poor day naps since 3 mths

[angpang]

Help someone!
I had a great little sleeper from 9wks to 3mths, then everything went hay wire and not sure why. She's now 25 weeks, and typically only has one nap of 1 1/2 hrs a day and the other two naps only 20 min or 45 min! I think I've muffed the waketime badly somehow and just can't get back on track. She goes to sleep fine on her own, but if she wakes early seems to just cry. I don't know whether to go for the average waketime for her age or try to follow her tired signs. Problem is- she seems tired a LOT of the time, so it's hard to accurately gauge when she's the right amount of tired to put to bed to get a good length of sleep- if that makes sense?! I kind of aim for around the 2 hr mark. Her feed times are 6am, 10, 2, 5, top up and bed by 7, then dreamfeed at 10pm (roughly). I try to get 2hrs sleep for the first 2 naps, then a catnap before 5pm.  Any suggestions??!!

[dtrias]

Angpang
Most babies start having sleep issues between 3 to 6 months.  Its when they are transition for infant sleep, to a more adult sleep pattern(less rem more deep sleep)  It may not be you, it could be a developmental thing.  You need to remember that sleep deprivation is cumulative so an overtired baby cant get back on track. Try an earlier bedtime for a few days to see if it helps the naps. If you find your lo just ends up waking earlier for the day abandon the plan as you dont want to encourage early wake ups.  Dont look at A time.  Look at the tired signs.  One mom suggested to me that a 30 min nap can only support 1 hr of A time and i found this to be about right at 6 months.  Remember the average A times are for babies who are getting proper naps, not 30 min cap naps.  If she wakes crying shes still tired. less than 30 mins is overstim/overtired for sure.  45 mins is tricky as that could be not tired enough or over tired.   If your lo is easy to put down for naps(ie it doesnt take 30 mins to get her to do a 30 min stretch) i would just put her down more often. mine survived on 5X30 min naps for 2 months before i had any luck extending.  Yours at least has one decent one under their belt so it should help with the overtired factor. 
good luck

[malialeanne]

Hi there. Agreed, 3 months is a crazy time for sleep. A times change so quickly and it's tough to keep up.

2 hours is a long A time for a 3 month old. 1 1/2 hours is more average. Agree with the pp that you should not try and keep her up if she seems extra tired.

[angpang]

she's just about 6 mths, not 3 by the way! I'll try to focus on the tired signs. She is definitely easy to get to sleep on her own- within about 20 mi. Last night I put her to bed 6:15pm and she slept till 6:30am so we have a nice start to the day... Will see how it goes during the day...

[malialeanne]

Hi, sorry about that. I guess my head got stuck on "3 months" because of your post title. Congrats on the great night sleep. Let us know how it goes.

[Layla]

Hi there

At 6 months I actually stopped reading cues and went by the clock... well of course unless she had a really crappy short nap and needed an earlier bedtime (which is the BEST way to cue overtiredness, in my opinion  )

So your lo should be able to handle up to 2.5hrs A time (2-2.5). THe morning A time is usually the shortest so keep it at 2hrs.

[dtrias]

I agree with everyone else about the A time.  I also find the more active the baby the less A time they can actually handle.  At 6 months my cousins textbook tot could handle 2.5 hours of A time where as my spirited lo could only handle 2. ALso agree about the clock watching.  Cues get harder to read as they get older.  hope it improves.

[angpang]

In regard to 2 to 2 1/2 hr waketime- does that include settling to sleep in bed- i.e put in bed at around 2 1/4 and asleep by 2 1/2 hr? I haven't tried that A time for more than a few days yet, as she couldn't make it, but maybe I should try for say a week? I half wonder if she's tired from so much catnapping but could make more waketime if she was more rested overall. I feel I'm reinforcing her catnapping if I put her to bed too early for a nap... I've noticed in the last few days she only sleeps 20 min now for her third nap whereas that used to typically be always 45 min or 1 hr. I she just getting closer to needing only 2 naps? Oh- so confusing- just want to have her happy and rested again and not have to forever be trying to figure her out!

[malialeanne]

Yes, A time includes winding down. If you are aiming for 2.5 hours A time you should aim to have her back in her crib within that time. When we get A times right the time it takes dd to settle in her crib is minimal.

You're correct that you may be reinforcing the overtiredness and catnapping by putting her down too early. At first extending A times is challenging because babies are often tired from short naps prior to the realization that A times need to get longer. This is why some babies do best when A times are extended gradually, esp if they are overtired to begin with. However, if you stick with it, she will begin to nap longer, wake more rested, stay up more easily for subsequent A times, etc.

Babies typically drop the catnap between 6-8 months so she could be getting ready to drop it. When you get the hang of longer A times and the first 2 naps extend, you may find that you can't get the catnap in without pushing bedtime very late, or she may refuse it altogether.

HTH,
Malia

[angpang]

I'm back again-I've been working on getting her in bed for first nap by 1 3/4 hr, but after several days, she still has only 45min. She plays in the bed and will only go back to sleep after 45 min or an hour have passed. Lately, I've noticed that the times she does go back to sleep after waking early in first nap, she then only has 45 min for second nap. (After putting her down about 2 hrs again for second nap). Previously she was having short first nap but then almost without fail having 2hr for the second one. What have I done now- seems she's just swapped over which nap she'll shorten! And again- has shortened the third nap to 20 min (from 45 min) for a few days now!!! IS she wanting to stretch waketimes after all? I think I'll try for 2hrs, then 2 1/4 hrs first and second waketimes a few days and see what happens... Any ideas?

[malialeanne]

Hi there. It may be that you've reached her "threshold" for total sleep, so extending the first nap results in a shorter p.m. nap. If she is sleeping 12 hours at night you are not likely to get 4.5 hours of napping during the day (2 longer naps plus a catnap are more likely for babies sleeping 10-11 hours per night). Between 1-2 hours is a reasonable nap length for babies who are sleeping well at night, as long as they wake pretty happy and seem OK during the day.

Sleeping so well at night, and waking up and "playing" after 45 minutes, leads me to think that she is really ready to extend. Unless you are noticing clear signs of overtiredness (agitation, "wired" behavior, jerky movements--yawns and eye rubbing are pretty normal for most babies and don't always mean overtired) I would aim for at least 2 hours of A times, and try to gently stretch. Most six month olds can handle between 2 and 3 hours, esp after a good night's sleep. (My spirited dd was doing 2 hours at 4 months with good naps.)

Your plan for A times seems good, but if you notice no change in naps with 2.25 hours A time (again, watching for overtiredness) you may want to try for 2.5 hours. Especially important while you're extending--keep the last portion of A times low-key, reading in her room, snuggling in a chair, etc.

[angpang]

Thanks for reply- will go for few days on 2 and 2 1/4 hrs. She seems tired enough at 2 hrs A time in the morning, although definietely not to the point of being really cranky and irritable. When she wakes at 45 min for first nap, she doesn't even cry- it's only because I check on her that I know she's awake and playing, you'd think if she was tired she'd be upset and crying?! Will get back to you again when we see how next few days pan out....

[angpang]

P.S
 She sleeps about 11 hrs at night, so may/may ot need third nap in the day?! Not sure yet...

[malialeanne]

The catnap can often be dropped when A times approach 3 hours. With 2 hour A times and 1.5 - 2 hour naps, nap 2 ends between 2 and 3, so it's a long time until bedtime with no catnap.

Let me know how it goes.

[angpang]

HI I'm back again. Still no improvement. I've been doing 2hr waketime for first nap, then 2 1/4 hr next waketime.  She's nearly always having 1hr nap for the first nap and even the second nap isn't good now either. She had a good 2hr nap for her first nap yesterday, but maybe only because she woke 5am instead of 6am and went back to sleep at 5:40 for 20 min before first feed. She slept 8-10am then. The third nap especially is getting harder and harder- she won't go to sleep till around 3hrs A time and a few days not at all!! I'm happy to try for say 2 1/2 and 3 hr waketime being as she's almost 6 1/2 mth, but I'm just worried whether she'll do OK. Seems she's a good sleeper when I just get the waketime right! Should I take the plunge yet? Don't know how long to persist with 3 naps, when she may be ready for 2 to solve the problem???