Too short p.m. nap for spirited baby

[Sugarmama]

Hi there,
I recently saw a posting on spirited babies and short naps, but I can't find it again to add this there. Oops.

Josie is 22 weeks, on a standard 4-hr. EASY. I have always struggled with her naps (except the catnap is fine), and have had to soothe her back to sleep between 1-any number of times. She won't do sh/pat or pu/pd, so we use hands-on chest and legs.

Just recently her morning naps have seemed to be smoothing out. Whereas she would have frequent fussy wakings after the first 30-40-min. marks, and I would soothe her back down until she'd been in her crib for the full two hours, she now wakes at around 1.5 hr. babbling happily, so I let her get up and play quietly until the 11 a.m. feed. She might go down for this first a.m. nap at 8:45-9. Sometimes she does still need help getting back down to sleep, but it's manageable.

Her cues say she's ready for nap 2 between 12:45-1, at 12:45 I take her to her room and begin the calm wind-down to catch the cues when they start. We read quietly in the rocker. Then after the cues, go to the crib, swaddle, darken the room together, rock for a few min., and go into crib awake and settled down to sleep once in the crib.

She is swaddled tightly to aid in napping. Swaddling her gets her really worked up, so I recently started using a paci during the swaddle to keep her calm. Then I take it out once we get back to the rocker.

I have tried to keep the last 30 min. of A time before nap 2 calm. For example, if we might walk in the stroller, and she looks sooo laid back. Or she plays with some soft, non-noisy toys. Or ... you get the drift. But still, at 30 min.-45 min. she is screaming. It takes a LONG time sometimes to settle her back down. Today, I had to spend basically the remainder of a 2-hr. nap after 30 min. in her room with her with hands-on chest and legs. And she's 5.5 mo., and we've been doing this since she was 6 wks. (longer naps now, of course). Now, there have been a handful of times when she's slept through an entire 2 hrs., and I celebrate those.

But any ideas on making those more standard?

I worry a bit, because she hasn't even made it out of swaddling yet. She starts daycare this summer--August--but I'd like to take her there occasionally from now until then just to get to know the gal, get used to being there, etc., and I know a daycare provider can't do what I do each p.m. nap, you know? That's a slightly different issue, I know, but you can see why I'd like to get this problem solved now.

Thanks so much for any help.

[malialeanne]

Your routine sounds very good. Congratulations on your hard work. Doesn't it feel great when naps start to extend?

I know the p.m nap is frustrating, but your dd is on track for her age. The a.m. nap "develops" at 3-4 months and the p.m. nap develops between 5-8 months. Keep working with her and she will most likely start to extend it on her own.

Have you tried w2s, or going in *before* she wakes and gently holding down her limbs? For some spirited babies (including mine) the key is keeping them from fully waking in the first place.

Many babies are still swaddled at 5 months, and a lot of moms keep the swaddle for naps after ditching it for nighttime.

HTH,
Malia

[Sugarmama]

Did I speak too soon about good a.m. naps?

Okay, today was the first day I didn’t use a paci to put my daughter back to sleep in the a.m., as she woke at 6 and talked to herself until 6:40. We usually pacify until 7, but she had slept from 7 last night until 6 this a.m., and I read you should let them get up after 11 hrs. rather than resort to the paci—that 11 hrs. is enough sleep.

I figured she’d be ready for nap 1 early, so at 8:30 I took her upstairs and started wind-down so as not to miss cues. (She’s spirited and swaddled tightly—not put to sleep with paci.) Well, as soon as I started wind-down, she was cranky, so I sent her off to sleep! She was down by 8:45. (This is actually sometimes her normal naptime, but the wind-down def. Started early.)

But at 9:20, she was up and crying, so I went up. Whereas it used to take me a max of 20 min. to send her back to sleep with our soothing (hands-on swaddled chest and legs), I had to stay up there with hands on her until 10:45. She alternately screamed/looked up and babbled. Was she looking at her bright butterflies painted on the wall? Are these going to distract her now that she likes to babble at toys?

I covered up the butterflies with a sheet. Her room is already darkened, but it’s not pitch black. We have a couple of night lights, and during the day, some light does filter through the curtains/ door cracks. I hate to darken totally, as she starts daycare mid-summer, and she won’t have darkness there.

Thoughts? I know this is just one bad a.m. nap, but it took on the personality of the last couple of p.m. naps so closely that I need some support. Thanks!

Good idea about w2s. How much earlier than her 35 min. wake time would I go in and rouse her/hold her down? What specifically do you think I should do, given my description.

I really appreciate your help. I feel low right now--you know--why does everyone else have an independently napping baby, and I don't?

[malialeanne]

Well, we have a good napper but not-so-good night sleeper. If it's not one thing it's another. Your lo will have some off days where naps are crazy, but overall it will start to settle down as she gets the hang of it.

I won't pretend to be an expert on w2s as it never worked for us. It's easiest and generally works best if your lo wakes consistently at the same time--if wake ups are all over the place it's hard to time it correctly. Someone on the gen sleep board could probably give excellent info on doing w2s correctly.

What we did was go into her room about 5-10 mins before she usually stirred and gently patted at the first peep, before she woke fully. Then we started holding back and not patting at the first peep but waiting to see if she needed it, and now it's rare that we need to do it at all.

Re: the darkness, that's a tough one. If she's spirited the light in her room could be distracting. Since it's still a couple of months before daycare starts, you could try a bit more darkness to see if that helps, and gradually wean her off a few weeks before daycare begins by letting a bit more light in each day until it's just semi-dark but not pitch black. It would be best if she could at least nap in sem-darkness at daycare, so hopefully they will be able to accomodate that.

GTG, let me know how the rest of the day goes!

[Sugarmama]

Hi there,
 I am not usually posting so much during the day, but I admit that I am having a hard one! Her p.m. nap was pretty bad, too. Same as the first, almost exactly. Except this time, I put a sheet over her butterflies, so she didn't babble much at them--mostly just cried for an hour and a half.

The darkness--yes, I'll talk to DH about getting it darker in there. Now that it's summer, the afternoon light especially beats through the drapes and causes it to be a bit too light, I think. But it's hard when you go in to help when it's so dark--I can hardly see. But I guess that's the least of my problems, huh?

[Sugarmama]

I forgot to ask you one more thing: Her nap was so bad this a.m.--she only slept 35 min. I took her out of the crib at 10:45. She started nodding off at 11:45 while drinking her bottle. But I held out and didn't put her down for nap 2 until 12:30. I kept her awake with soft play and a Baby Einstein video. When I took her up for wind-down at 12:30, she was immediately fussy, so I sent her down. Is this appropriate to hold out this way, as I did?

See, my routine is changing a bit, because I didn't use the paci to put her back to sleep after 11 hrs. of sleep when she woke at 6:15 a.m. this morn. She played until 6:40, and when she cried, I got her up rather than send her back down for 20 min. using a paci. I read that it's okay to get them up after 11 hrs. of sleep. And, as sometimes she needs a paci re-insert, I'm trying to reserve paci use for those morns when she's up before 11 hrs. to avoid prop-dom--lol.
Thanks!

[malialeanne]

I don't know that everyone would agree, but I generally don't put dd down more than a 1/2 earlier than her normal nap time. This way I'm able to respond to cues while still keeping naps relatively consistent. 10:45 - 12:30 is an OK A time.

As long as she goes to sleep at night without the paci and you use it only occassionally, it's OK to use it in the a.m. to get a few extra minutes our of her if you want her to get up at 7--that's one of the occassions I would use it for! As long as you know she can fall asleep without out most of the time and you're not reinserting too much (you'll have do decide your personal threshold on that), it can be a useful tool for extending sleep when needed. And if she does start to look for it at sleep times you can easily wean if you're not using it too much anyway.

If you put her down at 7 and she's started to sleep though, you may need to think about your routine if you don't want her to sleep longer than 11 hours at night. She may well be very rested at 6 a.m. and ready to get up then if she's just had 11 hours, so it's good to have a plan of action for when that happens. Also, keep in mind that around 14 hours is on the high end of average sleep totals for this age, so if she's sleeping 11 hours at night you are not likely to get 2 2-hour naps and a catnap.

[Sugarmama]

Hi there, helpful info!

Thank goodness her p.m. nap today is going better. I needed a lift!, as her a.m. nap today was a repeat of yesterday.

I had a couple of questions based on your post:
You said:
As long as you know she can fall asleep without out most of the time and you're not reinserting too much (you'll have do decide your personal threshold on that), it can be a useful tool for extending sleep when needed. And if she does start to look for it at sleep times you can easily wean if you're not using it too much anyway.

That last sentence--do you mean it's okay not to give the paci to her during naps but to continue in the a.m.? Or, are you saying that if she seems to be looking for her paci during her nap wake-ups that it might be a problem? Would moving her head from side to side and making a sucking motion indicate she's wants a paci? Or, do all babies do this with wake-ups? I guess I'm worried about confusing her. Still, when she wakes at 4 a.m., it's harrrrd to put her to sleep with other methods, as she's already had sleep, you know?

Also, the total sleep time of 14 hrs. I would like her p.m. bedtime to be 7, but it's more often 7:20-7:45 (depending on how fast she settles--she can be pretty fussy at night). So what I've been doing is expecting 11 hrs. out of her. If she sleeps that--so 6 or 6:20, depending on what bedtime was, I'll get her up. But then, should I adjust all naps accordingly? I mean, expect her to go down for Nap 1 at  8 or 8:30?

The other thing on this is, say if she wakes from 5-6 a.m. babbling happily and then at 6 starts crying? She's only "slept" until 5, then, right, so can I try to get another hour out of her?

Thanks for all your help!

[malialeanne]

Hello. What I'm saying is that it's OK to use the paci only occassionally, not for every sleep, and that works for some and keeps the lo from becoming a paci addict.

My dd does not use it during the daytime and does not use it to fall asleep at nights. But for nw and esp the early a.m. wakings, I use it. I think what you describe--reserving it for use when she wakes up earlier than you want her to--is appropriate.

DD does a lot of sucking motions almost all the time--when falling asleep and waking up--which is why I am careful with paci use as I think she could progress quicky to an addiction. But she naps and falls asleep well without it. If you're not using it for naps I wouldn't start now.

It's easiest just to pick a consistent wake-up time and stick to that. I recommend not letting her sleep past her ideal wake-up time unless you have an exceptionally bad night or bedtime. That will make naps and bedtime much more consistent also. Couting minutes or 10 minute increments of sleep gets quite confusing. If you aim for a bedtime of 7 and want 11 hours of sleep out of her, it sounds like your ideal wake up time is 6 a.m. (early! but if that works for you... ). If she typically takes 15-20 minutes of fussing before she settles, you can build that into her night so you're putting her in her crib a few minutes before you expect her to sleep, and gradually cut that time down as the fussing decreases (making sure her A times are appropriate right before sleep so that she has an easier time falling asleep).

If she wakes and babbles at 5 and you get her up at 6, she may need to go down for nap 1 about 1/2 hour early, but she might not. Just watch her cues. The hour of babbling in her bed is still *resting* time even though she's not sleeping. A lot of babes go through this phase between 4-6 months, and thankfully it passes. You want to avoid moving naps *too* early during this phase, as this could result in a shortened day and reinforce the early waking.

So, lots of info! Hope I answered your questions.

Malia