 3-4:30.
When he wakes we try to resettle him by patting/rubbing, if we lucky, he goes back to sleep, for about 10-20 minsthen repeat, only this time we usually cant get him to go back. He would lie in his cot and after a while stand up and cry.
We (either DH or I) would stay coz he cries if we leave (sounds scared, sepeartion anxiety I think). When its gets close to morning, we would give him his bottle, sometimes he goes back to sleep, sometimes not (that means our days started at 4 sometimes)

Day routine wise, I have tried:

- morning nap & after after 3.5 hrs awake for 1.5-2 hrs (max 4hr) bed time 7-7;30
- morning nap of 1.5-2 hrs and 45 min cat nap (max 3hr) bed time 7-7:30
- 1 big day time nap of 2-2.5 hr and settle him earlier like 6:30
Each routine I would try for at least a week, all yield the pretty much the same NWs

Bedtime routine wise, Bath, bottle and bed. We try our best to get him to fall asleep independantly, most of the time he does, (some times he passed out on his bottle)

Both Dh and I are not functioning right now and please help us!

[FionaS]

Hi There.  Sorry to hear things are tough for you.  What is his daytime food / milk intake like? 

It sounds a little but like habit combined with other issues such as separation anxiety.  Prior to the previous couple of months, what were his nights like? 

I suspect habit has a lot to do with it and i'm wondering if you have become a bit of a prop.  If you pat him to sleep in the night, he probably wakes up 10mins later wondering where you are.  The key may be to teach him to return to sleep without you patting / rubbing.    Does he ever resettle himself in the night or do you think he calls to you whenever he wakes?

Hopefully we will be able to give you some pointers to teach him to return to sleep independently in the night.

[momofclaire]

Poor guy sounds like he's having a tough time!  Not to fun for mom and dad either.  I think you should try to pick a sch that offers him the least opportunity to become overtired and stick with it for a while.  It sounds like the night wakings are made worse by separation anxiety although letting him pass out on the bottle may be causing a feed/sleep association that will be made worse if you give the bottle in the early morning and he goes to sleep with that as well.   We he wakes what is he like?  Is he upset very quickly or does he fuss for a while and then go to a full cry?  Does he want to play?

Does he have a lovie?
The transition to one nap is sometimes a tough one.  If you think he can handle the one nap great but since you are having some night time issues I would be sure to avoid overtired because that will certainly complicate things.

Hope that helps
Myia

[Ruggie]

What happened to my reply post

Anyway, Thanks for the replies ladies

He 1st slept thru at 10 month and only did so for 1 week when he was really sick, and we haven't really slept since

My gut feelings tell me he just doesn't like to be alone and cries out for our company when he wakes.
When he wakes, he pretty much cries immediately, often mouth wide open before eyes.
I slept in his room once noticed that when he wakes and we PD, he would fusses about and roll around for a while and then tries to pull himself up to a stand, looks at me and smiles. Call out when I dont respond (pretending to be a sleep or not looking at him) until he cries.
He gets really worked up and cries as if his world is falling apart if we leave the room, so I gues it seperation anxiety big time, and we have obviously done some big AP, as Fiona points out I think we are now his prop.

What to do???
 

[momofclaire]

You could try gradual withdraw, or stick with pd but be 100% consistant.  I would also try to avoid overtired because that will just make life harder.   

There is a lady in my birth club who advised me to introduce a word at night.  It really helped me get through SA and the final step in Claire going to bed with NO help from me.  I started by saying "night night" over and over and over for a couple of weeks.  Now I just say night night and she says it back and we are done!  That may help.

[Sylvia.]

ok so i didn't understand what you meant by, what happened to my reply post? all i can say is what happened to my reply post, sorry that it was lost, something funny going on i am sure, anyway i'll try again

first of all poor you and poor dh, it has been tough for you for guys for ages,

i have done heaps of reading and for me what I THINK is that you should try to continue with two naps, sorry, but maybe just try and limit it to say 45ish minutes, from what i have read and learnt is that the morning nap can rob night sleep, also some babies just do not need as much sleep as other, you ds might be one of these, with then a longer nap in the afternoon

with all the problems you have had i am sure that your ds has delveloped some sleep habits

anything before 6am in my opinion is night time

also do you think that you could try feeding before the bath just to rule out sa, with dd1 i did as you did and it never mattered, with some babies it does and with others it doesn't, just not sure with your ds

as hard as it is going to be to remember i want a blow by blow about what happened last night

i was also thinking gradual withdrawal

CONSISTANCY i agree

i am wondering also overtired with all the nwings

i must say this seperation anxiety really worries me, i have never had anything to do with it, so i wonder how this impacts night sleep

[momofclaire]

For us SA at night presented like this.  Claire would cry and cry when I put her to bed "mama mama mama,"  she would settle to sleep but in the middle of the night wake with little crys saying "mama."  I would walk in and she would look so relieved lay down and close her eyes. I then could wake right out. I think what was happening was that she woke and feared that I had dissapeared.  It took a week or two for her to stop doing that.

[Ruggie]

Hello ladies

Sylvia: I posted, before, seems it disappeared too.

Anyway,

Today I put him to an am nap earlier and he went for 1.5 and then 45 min in the afternoon.
BUT the biggest achivement for us was I was able to settled tonight B WITHOUT me being in his room.

I moved our chair outside his room, left the door slightly ajar and can see my back. Basically he talked to himself (or me, I dont kow) and then sat down. had 1 WI and WO and he slept by himself Wooohhoooo.

I think I weaning him off my presence....i think...fingers crossed

[Sylvia.]

sounds good, i am happy dancing for you tonight

[Colin Macs Mom]

Good for you Loanne!!! 

[Ruggie]

Despite a good day and settling last night, he woke at 4am crying. I went in PD WO and sat at the same spot, he talked to himself for about 20min and then started crying and stand up, so it was WI/PD WO dance for the next 20 min. He was crying louder and I am more tired. 50 min later I gave him a dummy and WO, he slept for about 10 min, repeat then it was DH's to do the dance til 6 am.
So the verdict is that he woke at 4, slept on and off from 5-6. I put him down for a morning nap at 10 again and intend to repeats yesturday's day.

Still waiting for that sleep cure....
 

[Sylvia.]

i wish i had more to say and more to offer other than my support and hugs, be consistent

how long did he sleep this morning?

what about the afternoon nap? how many hours are you behind us? you must be fast approaching nap time

lucy is less than two months younger than you ds and wakes between 6.20ish and 7am, mostly she is woken by her dd1, anyway she goes down for the night around 7.30pm, anyway i put he down for her morning nap at 9.15-9.45am depending on the wake, she always goes down easy and i always wake her up, never let her sleep more than 60-75 minutes, if we are out i put her down at 10am and wake her at 11am, her afternoon nap is 1.45pmish, the last few days she has woken herself after 90 minutes but mostly i have to also wake her from this nap

just wondered if you need to look at you day routine, do you belong to a birth club, if not come join us, may/june 2006, if you do belong to one could you ask them for their routines, someone is always asking in our birthclub and no one ever minds

just trying really hard to help you my friend

be back later

[momofclaire]

I agree, be consistant.  It will get better. Hang in there.

[Colin Macs Mom]

Definitely, it takes some time so be consistent and patient (haha I know)   

[Ruggie]

I am so glad to knwo I have you ladies to sort this out. *hugs* to you all

Thanks Sylvia, Good to know you are looking out for me *hugs*
Jessica, thought we had this problem behind us hey? Thanks for being here as always

Last 2 days I put him down at 10ish and he nap for 1.5 hour and then nap at 3:30ish.  Bed time 7:30ish
Progress
Day 1 woke at 3am
Day 2 woke at 4:10am

Today tho (day 3) refuse pm nap, even tried taking him for a drive so ended up PD to bed at 6:30. Too tired to have dinner too. So dont know whats going to happen.

  

Must admit, Iam getting to the point of being too tired to care.