Author Topic: 6 month old seems to have forgotten how to sleep! Please help!  (Read 2250 times)

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Offline Tandia

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I'd really appreciate some help with the massive issues my DS seems to recently have with sleep.  I'll try to give all the details which may help you to advise (so this will be a long post - sorry!), and please let me know if I've missed anything.

DS is coming up to 6 and a half months and has been on a (relatively flexible) EASY routine since one week old.  Routine lnow ooks something like this, although the napping part is very unreliable and times will get shifted back a bit if DS wakes late due to a particularly bad night (I can't bring myself to wake him as I need the sleep too!)
8am - BF
9 - Breakfast
10/10.30 - nap - usually only get 45 mins, but sometimes 1 1/2 hours
12 - BF followed by lunch
1.30 (ish) - nap - aim for 1 1/2 - 2 hours, often only 45 mins
4 - BF
Cat nap in here if needed (and able to get him to have it!)
6.30 - Dinner
7 - Bath
7.30 - BF/Bottle of expressed milk
8 - Bed

This post could also have gone on the naps board, as his naps are so unreliable, but as I'm more worried about night wakings at the moment, and these are horrendous at the moment (DH and I are both so exhausted), I've put it here.   I wouldn't be surprised if naps were the source of the problem though, I just can't work it out, but if they are, I've no idea how to fix them.

DS used to always go down really easily for the first nap, but rarely slept more than 45 mins.  He would wake up crying, but could rarely be resettled, and once he was up, would seem happy enough, so I figured that was enough sleep.  But today he was so tired from a bad night's sleep that he slept about 1 1/2 hours for his morning nap, and woke up cooing and smiling rather than crying, so perhaps he has never been getting enough morning sleep. 

The lunchtime nap has always been a challenge to get him down for, but he does sleep sometimes sleep longer than 45 mins, and can sometimes be resettled if he wakes at that point (it makes a massive difference if I'm already in the room waiting to resettle him).

Recently though, all the rules have changed - he regularly starts screaming when I take him into his room to nap, but appears to be fine if I bring him back into the hall, or if I take him into his room when it is light.  So it seems to be an objection to napping rather than anything else being wrong.  He fights me really hard - arching his back away from me, which makes PU/PD (which I have started trying recently) really hard, as I can't comfort him by picking him up, but he screams even harder when I put him down.  I did it for 40 mins a couple of days ago, and managed to get him down, but I'm not sure that he didn't just scream himself to the point of exhaustion, rather than that PU/PD worked.

Bedtime routine is bath, creaming and dressing (he has severe eczema so needs a lot of moisturising and often steroid cream too), story if he's not too fed up, BF/bottle then bed.  I never let him fall asleep on the breast though, and as he still takes some time to get his wind (gas) up, he always gets put down awake.

He breastfeeds for between 15 mins and half an hour, although sometimes a bit longer at night if he's really tired.  Generally he feeds on one side, although sometimes he has some from the other side at night, when he takes a big feed (8oz if he has a bottle) and it helps stop me being engorged in the morning.

He is pretty easy to settle in the evening, and doesn't do any of the same screaming as in the day, so I know he's not afraid of the dark or his room.  He will often chatter a bit, but with the dummy (paci) will settle well, and happily fall asleep on his own.  However, between then and the morning he now seems to wake at best 3 times at worst more than 10.  He will often scream (rather than just cry) when he wakes, and appears to be in pain as he arches his back kicks his legs and wriggles all over.  But if you take him out of the room or give him the dummy he seems totally calm, and with the dummy will usually resettle very quickly.  However, he will then often wake 20 mins later when he hits the jerk and for some reason can't settle himself.  I don't think his cry is ever a mantra cry, but then I don't think I know his mantra cry or even if he has one.

He is much harder to resettle without the dummy and I am quite worried that it has become a prop, although sometimes back patting does work (shushing now seems to keep him awake, although it worked very well when he was younger).  We don't do any other accidental parenting that I'm aware of - he's never been rocked or fed to sleep.

He may be teething at the moment, but the major sleep problems have been going on for a few weeks, and I am sure he hasn't been teething throughout (there was a period of excessive drooling, but that stopped a few days ago).  His eczema has also been really bad, but last weekend improved after we started a new cream, and there hasn't been a corresponding improvement in sleep.

I'm just so lost as to know where we're going wrong.  Every nap is emotionally harrowing, and I find myself holding my breath hoping he won't wake too early from it.  At night I lie awake listening for him, and think I hear him when he's actually asleep cos I'm so exhausted.  I have tried so hard not to do accidental parenting and to teach him sensible independent sleep, and I feel so hopeless now that it all seems to have gone wrong.  I would really appreciate some help/advice/support, as I'm at the end of my tether and don't know what to do next.

Thanks in advance.

Joshua's (exhausted) mummy

Offline EsMum

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Re: 6 month old seems to have forgotten how to sleep! Please help!
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2007, 23:07:03 pm »
Hi Joshua's mum,

I'm no expert, but have you thought about dropping the cat nap and getting him on two naps a day?  Perhaps pushing the second nap a little later is the way to go as well.  Once you sort out his daytime sleep his night sleep should get better.

Also the length of his naps should keep getting longer the older he gets.  My LO had her first long nap at 5mo and got consistently longer and longer - unfortunately it didn't happen overnight.

Hope that helps a little!
Michelle.


Offline Colin Macs Mom

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Re: 6 month old seems to have forgotten how to sleep! Please help!
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2007, 23:21:03 pm »
Hi Tandia, welcome to BW  :)   Sorry to hear that sleep hasn't been so dreamy lately, haha.  ;)

Firstly, like Michelle said, naps need adjusting of all kinds. Good daytime sleep leads to good night sleep - as well rested LO will sleep better at night. I also think it's time to drop the catnap. You can check in the EASY forum if you like, there are examples in there for each age range, but this is what I was doing with DS when he was that age, we also did an 8-8 EASY:

8:00am wake and bottle
9:00 breakfast solids
10:30 nap
12:00 wake and bottle
12:45 lunch solids
3:00 nap
4:30/5 wake and bottle
6:00 dinner solids
7:00 bath, books, change, etc. and top-up
7:45 bed

You want nap #1 of the day to be shorter than #2 as it is an extension of night sleep. Nap #2 is important to keep LO on track for good night sleep. And naps absolutely need to be longer than 45 minutes. It's common to get bitten by the 45 minute nap monster, but it's important to fight it and work on extending. 45 min is not sufficient time for LO's body to get what it needs from the sleep, even if he/she appears to be happy.

Are there any other medical issues besides the eczema, like reflux or food allergies?

I'm also suspecting the the dummy is a prop. BUT, you don't want to try and make more than one change at a time so I wouldn't worry about that until you get the routine and naps ironed out.
Jessica
Mom to Colin Ronald, August 18, 2005
Spirited + Reflux =  :o


Offline Tandia

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Re: 6 month old seems to have forgotten how to sleep! Please help!
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2007, 08:31:19 am »
Thanks to you both for your advice, which is so appreciated.

We had more or less dropped the cat nap, but as the naps have deteriorated and ended up being so short, he has needed it again to get through to bed without getting hysterical.  I would definitely prefer to drop it and have longer naps earlier in the day, but that is where we are struggling.  Any tips on how to manage extending his naps?  I've been reading BWSAYP on PU/PD, but still don't feel I know what to do when he screams and fights me - she says to put him down again, but then he screams harder - nothing seems to calm him.  Any suggestions?

The good news is last night was quite a bit better (Friday night means DH is better able to help, although to be fair he's a massive help in the week too) - when he woke we stayed with him for the 20 mins until he was in the deep sleep, which meant longer up, but less actual wake ups. 

He doesn't have any other medical problems, but has suffered a bit with constipation on and off (prunes work wonders though!).  We've recently found putting him down on his side rather than his back seems to make him more comfortable, I'm not sure if that is related to digestion, but we find it hard to keep him there - he is propped with a towel behind and in front, but when he cries and we go to him, he has usually ended up back on his back.  Not sure if that is part of the cause of the wakings.

I also forgot to say before - he is still swaddled for sleep - he used to scratch a lot cause of the eczema, but even though it's not so bad at the moment, we still find that he can't sleep unswaddled because he startles himself with his arms.  Unfortunately no swaddle can really hold him anymore, so getting out of it can be yet another source of night wakings!  Do you think we'd be better to try to stop the swaddle or is that just adding another problem?

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Re: 6 month old seems to have forgotten how to sleep! Please help!
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2007, 11:19:49 am »
Hi there,

All I know about extending naps is you just do it slowly, 5mins for several days and then 5mins more...it is a gradual process.  As you've seen, any faster than that and they get overtired and hard to put down.

Also PUPD didn't really work for us - apparently it can be very difficult if you are introducing it to an older child.  We have had more success with soothing in the crib.

I'll have to let the experts answer the rest of your questions!  Glad you had a bit of a better night last night.

Michelle.


Offline Colin Macs Mom

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Re: 6 month old seems to have forgotten how to sleep! Please help!
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2007, 03:54:40 am »
I think it would serve you best to post on the naps forum to get the best advice on that, or I can move this thread over there if you like. Have you checked out the PU/PD board as well?

I also think it might serve you well to try the Aussie swaddle. It's a different way of doing it that's nearly impossible for LO to escape from. There are instructions in the FAQ section of the Props forum if you'd like to have a look.
Jessica
Mom to Colin Ronald, August 18, 2005
Spirited + Reflux =  :o


Offline Tandia

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Re: 6 month old seems to have forgotten how to sleep! Please help!
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2007, 22:52:39 pm »
Thanks for all your help.  We've seen a real improvement in the naps over the last couple of days, and DS is so much happier in the day that we can see he was definitely over-tired before.  PU/PD really works!

Unfortunately we haven't seen a corresponding improvement in his night wakings.  Although staying with him for 20 mins means we get him to the deep sleep stage, he is still waking at best every 3 hours and at worst every 45 mins.  We can't figure out what is causing him to wake so often as his night sleep used to be much better.  He slept through the night a number of times, and when he didn't he used to only wake once or twice.  He also used to sleep in the evening without ever waking before his late evening feed, but his evening sleep has also really deteriorated.

We're pretty sure he's not hungry - he hasn't fed at night for some time, and he isn't even starving for his morning feed.  He does seem quite uncomfortable when he wakes - he squirms quite a bit, but we can't figure out what is bothering him, and it can't be anything too severe as he does resettle pretty easily most of the time.  Does anyone have any ideas?

We have used the Aussie swaddle (I found it on here previously when we were having problems with his scratching because of the eczema), but he can escape from it now!  We've bought a Swaddleme, which doesn't contain him as well, but is at least a lot easier to reswaddle with, and so he doesn't get really woken up when we redo it.

Thanks again for all your help and any ideas about what might be triggering the night wakings or what we can do to prevent them would be really great.

Joshua's (marginally less exhausted) mummy

Offline Colin Macs Mom

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Re: 6 month old seems to have forgotten how to sleep! Please help!
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2007, 17:26:08 pm »
I know you said before that he could he be teething, have you noticed anything in his mouth yet?  What does he have going on developmentally? 

Could he be getting gas or tummy upset from solids?
Jessica
Mom to Colin Ronald, August 18, 2005
Spirited + Reflux =  :o


Offline Tandia

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Re: 6 month old seems to have forgotten how to sleep! Please help!
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2007, 21:20:27 pm »
There is a tiny speck of white on his bottom gum, but he doesn't seem to be chewing or dribbling as much as he has before, so I'm guessing he's not suffering with teething at the moment. 

We do wonder if it is his tummy bothering him, but can't work out why, or what we can do to help.  It's not wind (gas), as he still has some trouble with wind, so we spend some time every night making sure we've got it all up, and we know the signs if he has any.  It could be related to solids, but doesn't seem to be linked with any particular food - could it be just general difficulty with digestion?  He does seem to be more comfortable when we prop him on his side, but then when he wakes we usually find he has slid onto his back, and we're not sure if that's the cause of the waking.

Developmentally he seems quite slow!  He's only just rolling front to back, and doesn't roll back to front at all yet, and there are no signs of any desire to crawl.  As he's swaddled there is very little he can do movement wise in bed though, so he doesn't get himself stuck or into any awkward positions.

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Re: 6 month old seems to have forgotten how to sleep! Please help!
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2007, 21:40:28 pm »
Quote from: Tandia
It could be related to solids, but doesn't seem to be linked with any particular food - could it be just general difficulty with digestion? 

Yep - sometimes it takes a bit for LO's system to adjust to digesting real food. It's more complex than formula or breastmilk, so introducing that can be stressful on a "virgin" system. It's just one of those things that has to happen! It may help to reduce the amount you're offering for a bit or just offer solids at breakfast until he adjusts to it more.

As for the developmental stuff, he may be working on rolling the other way in his head so to speak. Sometimes developmental wakings can occur well before any signs of the actual event.
Jessica
Mom to Colin Ronald, August 18, 2005
Spirited + Reflux =  :o


Offline Tandia

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Re: 6 month old seems to have forgotten how to sleep! Please help!
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2007, 14:46:59 pm »
Just wanted to come back and say thanks for all your help.  We saw a real improvement over the last week or so, and really thought we'd cracked it, but we've just seen a deterioration in the last few days again.  Since all your advice the day time naps are so much better, and Joshua is much happier in the day, but it doesn't always seem to lead to better nightime sleep.  I'm starting to think that there may be a medical cause to the problem at night, and am going to seek a bit of advice on the colic, reflux and gas board, as I think the problem may well relate to one of them.

You've been a huge help here, and I really appreciate it.

Thanks

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Re: 6 month old seems to have forgotten how to sleep! Please help!
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2007, 19:00:22 pm »
I'm glad your naps have improved, and I hope your nights get better soon.  :)

Michelle.


Offline Colin Macs Mom

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Re: 6 month old seems to have forgotten how to sleep! Please help!
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2007, 19:08:54 pm »
Regression is normal, to a point.... but it sounds like you're on top of things.  :-*
Jessica
Mom to Colin Ronald, August 18, 2005
Spirited + Reflux =  :o