Author Topic: Timing - how strict?  (Read 1284 times)

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Offline Tanners Mom

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Timing - how strict?
« on: April 26, 2007, 16:44:54 pm »
Hi Ladies!
I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this so feel free to move it!

I'm just wondering how strict I should be with times - mainly bedtime and wake time. Basically, since his 'bedtime' is 7pm - do I wake him from his last nap to preserve this? Do I wake him from his first nap to preserve the timing of the second?

Here's our routine from yesterday:

6:30 awake
6:45 BF
7:45 solids
8:30 - 11:15 nap (I woke him!)
11:15 BF
1:15 solids
2:15 BF (didn't want to wait since I knew I would be putting him down for a nap)
2:30 - 4:50 nap (again...I woke him!)
5pm solids
7pm BF
7:30pm in bed and falling asleep (I didn't dare put him down earlier as he protests VEHEMENTLY if he is not tired enough ::))

Then...in the middle of the night he was up from 2am till 3:30 - I nursed him and then he just cried and cried (unusual). I think I figured he was teething so I gave him some teething tablets and nursed him again and he was back off to sleep. Since he had that long awake stretch in the night - I let him sleep till 7:30am.

SO...should I have waken him at 7am this morning? Should I have waken him up even earlier from the first nap? Earlier from the second nap?

I admit - it's unusual that I have to wake him at all......

What are your thoughts? Should I limit the naps? Wake him in the AM regardless? I'm trying to get him on a good biorhythm.

I appreciate any advice!
~Jaci
Jaci
Mom to Tanner Miles (born 10.13.06) and DS2 (due 10.24.09)

Offline Grace's Mom

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Re: Timing - how strict?
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2007, 00:20:02 am »
Good evening!   :)

Wow, your lo takes really long naps.  :D  When did he switch over to 2 naps? 

At this age 'most' babies are still at 2 longer naps with a 3rd short cat nap just a bit before bed (of course that is just the 'average'). 
-He may be waking in the middle of the night (for 1.5 hours) due to too much day time sleep.  I think you should limit his naps just a bit ( to anwer your question).  Just a thought.

Re: A times....You have your lo awake 2 hours, then 3+ hours then 2.5 hours.  You might want to try 2, 2.5 then 3 hours. He may be more tired at bed time for you and go to sleep a bit better and his naps might alter a bit too for you.

To answer your questions....

Waking a baby from a nap is ok.  :) For us right now if my daughter sleep longer than 30-45 minutes in the morning her pm nap is shot so I need to wake her if she sleeps longer on any particular day. You want to do what you know is best for your lo so if you know that it will help than by all means, wake the cutie pie!

Also, if you want your day to start at a certain time and he has a tendency to sleep past that time every once in awhile then feel free to wake him.  It is actually a good thing as it will help set their internal clock and eventually he just might start waking on his own at that time everday.  I wish I needed to wake mine in the morning. ;)  I would love for her to sleep in until 7am but no matter what we do she wakes between 6-6:45am.  She is just determined to be an early riser  ::) ;D

For our bedtimes, we kind of know it's going to be between 6:30/7:30....usually averaging 7pm.  You can definitely wake your lo up from the last nap to preserve this bedtime.  It is also good for them to go to bed around the same time every night.  Of course our lo's needs change a bit from day to day, just like ours do, so always leave some room for a small change here and there.

Best of luck.  You are doing a wonderful job!

Melissa 


 

I am so in love with my husband and adore my precious Grace

Grace April 2006
Blog: http://graceadelyn.blogspot.com/

Offline Tanners Mom

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Re: Timing - how strict?
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2007, 01:58:38 am »
Hi Melissa!
Thanks for the reply!  ;D

OK...so honestly - his naps are JUST getting longer. If you were to peruse the sleep boards you would see my post from last week - yikes! Basically he was ready to drop the catnap and I wasn't 'getting it'. Now his A-times are longer and he's taking nice long naps again.

Today was more 'normal':

7:30 wake
7:45 BF
8:45 solids
9:30 - 11:15 nap
11:45 BF
12:45 solids
1:30 -4 nap
4:15 BF
5:15 solids
6pm bath
6:30 BF
7:00 asleep

Quote (selected)
Re: A times....You have your lo awake 2 hours, then 3+ hours then 2.5 hours.  You might want to try 2, 2.5 then 3 hours.

I tried this yesterday - he SCREAMED and wouldn't stop.  :-\ But I know that scream and it means he just wasn't ready. So I got him up and let him play for a bit more and then nursed him (that was the 2:15 BF) and did wind down again - and he went down great. I assume that b/c he had that HUGE nap in the AM - he could do the super long A-time?

Good to know about the bedtime - it's so much easier to aim for 6:30 - 7:30 instead of a hard and fast 7pm. I didn't know if this +/- 30 minutes would mess with their internal clock.

Thanks again for the reply. BTW - I love the verse you have in your signature - a very good reminder to me!

HTH
~Jaci
Jaci
Mom to Tanner Miles (born 10.13.06) and DS2 (due 10.24.09)

Offline Grace's Mom

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Re: Timing - how strict?
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2007, 18:25:46 pm »
Glad to hear today went well! :D :D

LOL about his naps just getting longer. ;D  We went through a crazy phase from about 6-9 months of only short 30 minutes naps  ::)  It drove me bonkers but really made me learn to be more laid back, iykwim.   

"But I know that scream and it means he just wasn't ready"  I always say that mommy knows best so good for your for knowing what his cry/scream meant.  That is wonderful.  Stick with what is working for him and you!

Yeah, I use to stress if something wasn't right on time, but I have learned that it's more important to follow what they need then to worry about a specific time.  As long as there is some kind of routine (EAS) and they aren't overtired and are eating and sleeping well you are doing a fabulous job! 

Hope things continue to go well for you.

Melissa
I am so in love with my husband and adore my precious Grace

Grace April 2006
Blog: http://graceadelyn.blogspot.com/

Offline Tanners Mom

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Re: Timing - how strict?
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2007, 20:32:51 pm »
Hi Melissa!
Whenever Tanner gets 'off' on his sleep - it totally drives me bonkers. But I hope that slowly I'm getting more laid back and can go with the flow!

Last night Tanner did the same thing - woke for a feed and wouldn't resettle without nursing another time. I posted in the NW boards to see what the mods there had to say. We are thinking either teething or solids.  ??? He was up for 1.5 hours again (so of course, was I  :-\).

Thanks for your reply and help!  ;D
~Jaci
Jaci
Mom to Tanner Miles (born 10.13.06) and DS2 (due 10.24.09)

Offline NiknLily

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Re: Timing - how strict?
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2007, 21:44:34 pm »
Hi, just a thought and I may be barking up the wrong tree here, but he still seems to be getting a lot of sleep.  It looks like he had 4hrs 15 naps and 12.5hrs night (if he hadn't woke up for 1.5hrs that is) thats a total of 16hrs 45mins, this could just be too much sleep which could be why when he wakes at night it is taking a while before he will settle back to sleep.  My DD needed a lot of sleep until she dropped the catnap, then when things settled down from this she suddenly took a huge leap in how long she could stay awake and went from sleeping a solid 12hrs at night to 11.5hrs and total nap time dropped from 3 to 2.5hrs.


Offline Grace's Mom

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Re: Timing - how strict?
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2007, 22:11:32 pm »
Hope you can get some more sleep tonight.  :-* :-* :-*
I am so in love with my husband and adore my precious Grace

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Blog: http://graceadelyn.blogspot.com/

Offline Tanners Mom

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Re: Timing - how strict?
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2007, 16:01:59 pm »
Howdy!
So...I can't figure him out. He did it again last night except it was for 2 hours this time.  :-\

I gave him some Tylenol before bed and when he woke in the night (7 hours later). But I'm not sure that helped as he started crying hard 30 minutes after I put him back down. When I went to him he was on his tummy at the end of the crib - unswaddled. Maybe it's the new mobiliity?? He's been rolling all over!

new mum - I know what you are saying about too much sleep but I don't think that's it b/c he averages between 12 to 15 hours sleep in a 24 hour period. (I actually log his sleep hours on an excel spreadsheet - I'm a bit obsessive about his sleep  :P) He rarely gets over 10 hour sleep at night and usually gets at least 3 hours of naps in the day.

Another question. What to do if he wakes at 3pm from his last nap? 4 hours before bed is too long, I'm afraid. Last night he woke at 3pm so I nursed him at 6:10 and he was in bed a bit before 6:30pm. He fussed and fussed for quite awhile. I'm not totally sure that he would have fallen asleep b/c we heard something fall in another room and thought it was in his so I went in. Once he saw me he wouldn't resettle. He would be quiet for about 10 minutes when I would leave and then he would start to fuss and then scream. Finally he started to do his 'overtired' scream - this highpitched, crazy-sounding scream. I ended up nursing him to sleep - this is the only way to calm him when he is this overtired. (I know it's AP...)

Anyway...should I have put him down at 6pm instead?

Thanks!
Jaci
Mom to Tanner Miles (born 10.13.06) and DS2 (due 10.24.09)

Offline NiknLily

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Re: Timing - how strict?
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2007, 18:54:16 pm »
I battled for 3 months when we lost the catnap with bed time, every night would take between 1-2hrs to get her to go to sleep, it was horrible.  I don't know if I finally started getting things right or if she just grew into her new routine but suddenly she started being able to cope with bedtime at 7pm again.  However I learnt my lesson too late, I now put her down between 3.15 & 3.5hrs after she wakes from last nap as this is as long as she can cope with.  So I would suggest doing the same.  Put him down at the latest time he can cope with, without getting overtired even if this does bring bedtime down to 6pm.  It wont be every night as most likely his last nap will vary in time & length some days long, some short, some early, some late.  I have found however that this does have some effect on her am wake up time but things are beginning to settle and its now between 6.30 and 7am, which I can cope with.

I'm sure some LO's sail through dropping the catnap, but for us it has meant that I've had to really relax about naps and bedtime and just roll with it.  In hind sight tho' it has been good for me, although EASY always worked superbly for us I was rather a control freak over it was was a bit of a slave to the routine, now I feel as tho' EASY is working for me, not me working on EASY  ;D

Re his new mobility I would say as you suspect, thats probably got a lot to do with the night wakings and its not suprising it takes some time for him to resettle as he has had a good long sleep, so most likely is just not tired enough to go to sleep any sooner.  Its great to be able to nurse to sleep on the odd occasion when needs must, DD was 1yr old on Tuesday and after failing to go to sleep was still bouncing all over daddy at 9.30pm  :D so I took her up and fed her to sleep, 15mins and she was out cold.  I would say tho, although you already know, try not to do it too often particularly when he wakes in night as its incredible how quickly this could become the new reason he wakes in the night.


Offline Grace's Mom

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Re: Timing - how strict?
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2007, 22:33:43 pm »
I completely agree with new mom  ;D ;D ;D

In re: Habit forming....it only takes 3 days for a good or bad habit to form!  :o :)

Have a lovely evening ladies.  :-*
I am so in love with my husband and adore my precious Grace

Grace April 2006
Blog: http://graceadelyn.blogspot.com/

Offline Tanners Mom

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Re: Timing - how strict?
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2007, 22:54:35 pm »
Oh boy - three months? Well - in hindsight, I guess that's how long I've been trying to work with EASY and get a consistent routine and sleep. But like my Mom always reminds me: 'babies aren't predictable'.

new mum - what would you do when it took your DD 1-2 hours to go to sleep at night? I don't know any other way but to nurse him to sleep. I haven't had to do it every night this week but a few times (he just dropped the catnap this week).

If I bring the bedtime forward to say 6pm and then he wakes at 6am....doesn't that bring forward his 1st nap and then 2nd nap and then bedtime again? Or would I try to get in a catnap on those days?

I am like you and tend to be a slave to the routine. Sometimes I resent it b/c I just want to get OUT!

Tanner hasn't EVER slept all the way through the night. He always wakes once and I nurse him. His pediatrician told me that he doesn't need it anymore but I have NO idea how to wean him of it. I keep hoping that he'll just start sleeping through and not need it anymore. I would love it though - I average about 5 hours at night (in chunks of course) and it's just not enough - I feel chronically tired.

OK...so now I'm nervous about him forming a bad habit. The last three nights in a row I've had to go back to him and nurse him AGAIN to sleep in the middle of the night. Again - I don't know what else to do. He goes nuts and just screams and screams. No amount of soothing helps. If/when he does this for naps I just take him out and let him play for a bit and then try again. But I'm not going to do that at bedtime or in the middle of the night.

Thanks for the replies Melissa and new mum!
~Jaci
Jaci
Mom to Tanner Miles (born 10.13.06) and DS2 (due 10.24.09)

Offline NiknLily

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Re: Timing - how strict?
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2007, 11:36:13 am »
Hi Jaci
When it took 1-2hrs to get her to go to sleep I would just stick it out, she was too old for PU/PD at this point and sleeps in a hammock so cant stand up in it so there was no chance to just use the PD part.  I would just sit in her room with her reassuring with my voice, I would occasionally sit her up and give her a hug when she got really upset, found out too late its OK to use ear plugs  ::).  I used to worry that what I was doing was no better than CIO but as I was there in the room with her she was not feeling abandoned, and I reassured her when needed, which is the whole ethos of Tracys sleep techniques. 

I was determined not to resort to AP but what actually happened was she eventually became dependant on my presence to go to sleep and it started to escalate into her needing to be touched to go to sleep.  I then had to do gradual withdrawal to get out of the room.  Thankfully I now put her down awake and leave and she goes of no problem within 5-10mins.  So you see  AP can happen even when you don't realise!

In answer to bringing bed to 6pm and he possibly waking at 6am, yes this will bring your whole day forward, otherwise you would end up starting the day overtired before first nap.  This is what I was referring to when I said I have relaxed with it.  If she wakes at 6am first nap is 9am if she wakes at 7am first nap is 10am, and anywhere in between.  You might think that this would result in the days just cycling backwards, starting and ending earlier and earlier, but somehow this doesn't happen.  I did have a few days of 5.30am wake ups, not pretty  :o but it was just a couple.  Somehow things just balance out and it has taken a few months but wake ups are getting more regular again.  I would try to get a little catnap in if you can on the very early days, DD just wasn't having any of it tho when I tried that so after a while I just gave up on that idea.

I actually used PU/PD on dd for night wakings.  Again it isn't much fun especially at 4/5 in the morning but once they don't wake anymore, wow what bliss  ;D I would suggest trying W2S first before PU/PD, it's much easier on you, and as you are going to be woken up anyway you might as well give it a shot and get to him before he wakes.  He does have to wake at the same time every night tho for this to really work.  I would say the reason he is getting so upset when not going straight back to sleep and you are having to feed 2nd time is that this is how he thinks he gets back to sleep in the night and gets very angry to still be awake.

I really would try W2S first (if he wakes same time each night) you need to be successful 3 nights running to break the habit and if this doesn't work try PU/PD.  Make sure you adapt it for his age, choose a good time for you to start, and once again stick with it.  All you need to bear in mind is you need to be as consistant with the new technique as the old.  Oh yes get some ear plugs.

Good luck
newmum


Offline Tanners Mom

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Re: Timing - how strict?
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2007, 20:48:42 pm »
Hi new mum!
Thanks for the reply. One of the lovely mods over at the sleep boards has been helping me with some previous sleep issues to Tanner so I actually just asked her this morning what her opinion is too. I'm really afraid of pu/pd. I just don't feel confident about it. Maybe I could get that way......I definitely need to re-read the chapter in BWSAYP.

I would love to try w2s but he doesn't wake at the same time. Bummer.

Anyway...I really appreciate your reply and the information and most important, for caring! :-*

~Jaci
Jaci
Mom to Tanner Miles (born 10.13.06) and DS2 (due 10.24.09)

Offline Tanners Mom

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Re: Timing - how strict?
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2007, 16:16:11 pm »
Hey girls!
Just a quick update for you! Tanner fell asleep by himself for the past three nights!  ;D ;D I'm so thrilled!!

He did wake at 2:30am for three nights in a row and then 1am and then last night at 2:30am again. If that continues - I may try w2s.

Thanks again for the advice, support and encouragement!
~Jaci
Jaci
Mom to Tanner Miles (born 10.13.06) and DS2 (due 10.24.09)

Offline NiknLily

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Re: Timing - how strict?
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2007, 20:02:40 pm »
Thats great news, so pleased for you  ;D

Funny thing for last 3 nights Lily has struggled to get to sleep.  First night I had to go back in and be there till she fell asleep, next night she fell asleep for 15mins then woke up and fussed for 10-15 mins before settling.  Tonight it has just taken me 2hrs to get her to sleep, gave her some calpol and she finally went to sleep, not sure if it was that what did it or she was just plain knackered by that point   :-\  Got an injection tomorrow, so that could be another fun bedtime, ho hum!