Dream Feed an Answer When Pacifier Contents?

[Sugarmama]

Hi there,
We tried a DF at 3 mos.--didn't change wakings any, so we stopped. Now, at 19 weeks, Josie awakens at night and will accept the pacifier rather than a bottle. (She was eating only 3 oz. anyway when we last tried feeding her at night.) We are worried about the pacifier prop problem, as she is hard to take the paci from. Plus, she seems to be waking more often for it now after two and a half weeks of this or so. I'm worried that a DF might make her eat even less during reg. day, as we struggle to get our spirited one to be interested in the bottle past 3-4 oz. every four hours. But will it even address our problem is she isn't spitting out paci in hunger during the night? (We think she might be waking because she wants to self-soothe but is swaddled and tries to wiggle out--have to swaddle, she is so darned hard to settle for sleep as it is.) Any ideas?
Thanks!

[Sugarmama]

By the way, I should also have asked, do I need to be thinking along the lines of Pu/PD instead of paci? My spirited baby has always seemed to HATE shush/pat. We have tried PU/PD, but that, too, seems to set her off. So we resort during naps to just entering and putting our hands on her chest/legs until she settles down. I hope this is far enough from CIO. We hope she knows that we are "there" with her.

[Colin Macs Mom]

How old is she now?

Don't worry, she knows that you are there with her, and you're doing nothing even close to CIO. I actually did the same thing with my DS because he also hated shhh/pat and PU/PD never worked - it sometimes doesn't with a spirited LO.

[Sugarmama]

She is nearly 20 weeks old.

[Colin Macs Mom]

Oh sorry, I guess I didn't see it in your original post    Personally, I would keep doing what you're doing, but think carefully about using the paci. It might help for now, but eventually it will become a prop if it's not already and you'll find yourself getting up a myriad of times to replace it.

[Sugarmama]

So instead of using the paci, you would do another soothing method; in my case hands on chest/legs because she hates shh/pat and pu/pd?

Also, in a related question, the last few nights, she has been waking at 5 or 6. She's not crying quickly anymore. Instead, she is babbling to herself as though she's fully awake and ready to get up. Following Tracy's advice and Dr. Brazelton's, I have been letting her talk to herself (even if she's unswaddled), even if it goes on for an hour. This until she either falls back asleep (albeit briefly) or starts to cry. At that point, then, I go in and reswaddle if needed and give her the paci to fall back asleep.

Any thoughts on this?

[Colin Macs Mom]

So instead of using the paci, you would do another soothing method; in my case hands on chest/legs because she hates shh/pat and pu/pd?

Definitely!!

Also, in a related question, the last few nights, she has been waking at 5 or 6. She's not crying quickly anymore. Instead, she is babbling to herself as though she's fully awake and ready to get up. Following Tracy's advice and Dr. Brazelton's, I have been letting her talk to herself (even if she's unswaddled), even if it goes on for an hour. This until she either falls back asleep (albeit briefly) or starts to cry. At that point, then, I go in and reswaddle if needed and give her the paci to fall back asleep.

Any thoughts on this?

This is very normal and you're doing just the right thing    It's a part of the independent sleep process. As annoying as it can be to listen to, just leave her be unless she really cries for you and get her up at normal time. She will soon learn that she needs to be sleeping.

[Sugarmama]

Okay, can I admit my fright at trying another soothing method than the paci for those 5-6 a.m. wakings. Here's why: For her naps, I do the hands-on-her method. She might cry for a while--sometimes a long time, but I KNOW she has more sleep in her. I don't use the paci at all for either the wind-down or the soothing back to sleep for naps--with the exception of if I have company and feel like I should return to them sooner than the 20 min. it might take me to soothe. And this is rare, so I haven't felt very guilty over that.

For those wakings from night sleep, however, she seems sooo wide awake, happy to see me when I come in to give her the paci, etc., that I think the hands-on-her method v. the paci use will take a LONG, BITTER time. I'm willing to do it if you think the paci use will become a problem, but for how long should I try to put her back to bed at 5-6 a.m. using hands-on-chest? The other concern I have, then, is that she'll want to take her a.m. nap wayyyy early because she's so tired and, thus, throw off her routine quite a bit. Not a big deal if it's a few days, but is that all it will take?

Needing reassurance,
Sugarmama

[Colin Macs Mom]

It sounds like she wakes pretty consistently at around 5am-ish, yes? I would try wake to sleep first and see if you can just eliminate it that way. Then you don't have to make a choice.   

I can guarantee that the paci will become a prop eventually if not sooner. If that's ok with you and you choose to use it knowing that, there's nothing wrong with that. I did it myself. Just understand that it WILL be something else to fix somewhere down the road. If you don't mind that, then go for it!

[Sugarmama]

Thanks for the info. Yes, 5 a.m. is pretty consistent. Well, okay, last week she slept until 6 a couple of days, and two mornings ago, she slept until 6, so maybe it's not pretty consistent. So do you think I ought to try W2S still?

If so, I saw a primer on that somewhere, so I'll check that out. Anything about it particular to this situation that you think I should know? I want to educate myself before I do anything, as I agree with Tracy and her grandma: "Start as you mean to go on." So far, I've been afraid I'll "give in" and just go back to the paci, so I wanted to be ready.

You say that you used the paci, too. So how did you end up having to deal with the problem later on?

By the way, how long is it fair for me to expect her to stay in the crib in the morning. Currently, she gets to sleep anywhere from 7:15 pm to 7:45 pm. We are trying to make this more consistent, but some nights it's harder than others to get her through her bottle, settled down, etc. And if Dad is trying to get her to sleep, oh goodness, who knows what time she'll settle!

Thanks again!

[Colin Macs Mom]

Thanks for the info. Yes, 5 a.m. is pretty consistent. Well, okay, last week she slept until 6 a couple of days, and two mornings ago, she slept until 6, so maybe it's not pretty consistent. So do you think I ought to try W2S still?

Why not, you have nothing to lose right? You'll be up at that time either way.

If so, I saw a primer on that somewhere, so I'll check that out. Anything about it particular to this situation that you think I should know? I want to educate myself before I do anything, as I agree with Tracy and her grandma: "Start as you mean to go on." So far, I've been afraid I'll "give in" and just go back to the paci, so I wanted to be ready.

Yes, that quote is very important and couldn't be more true! Keep that in the front of your mind, it's a great motivator!  I don't think there's anything else in particular that you should know really.

You say that you used the paci, too. So how did you end up having to deal with the problem later on?

Colin still has a paci           at 20 mo. We had actually never planned to give him one in the first place, but I am unable to BF and he had a very strong need to suck so that was our only option. By the time he was a few months old the paci addiction was absurd, so we took it away cold turkey. He didn't even notice or care for about 3 days, but then it sort of sunk in and BOY was he mad! At that time we re-introduced it in the crib only. That worked beautifully - it actually did not become a prop for quite a long time, but of course it was only a matter of time until it did again. It helps when they're old enough to find and replace it themselves though.

Once he's done with the current teething phase we are eliminating it once and for all. Not looking forward to it!  I really wish that we had just stuck with the cold turkey way back when.

By the way, how long is it fair for me to expect her to stay in the crib in the morning. Currently, she gets to sleep anywhere from 7:15 pm to 7:45 pm. We are trying to make this more consistent, but some nights it's harder than others to get her through her bottle, settled down, etc. And if Dad is trying to get her to sleep, oh goodness, who knows what time she'll settle!

I would say about 11 hours. That can vary a little of course.

[Sugarmama]

You can do the paci wean! Think of it this way: You are an example for all of us, and we need to know it's possible   (I am living vicariously through you!)

 

Clarifications:
Yesterday she didn't eat much. She'd only take 1/2 oz. during DF. Could be why she woke at 4 am. So if her wakings are anywhere from 4-6, when would I do W2S?

Also, if she's been in crib for 11 hrs. at 6 a.m., would I just take her out and do quiet time until 7 feed? What constitutes quiet time? Letting her play on the floor?

Thanks!

[Colin Macs Mom]

You can do the paci wean! Think of it this way: You are an example for all of us, and we need to know it's possible   (I am living vicariously through you!)

LOL, thanks I'm glad someone things I can do it!! 

Yesterday she didn't eat much. She'd only take 1/2 oz. during DF. Could be why she woke at 4 am. So if her wakings are anywhere from 4-6, when would I do W2S?

Does she normally take so little at DF? If so, then it's time to quit offering it. As for W2S timing, if there's a time, like say 4:30, that she wakes at more commonly, then do it about 30 min before that.

Also, if she's been in crib for 11 hrs. at 6 a.m., would I just take her out and do quiet time until 7 feed? What constitutes quiet time? Letting her play on the floor?

Play on the floor, read books, that sort of thing. Anything that's not too stimulating for her.

[Sugarmama]

As for the DF, she will take anywhere from 0-4 oz. How little would I accept before quitting it?

Also, I just saw the posting in Bottle Feeding on Dysphagia. Josie has all the symptoms, so I am thinking of taking her in for that--am waiting two more days to see if other techniques don't up her intake. So this Dysphagia could be a culprit for bad DF's, too, I suppose.

[Colin Macs Mom]

Interesting about the dysphagia - definitely can't hurt to talk it over with her doc. Especially if she has all the symptoms!

How many oz does she take in a normal daytime feed?